"The Baptist Faith and Message is neither a creed, nor a complete statement of our faith, nor final and infallible; nevertheless, we further acknowledge that it is the only consensus statement of doctrinal beliefs approved by the Southern Baptist Convention and such is sufficient in its current form to guide trustees in their establishment of policies and practices of entities of the Convention."
Adopted by the Messengers of the 2007 Southern Baptist Convention in San Antonio, Texas, June 13, 2007.
The above statement, adopted without opposition by the entire Executive Committee of the Southern Baptist Convention this past year, and pulled out of the 2007 Annual Book of Reports for adoption by the entire Southern Baptist Convention, passed by a 58% vote of the voting messengers in San Antonio, Texas.
The trustees of our agencies are elected by the Southern Baptist Convention. The convention cannot 'instruct' autonomous agencies what they can, or cannot do, but I have repeatedly stated that as a trustee of the International Mission Board, I am accountable to the Southern Baptist Convention for my actions on the International Mission Board, for the Southern Baptist Convention elected me, not the board of trustees of the IMB (at least I think: wink). Allow me to review the events of the past year and a half and show how this very important decision by the SBC to adopt the Executive Committee's statement on the BFM 2000 has now brought us full circle.
The Beginnings of the Controversy
The controversy at the International Mission Board began in November of 2005, when I questioned the authority of my fellow trustees to implement new doctrinal 'policies' that (1). Rejected Southern Baptist missionaries who possessed a 'private' prayer language, based upon a doctrinal belief that 'tongues' were not a gift given by God to any Christian for private edification, and (2). Rejected Southern Baptist missionary candidates who were baptized in churches, or by individuals, that 'did not believe in eternal security' even though those missionary candidates already were members of a Southern Baptist church that had 'accepted' their baptism, and the candidates themselves were baptized by immersion, trusting Christ alone for salvation.
I asked privately, repeatedly, and eventually publicly the following question:
'Who has given us trustees at the IMB the authority to reject missionary candidates from our cooperating Southern Baptist churches based upon a refusal by those missionary candidates to conform to a specific interpretation of a tertiary doctrinal issue that the only consensus Southern Baptist confession of faith, the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message, is silent about?
The Tipping Point Is Reached
The post that upset so many people was written in December of 2005, one entitled Crusading Conservatives vs. Cooperating Conservatives: The Battle for the Future of the Southern Baptist Convention. The quote that summarizes that post is this two sentence paragraph:
The Southern Baptist Convention, through the trustees of our boards and agencies, is narrowing the parameters of fellowship and cooperation to the point that real, genuine conservatives are being excluded as unfit for service in the SBC.
Our convention hated liberalism twenty years ago and we expelled it from our midst, but at this hour we better hate legalism and Fundamentalism as much as we did the former liberalism or we will find ourselves so fractured and fragmented that we no longer have the ability to cooperate about anything, including missions
Again, the above comment was written a over a year and a half ago, right here on this blog. My feelings have not changed.
A Conservative Foot Soldier Wakes Up From a Ten Year Nap
I was a foot soldier for the conservative resurgence in the early 1980's, driving Paul Pressler around Oklahoma, rallying people to go to Dallas to take back the Bible. I was elected as Chairman of the Denominational Calendar Committee of the Southern Baptist Convention in 1994 and still have framed in my office an original copy of the program of the first Southern Baptist Convention in 1845, in Augusta, Georgia, right beside the 150th Anniversary Program of the 1995 Southern Baptist Convention with Dr. W.A. Criswell, Dr. Herschel Hobbs, and myself on the program. In 1995, I took a decade off from participating in the SBC. My four kids were ages 1 to 8, and I needed to invest time in my family, my church (which was involved in a building program), and my state. During those ten years I served two terms as Vice-President of the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma and two terms as President. During June, my wife and I would either be on vacation or in Israel, and we only attended the Southern Baptist Convention three times from 1995 to 2005. In other words, I was out of touch with the SBC.
In 2005, when I was contacted to serve as trustee of the International Mission Board, I accepted. I hadn't sought it, but I was honored to serve. During the orientation and first few meetings, I really enjoyed getting to know my fellow trustees and especially the missionaries, but I quickly began to feel like Rip Van Winkle. I had awakened to a convention that in some ways I did not recognize.
The Grand Old Lady Was Being Crippled
For example, I knew that when Dr. Jerry Rankin had been hired as President of the International Mission Board, the fact that he spoke in tongues during his private prayer times, had been raised. However, the chairman of the search committee at the time, Dr. Joel Gregory, had said that Dr. Rankin's private prayer language was not an issue. Dr. Rankin became President of the International Mission Board and quickly became one of the most respected men in our convention.
In 2005, as a new trustee, I was told that it was now deemed best by IMB trustees that Southern Baptist missionaries NOT have a private prayer language. Beside the fact that the sitting President of the IMB would have been rejected as a SBC missionary were the new policies to have been in effect during his interview process years earlier, as an IMB trustee, I felt I needed to know why this new policy prohibiting a private prayer language was needed. I asked for anecdotal evidence that there was a 'charismatic' problem on the field not being properly handled by administration or staff. I asked for the evidence time, after time, after time. I never received it.
Finally, I was told that no anecdotal evidence was needed. This was a DOCTRINAL matter and the board was implementing the policies based upon a doctrinal interpretation that a 'private prayer language' was not Biblical. Of course, I was told that 95% of Southern Baptist churches believed the way the trustees believed, and it was 'our right' to implement whatever doctrinal standard we trustees desired. Of course, now we know, according to an independent survey conducted by Lifeway, over 50% of Southern Baptist pastors believe that a private prayer langauge is a legitimate gift from God.
I affirm every Southern Baptist's right to believe that a private prayer language is not a legitimate gift -- as I do every Southern Baptist's right to believe that a private prayer language is a legitimate gift of the Spirit. What I don't affirm is a board of trustees meeting behind closed doors and adopting a 'doctrinal' policy that exceeds the Baptist Faith and Message, excluding otherwise qualified Southern Baptist missionary candidates from service.
I don't have the time to deal with my problems with the baptism policy except to say it bothered me more than the private prayer language policy. The BFM 2000 is silent on the authority of the baptizer, or the need that the baptism should take place at the hands of one who believes in 'eternal security.' The controversy at the IMB was never about baptism by any method other than immersion, but rather, the demand that the IMB tell churches what was 'an appropriate' baptism in terms of 'who' baptized the church's member. I personally believed the new policy reflected a very strong Landmark tendency - a doctrine that often threatened to divide our Southern Baptist Convention in years past, and wrenched the very important ordinance of Christ from the local church into the hands of a board of trustees of a SBC agency.
Where Were These Demands For Doctrinal Conformity Coming From?
Through various events that I have documented over the last year and a half, including my own election as a trustee of the IMB, I was under the opinion that many of the demands for doctrinal conformity were emanating from our Southern Baptist seminaries, particularly one seminary President who believed that orthodoxy could only be defined by his own personal views on Landmarkism, cessationism, anti-Charismaticism, anti-Calvinism, hyper-dispensationalism, etc . . .
Nothing wrong with these doctrines - unless you begin to demand that every Southern Baptist believes the way you do. My motion to investigate the controversies at the IMB, which was referred back to the IMB by the convention, included requests to investigate the following:
(1). The manipulation of the nominating process of the Southern Baptist Convention during the appointment of trustees for the International Mission Board.
(2). Attempts to influence and/or coerce the IMB trustees, staff, and administration to take a particular course of action by one or more Southern Baptist agency heads other than the President of the International Mission Board.
(3). The appropriate and/or inappropriate use of Forums and Executive Sessions of the International Mission Board as compared to conducting business in full view of the Southern Baptist Convention and the corresponding propriety and/or impropriety of the Chairman of the International Mission Board excluding any individual trustee, without Southern Baptist Convention approval, from participating in meetings where the full International Mission Board is convened.
(4). The legislation of new doctrinal requisites for eligibility to serve as employees or missionaries of the IMB beyond the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message. (emphasis mine)
(5). The suppression of dissent by trustees in the minority through various means by those in the majority, and the propriety of any agency forbidding a trustee, by policy, from publicly criticizing a Board approved action
I only point out to you these 2006 recommendations to show that the vote this past Tuesday night at the 2007 SBC was not taken in a vacuum.
What the Adoption of the Executive Committee's Statement on the BFM Means
(1). Any policy or guideline at an agency, that is based upon a doctrinal interpretation that EXCEEDS the Baptist Faith and Message, is not in line with the convention's vote to adopt the Executive Committee's statement on the BFM.
Some might argue that the BFM, by the statement itself, is not a COMPLETE statement of faith. As Dr. Mohler said today, it is not sufficient for the hiring of seminary professors.
I agree. There are some agencies, like seminaries, that need tighter, narrower, and more defined confessions - like the Abstract of Principles. The Convention has already approved the Abstract for Southern and Southeastern (not to mention it predates every BFM), but if Southwestern Seminary were to desire to 'tighten' her institutional confession, the proposed doctrinal confession would need to be voted upon by the convention as a whole.
(2). If trustees of any agency, particularly convention wide agencies like the International Mission Board or the North American Mission Board, were to refuse to abide by the convention's wishes of not demanding conformity on doctrinal interpretations not found in the BFM, then those trustees should be answerable to the convention -- since the convention elected them.
This does not mean there cannot be guidelines or policies that are implemented for moral, ethical or pragmatic reasons (weight, homosexuality, adultery, etc . . .), but new 'doctrinal' guidelines that exceed the BFM 2000 cannot be implemented unless there is a convention-wide consensus.
(3). I am in agreement that any trustee or employee who signs the BFM, but makes known any variance or disagreement with the BFM, should make that known publicly and in writing. The convention, then, has the right to remove that trustee, just as they have the right to remove trustees who do not follow their wishes in NOT establishing new doctrinal guidelines or policies that exceed the BFM.
I have made it known, from the very beginning of my service with the IMB, that I have two very minor disageements with the BFM. Since the 2007 SBC convention voted last night that the BFM was not infallible (thank the Lord for that one), I feel quite comfortable with my wholehearted affirmation of the BFM with only these two very minor disagreements over 'closed communion' (I believe in modified open communion as do many other Southern Baptist pastors and churches) and the innocency of infants until they personally sin (I believe the Bible teaches infants are guilty before they actually sin). Actually, there may be only ONE minor disagreement because I keep having professors tell me the BFM doesn't teach infants are innocent before they sin, but I have a hard time seeing their logic.
But, since all Southern Baptists believe the BFM is a consensus CONFESSION and not a mandatory CREED, then minor disagreements should be appropriate. That, in fact, is the nature of the difference between a confession and a creed.
I have also pointed out three other minor wording problems (the 'Spirit baptizing rather than 'Christ,' making every effort to end war, etc . . . ), but those minor disagreements were not my own personally, but written by Sam Storms and used to illustrate a point over 'minor' doctrines vs. 'major' doctrines of the faith.
Nevertheless, if someone believes that someone, similar to me, can't wholeheartedly affirm the BFM 2000, while at the same time expressing disagreement over closed communion and the innocency of infants, well then, that person ought to make a recommendation for my removal from the International Mission Board.
That's consistent. If you wish to ADD to the BFM -- the convention should make the decision. AND, if someone thinks closed communion is a 'major' and 'primary' doctrine, necessary for Southern Baptist missions and ministry service, then by all means, bring that person before the convention and let the convention decide if they should serve.
I think you will find that the convention will make the decision that this is a minor doctrine, one over which Southern Baptists should not divide. I'm very willing to be the guinea pig in order to show, by living example, the difference between a creed and a confession.
In fact, I was hoping that motion would come from the floor at THIS convention. It would serve well as an illustration between essentials and non-essentials, local church autonomy vs. denominational hierarchy, etc . . . I do not believe closed communion defines who is, or who isn't, a true Baptist.
(4). I do believe everyone in the SBC, on both sides of this issue has a good heart. But, I can't understand why anyone in a position of authority within the SBC would take such a flippant, even careless attitude toward the wishes of the entire convention.
My post yesterday was the strongest post I've ever written. I think I was simply taken back by the attitude and the words I heard by a handful of the seminary Presidents in reaction to the convention's vote to adopt the BFM statement. I am hopeful that in time, a more humble and soft attitude will prevail toward the ultimate authority of our convention -- the majority vote of messengers. Authority does not ultimately reside in the President's office, nor even ultimately even in the boards of trustees, but in the people who put the trustees in place.
(5). Finally, prior to 1979 our convention cooperated for the purpose of missions. Since 1979 the focus has become an attempt at bringing doctrinal purity to our convention. It is now time to refocus on the very reason we became a cooperating convention -- missions!
I am hopeful that the next year will help us refocus.
This post shall be my last one until the weekend.
In His Grace,
Wade Burleson
211 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 211 of 211Wade,
You say, "The convention has never ruled that a disagreement with the BFM 2000 is cause for removal. Neither have the trustees."
Correct. But what I'm asking you to consider is whether *your* understanding of the EC statement paves the way for exactly that. My point is not that you or anyone else should be removed. I've made no recommendations on that. My point is that your position *on the EC statement* is inconsistent.
To say that the BFM is a "sufficient" guide to doctrine can be parsed rigidly, flexibly, or loosely. So how do you parse it? Either way, you undermine your goals.
[1] A rigid understanding of "sufficiency": the BFM is the trustees' only guideline in setting doctrinal policies. It sets a minimal floor and a maximal ceiling.
[2] A flexible understanding of "sufficiency": the BFM is a minimal guideline for trustees in setting doctrinal policies, but they are free to consult other standards as well. It sets a minimal floor, but not a maximal ceiling. It is sufficient for guidance on those topics it chooses to address, but is obviously insufficient to guide in those topics it does not address. [Notice that when the EC statement says that the BFM is not "a complete statement of our faith," nor a "final" statement, it appears to confirm the flexible understanding.]
[3] A loose understanding of "sufficiency": the BFM should be a source of guidance for trustees, but it is neither a minimal floor nor a maximal ceiling. In forming policy and practice, trustees are free to go contrary to individual doctrines in the BFM which they deem to be minor doctrines. They can also form policies that go beyond the BFM.
If the rigid understanding prevails, then you've paved the way for both the overturning of the IMB policies, and the rejection of any candidate who disagrees with anything in the BFM. That's what happens when the BFM is a minimal floor and a maximal ceiling.
If a flexible understanding prevails, then you get the worst of both worlds. The IMB policy is not necessarily challengeable, but you still get the rejection of any candidate who disagrees with anything in the BFM. That's what happens when you get a minimal floor but not a maximal ceiling.
If a loose understanding prevails, then the IMB policy is not challengeable on the basis of the EC statement, but at least future employees get to disagree with parts of the BFM. That's what happens when you get neither a minimal floor nor a maximal ceiling.
So how in fact would you like the "sufficiency" clause of the EC statement to be implemented? You have lots of choices here, but none seem to bode well for the consistency of your position. You seem to want a house that has a roof but no floor. You want a maximal ceiling but not a minimal floor. I don't see that as a reasonable parsing of BFM-as-sufficient-doctrinal-guide.
You keep appealing to past, "de facto" policy of the convention, per my citation of you above. But that's not relevant in determining the application of this *new* statement, is it? You want the EC statement to be able to *overturn* a past, "de facto" action (the IMB policy), but when I point out further implications of the EC statement, you reply, "but the convention has hired BFM-dissenters in the past." So after affirming the relevance of the EC statement in overturning a past, "de facto" action, you turn around and says it has no relevance in overturning a past, "de facto" action. Well, which is it? One might as well appeal to the past action of the IMB, if past actions are going to be relevant. You only want the EC statement to have teeth when it serves your purpose; otherwise, not.
According to you, "the EC statement on the BFM affirms the ability to for people to disagree over minor doctrines of the BFM for it is a 'consensus confession' and is fallible and not a creed."
Surely that's not what "consensus confession" means. The BFM is a consensus confession precisely because the doctrines that are in it represent the *consensus* of the messengers as to the essentials of Baptist faith and practice. If there wasn't a consensus, then it didn't make it into the document. A consensus document represents where the messengers *agree*, not where they disagree.
The fact that the BFM is fallible and not a creed is irrelevant, in *this* context. The BFM teaches the Trinity, and the deity of Christ. I'm sure you would agree with me that *no one* would be able to wiggle out of those doctrines, for the purpose of becoming an SBC employee, by noting that the BFM is fallible and not a creed. Of course the BFM could be wrong in what it states on many matters. Nevertheless, it wouldn't be a consensus statement if the messengers didn't think it was true in what it stated.
I mean, really: the *EC statement* is fallible and not a creed, but last I checked, you want *everyone* to agree with it, no exceptions! :-) So I can't take seriously your stance here; it's as inconsistent as the others.
Again, the BFM itself doesn't make your distinction between negotiable and non-negotiable doctrines. It offers no *guidance* on this question. But surely, even according to you, the trustees *need* such guidance if they are to form policy and practice, and accept those who disagree on "minor" doctrines. So where are they to *get* such guidance? It doesn't really matter how you answer this question. By answering it, you will have revealed your rejection of the EC statement, which says that the BFM is a sufficient guide for doctrinal policy. The only way out is to parse "sufficiency" more loosely. But then the EC statement has no teeth to overturn the IMB policy. Either way, you don't get what you want.
You say, "The whole argument is ONE OF COOPERATION." Of course. So what are the implications of the EC statement when it comes to trustee policy for the sake of such cooperation? You haven't yet parsed the statement such that it gets you what you want.
I'm not talking about cooperation or conformity, so much as *consistency*. Where's the consistency in the position that parses the EC statement such that the BFM is sufficient-but-negotiable?
Of course, this could have all been avoided, if the messengers had been asked to vote on a very clear statement of your goals, namely, Chapman's (1) and (2) from his address. But, as Bart Barber so eloquently put it:
"The text of the statement, in and of itself, says nothing like the 'implications' of it presented by Burleson and Chapman. If they wish for the SBC to adopt those sentiments, they need to make a motion that says so plainly. Doing so isn't difficult; just risky."
The problem here isn't that you gambled and lost in San Antonio, or gambled and won, but that you weren't willing to gamble at all :-)
Wow!
Dr. Welty is advocating gambling :)
-What a turn THIS conversation just made!
Dr. Welty,
I disagree.
They didn't build the Gaza Pyramid overnight and you don't build bridges of cooperation among diverse and various Southern Baptists overnight.
That which you say is confusing is not to me -- but if you need something more specific when it comes to a statement of cooperation, it will be coming.
As far as consistency is concerned -- here it is:
Only the Southern Baptist Convention has the ability to determine whether or not someone is qualified to serve as a Southern Baptist in missions and evangelism cooperative ministry.
The definition of 'true' Baptist identity comes not from the pen of a professor or a President .. .
It comes from the decisions of the convention as a whole.
That . . . Dr. Welty . . . is very consistent.
SBC agencies can't go BEYOND the BFM in establishing doctrinal guidelines or policies (we are not talking about policies and procedures for employees that are based on things other than doctrine) that prohibit Southern Baptists from serving with that agency without SBC approval. Likewise, a nominee for trustee service should be able to express disagreement on the tertiary doctrines of the BFM (i.e. closed communion) and stil serve as a trustee WITH SBC CONVENTION approval.
You must make a distinction between employees and trustees. Trustees are accountable to the convention. Employees are accountable to the boards of the agencies in which they servve.
For you not to see the logic and consistency in the above two paragraphs is something I simply cannot understand.
In His Grace,
Wade Burleosn
Wade:
I think this debate is beginning to gain some traction from both sides.
Dr. Welty's logic to me seems air tight. Regardless of whatever position Dr. Welty takes on any changes in the IMB -- or any other agency -- he has pointed out the pitfalls from gleaning any particular "meaning" from the EC resolution.
I think your observation that there will be a forthcoming "statement of cooperation" is just the thing needed to fill the void.
Counting on the EC resolution to get us to the Promised Land is just not going to happen. I don't think Tuesday's resolution "helped" to advance "your" side or the side of those who are opposed to the "breath of fresh air" that you are advancing in SBC life. It has just fogged the issue making it harder to focus on the crux of the debate by putting up an artificial smokescreen which sends both sides down a rabbit trail to try to do a nuanced parsing of a defective document that really says nothing.
I have yet to listen to the floor debate that preceded the passing of the EC resolution. However, I think that whatever was said is becoming academic given the vastly different interpretations that are possible. Even if I listened to the debate and came out with a clear understanding regarding what the speakers on both sides meant regarding -- to use Dr. Welty's terms -- the height of the "ceiling" {maximal vs. minimal} or depth of the "floor" and/or the meaning of "sufficiency" that would meaningless exercise. That is because whatever the messengers understood is not necessarily what the speakers understood. Many of the people in that convention hall are just "laymen" like me so I don't think it is realistic to expect them to grasp this weasel-worded document.
I've changed my mind. I'm not going to waste my time any more on Tuesday's resolution.
I think both sides need to actually negotiate a document that is not vague. They need to sit down in a "room" (maybe phone and/or E-mails) and actually engage the primary issues of (1) PPL in the agencies, (2) "open" vs. "close" vs. "closed" communion, (3) exact mode of Baptism in non-SBC church, etc -- EXPLICITELY. No more GENERIC CODE-WORDS. NO MORE VAGUE GENERALIZATIONS that don't come right out and define those things that are areas WHERE COOPERATING SOUTHERN BAPTISTS AGREE TO DISAGREE.
I ask all the readers on this BLOG: Do any of you see some type of meeting on this as opposed just talking past each other and arguing over meaningless documents that really don't say anything explicit? Do any of you agree that something explicit is needed to enumerate a list of "third tier" (use your own term) doctrines/practices over which Baptists can disagree but still cooperate?
I am cautiously optimistic. I think that "most" would agree -- at least in principle -- to come up with such a list. If so, then the hard part is deciding what items go on the list. Brokering a consensus on that list would be a monumental accomplishment.
Well, Wade, the mantle has fallen in to your lap. I think you are on the cusp of an unstoppable movement. I also think that you will make more progress from this point out by actively reaching out to those who you perceive to be on "the other side". You have to engage them halfway to come out with something that they will buy into even if they don't agree. Also, you have to be willing to accept stuff that is less than your complete goal for the sake of at least incremental progress toward the "breath of fresh air".
There is too much posturing going on between various "sides" that is not conducive to progress.
To those on both sides: The SBC will become atomized if you all insist that every issue must be "pure as the wind driven snow" and that it must be "my way or the highway". There has to be give and take on all sides. The BEST result will be one in which every one "loses" equally. Every other result perpetuates this continuous carping over trivial stuff and the slow but continuous fracturing of the SBC leading to it slowly sinking into irrelevance.
Dr. Welty: Do you think it is desirable / possible to engage this debate explicitly rather than tangentially? Taking PPL as an example do you think that progress could be made to set aside whether PPL is "right" or "wrong" so that a consensus document could be framed that would define "areas of cooperation on disputed doctrines/practices"?.
The reason in the past that progress has been throttled is that I think most people have been arguing their case upon the "rightness" or "wrongness" of a particular doctrine or Baptist distinctive rather than engaging the idea of what the bounds of cooperation should be. People need to set aside whether a doctrine is right or wrong and consider "does this doctrine/practice" cut to the core of what it means to be a Southern Baptist.
Roger K. Simpson
Oklahoma City OK
dr. page seems to think that the bfm2k statement was just a minimal statement of belief as well. so, most, if not all, seminary presidents think that it was minimal...richard land thinks it was minimal....dr. frank page thinks that it was minimal...volfan thinks it was minimal...hummmmmmmmm....why dont others see it that way?
david
btw, tim guthrie's blog carries the reporters interview with dr. frank page concerning the bfm2k if any of you want to know. tim's blog is sbctoday.blogspot.com
david
Rex Ray said…
This may have been brought up before, but if the BFM 2000 is to be the ‘guiding paper’, how did/could/should/will anyone be fired for NOT signing the IMB since that would EXCEED the IMB?
On October 25, 2006, you stated in this blog:
For some reason there are people who are being very deceptive in the blog world by trying to make it look as if I am advocating liberals (those who deny the inerrancy of the Bible) have a place at the table of leadership in the SBC.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
I was asked via a comment on my blog "If you had the power..would you place an individual into a position of influence in the SBC...who believed and lived the Bible to be inspired, infallible, authoritative, sufficient...but truly believed that the Bible is not inerrant?
I responded: Short answer: No.
Anyone who says I am attempting to broaden the tent to include those who are not 'inerrantists' is the problem. All they can do is shout, "He's a liberal!" or "He wants liberals at the table."
No. Not at all. Liberals who deny the accuracy, authority and reliability of the Word of God would be better off in leadership in another convention. It's not that they are not brothers in Christ, and it's not that we wish them harm, they just don't represent what we believe about the Bible.
That's what you said then.
However, your motion did the opposite. It opened the door for errant liberals, some of them at least, to say they qualify as Southern Baptists if they, like you, categorize some issues BFM 2000 are tertiary.
Do you make a distinction between liberals as members only and liberals as "leadership" at the table? The former is OK but not the latter?
The main stream media pitched the convention as backtracking from hard line conservatism. They are commending, rather than criticizing, the convention this time. I heard someone say that they heard that Jimmy Carter called the resolution progress.
If no one else supports you, you may at least have Jimmy Carter's support.
Was the implications about inerrancy inadvertent?
Would you support an amendment to BFM 2000 adopting inerrancy to clarify all this?
Rex Ray said…
To SOMEBODY,
Without a name, you will probably never get a reply from Wade, and like most, he does not like ‘hard’ questions, so I will give you my opinion to the answer you requested.
It's strange that you should pick a post that really upset me as I made this comment close to the end:
“TruthOfActs said...
Wade,
Let’s see—you said, “I have received probably 100 comments favorable for a statement of cooperation…there have been 4 that could be considered critical of it including the 2 that focused on Ron’s comment—for the sake of keeping the focus on the issue at hand I am closing the comment section.”
Well, well, well—what kind of truth and grace is that? Should Ron’s comment be deleted because two people didn’t like it? He wrote what he thought was the truth. Let’s hear what these two guys say. I thought discussion was the basis for your blog. To shut the post down is what Hitler did to newspapers.
Wade, a few times you have disappointed me, but this is the first time I’m angry. You say you want to change the SBC, but you’re not going to do it with your tail between your legs.
Rex Ray
Monday, October 30, 2006”
You reminded him that he said he would say “No” to anyone applying for leadership positions who did not believe in ‘inerrancy’, and asked if he would support ‘inerrancy’ to be adopted by the BFM.
In my opinion, inerrancy is a fourth tier level. I believe the BFM defines the Bible very well by saying: “We believe the Bible has…truth, without any mixture of error for its matter and that all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy.”
Michael Whitehead, presiding lawyer for the SBC explained that “mixture of error” meant the truth of the Bible is true and the untruth of the Bible is untrue.
“Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15) [Divide truth from untruth.]
To me, Scripture is the truth of the Bible which would exclude the lies of the devil and men. It would exclude the uninformed, ignorance, and stupidity of man. That includes all men in black hats, white hats, or ball headed.
As grain and shaft are tossed into the air and separated by the wind, truth and untruth of the Bible are separated by the Holy Spirit.
Somebody, there are three kinds of people with “wrong’ thinking in this world:
1. Those that never learn they are wrong.
2. Those that learn and admit their mistake.
3. Those that learn and never admit their mistake.
With that said, I believe Wade would not try to adopt inerrancy into the BFM or he would have already done so.
Unity will be restored once the fundamentalists have complete power. Goodness, think of it, all the sheeple, excuse me, the people will have to do is completely agree with and obey the BF&M, expecially the leadership's interpretation of it. No more disagreements, just obedience.
If you end up before the throne of judgment and God says, "What were you thinking?", you can simply reply that you are not responsponsible, you only followed orders.
I think the priorities in reality should be: Christ First, Last, and Always; Bible for guidance; BF&M somewhere way, way down the line, and as for the Leadership, well . . . . . . . "
Post a Comment