And not surprisingly, there were the obligatory calls for "revival in the SBC."
I hear calls for "revival" every year, but the SBC seems to be in a perpetual decline. What does it take to bring about genuine revival?
A young messenger named David Bumgardner deftly illustrated today what it takes to unite a Convention in mission and purpose. David works at Cornerstone, my friend Dwight McKissic's church in Arlington, Texas. David had applied to be an intern at Emmanuel Enid, Oklahoma, a couple of summers ago, but our positions were filled. I imagine this is David's first Southern Baptist Convention. Listen to David address the SBC.
Notice the situation that illustrates the FOUR STEPS TO REAL REVIVAL:
1. Thousands of people were in unilateral misery and they knew it.
2. An unknown stranger persisted in providing everyone a message of mercy.
3. This messenger identified with those around him, not as one above them.
4. Those with the keys to bringing coolness to the room responded to the pleas.
I am convinced that the reason revival has not yet occurred in the churches and in America is because we are not yet in real, heartfelt misery.
As Joan Rivers used to say, "Why would I want to go to heaven when I live in the Hamptons?"
I think misery and pain are coming soon to America and the Southern Baptist Convention. All of us will experience it. We must be ready with a message of mercy and hope in Christ Jesus and be persistent and creative in our cries for His mercy on our souls. The LORD will bring revival to the hearts of thousands when thousands plea (pray) for the movement of His Spirit in our midst.
So thank you, David Bumgardner, for illustrating the prerequisites for real revival. Revival IS coming. I can FEEL it in my bones.
Misery is right around the corner.
42 comments:
Clever Wade.
Shades of Leonard Ravenhill. I like it.
The strange tigers which have been loosed from their cages care not who they eat and ain't goin back inside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CBTyf50IVY
'consume in me everything that is un-Christ-like'
(Leonard Ravenhill)
reminds me of the words of Flannery O'Connor
"
“He felt his hunger no longer as a pain but as a tide. He felt it rising in himself through time and darkness, rising through the centuries, and he knew that it rose in a line of men whose lives were chosen to sustain it, who would wander in the world, strangers from that violent country where the silence is never broken except to shout the truth. He felt it building from the blood of Abel to his own, rising and spreading in the night, a red-gold tree of fire ascended as if it would consume the darkness in one tremendous burst of flame. The boy’s breath went out to meet it. He knew that this was the fire that had encircled Daniel, that had raised Elijah from the earth, that had spoken to Moses and would in the instant speak to him. He threw himself to the ground and with his face against the dirt of the grave, he heard the command. GO WARN THE CHILDREN OF GOD OF THE TERRIBLE SPEED OF MERCY. The words were as silent as seed opening one at a time in his blood.”
(Flannery O'Connor, The Violent Bear It Away)
"Ponder anew
All the Almighty can do
He Who with love doth befriend thee
Praise to the Lord Who,
when tempests their warfare are waging,
Who, when the elements madly around thee are raging,
Bideth them cease,
turning their fury to peace,
Whirlwinds and waters assuaging "
Scott Shaver,
I agree; the tigers are not going back to their cages. You’d written, “Our SBC President says we can’t believe anything that’s not in the Bible.”
Does that mean we can believe in horses, but not cars, trains, or airplanes?
Did he use Joe Biden’s speech writers?
At one time, the ‘powers’ made ‘inerrancy’ their battle cry.
Wade,
I’d rather have a revival like John the Baptist did before he was born. :)
This may be going "off the reservation", it is scattered, but my mind keeps circling on all of this:
Too many of us gave up and gave in to The Science, the new religion that is supposed to save us all. As a child, I remember when prayer in school became a controversy. As a child, my thought was "what does it matter; we want everyone to be comfortable; I can still pray for myself." But prayer in school matters. We became a Godless society/culture and culture matters. The Science took over from the church and the church seemed to willing give up.
We have become a society that celebrates the victim and so we have lost the motivation to become victorious. Is the wrath of God about be unleashed on us for turning away from Him? Maybe. Probably.
We have thrown our children under the bus. To protect OUR safety, we decided that their education, their safe zones, their emotional health and their lives didn't matter. Anxiety and suicides among the young are predictably sky rocketing. What happened to the concept of adults protecting children?
WWJD? I am convinced that if Jesus had been alive during the COVID 19 pandemic he would not have taken to his bedroom, logged onto Zoom and fed the masses via Uber Eats.
The strange tigers, the strange viruses, the strange have all been unloosed as we have turned from God expecting science and technology to save us......Unfortunately, just as people will subvert the church for power, they also subvert science for power.
Celeste,
Amen.
Rex,
Ditto! Amen (about John the Baptist).
Scott and Christiane,
Interesting times indeed!
I am right with you Rex. Greear's remark was actually "inerrancy means not believing anything for which you cannot supply chapter and verse".
I am not getting on any more airplanes because I can't find passage and verse to convince me to believe the darn thing can fly.
Again, the shibboleths of inerrancy and sufficiency are useless without the dynamic power of the Holy Spirit when it comes to biblical interpretation.
They keep trying with words and statements and divisions of primary and tertiarry doctrine to do that which only the Holy Spirit can, but they fear teaching that to seminary students and promoting that in church practice with their collective statement of faith.
Celeste:
Appreciate your thoughts.
"Is the wrath of God about to be unleashed?"
The writer of the Book of Romans penned that "the wrath of God is ALREADY being unleashed against all those who hold the truth in unrighteousness".
What you and I are watching is tbe EVIDENCE of Gods wrath.
We are not moving away from the Tower of Babel, we're racing toward it.
Wade, I think your illustration of what is needed for revival is hilarious!
I did not look to see the video until after reading your entire post. I thought that this David Bumgardner was going to give some really lofty, spiritual plea for revival and then I watched it.
I think waiting to view the video until after reading your thoughts made it a lot more effective and pointed in portraying those elements mentioned by you as being needed for genuine revival.
I am not as optimistic as you in anticipating a revival coming soon. I am not confident in the least that we are going to have one at all. The basis for my reaching this conclusion is:
1. We have fallen into such depravity as a society that our social consciousness has died.
2. The condition of society has deteriorated to the point that it has infiltrated the church to the point of it not having a significant enough segment to mount a plea for revival with a corresponding response in recognizing the need.
3. In my personal assessment, our society and church has become so prosperous and independent of God that we are no where near the beginning of "suffering", especially to the point of depravity, that would result in our falling on our faces in desperation before God to beg for His mercy accompanied with the required willingness to submit to His "Lordship" over our lives.
4. The lone possibility for such a state of desperation arising would be a total, global, catastrophic, event of monumental proportions even far beyond a "COVID" epidemic. It would have to be of the magnitude that brings everyone to the realization that only a supernatural involvement of God could bring remedy. As significant as COVID was, it occurred without so much as a "ripple" of spiritual disturbance on a comprehensive level. I doubt that even a global economic depression could impact the condition of this world to a level of desperation that would be necessary.
I DO believe that there will be a continued "culling" of the insincere, disingenuous, hypocritical, facade of the "church". This "culling", or "cutting away" of the "chaff" is occurring by more and more "professing Christians" becoming so identified with "the world" as to diminish a contrast in their allegiance to Christ as opposed to "the world". As that happens, there will be a heightened level of persecution toward those true, born-again, followers who are obviously "sanctified" and set apart as being a queer, peculiar, segment of people.
This "enchanting-away" of the disingenuous along with the heightened persecution of the genuine will result in a much smaller core of the "true church" remaining.
This "refined" church remaining after the chaff has been burned and rotted away by the aforementioned process will be a much smaller presence than the promoted "Church" existing in today's society. This remaining church core will be a much smaller presence consisting only of those who have been born again through the regenerative salvation process of the applied blood of Jesus Christ.
It will be so small as to no longer be considered an influence by the secular world and particularly the "political" forces of government who will feel all the more emboldened in its freedom to persecute the remaining "Bride of Christ". However, this remaining, refined, core, serving as the physical presence of Jesus Christ in that fragmented world will be empowered supernaturally so as to make "The Kingdom of God" on earth an annoying presence to the worldly forces of Satan's realm.
I pray, Wade, that YOUR prediction turns out to be the fulfilled prophecy rather than my own.
Wade,
What do you think about the meeting between Putin and Biden today?
Wade,
Today, the Tucker Carlson show interviewed a woman whose husband and son developed blood clots on their brains after taking the COVID-19 vaccine.
Hello REX RAY,
I was thinking that with Tucker Carlson's latest 'news' (?) or theories about who is responsible for the Jan 6th 'event' at the US Capitol;
that MAYBE it might be wiser to actually have an independent inquiry into that 'event' where TRUSTED Americans investigate what happened publicly and call witnesses to be heard (supoenaed?).
The speculation has gone too far into conspiracy theory country and even Putin is having fun with the far right's concerns which was more or less predictable.
Time to put some good Americans in charge of a non-partisan panel to find out what happened. And why it happened.
Did you know that 21 Republicans did not want to honor the Capitol police for their efforts to stop the 'event' on Jan 6th?
And now Tucker Carlson comes with his ideas about who is responsible for it.
A good clean open air (public) inquiry by TRUSTED non-partisans would answer a lot of questions.
I haven't been able to respect Tucker Carlson as a source of information since the days he praised Putin. He 'apologized' for that, but now he is back in that camp again. He was always 'conservative', but what is happening now is NOT 'conservative' or 'American'.
And those new states' voting laws where if a losing side even suggests 'fraud', that the whole election can be overturned . . . what is that all about? It doesn't sound like my country's kind of laws which require evidence in court, no.
Wade is right: strange days are upon us.
You take care.
Christianne:
You would fit in well with the lunatic fringes now attacking the SBC and calling for perpetual third party investigations that never produce a damn thing but more confusion, ill will and debt.
Regardless of your take on Tucker Carlson.
Conservatism obviously rubs you the wrong way so any attempt by you to define it or Americanism is suspect IMO.
You take care.
CHRISTIANE,
WHAT! No reply about the woman whose husband and son got blood clots after taking their vaccine shots on the Tucker Carlson show?
I missed Carlson’s theories about Jan 6th . What did he say?
Putin says Nord Stream 2 gas link to be finished as U.S. seeks good European ties | Reuters
“ST PETERSBURG, Russia, June 4 (Reuters) - Russia's Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline is ready to start pumping gas to Germany and the final stretch will be completed as the new U.S. administration seeks good relations with "key partners in Europe," President Vladimir Putin said on Friday.”
CHRISTIANE, ask Biden why he stopped our pipeline.
Christianne:
There is no such thing in these matters anymore as "non-partisan" Wake up.
Putin had fun with Biden. Underscored Biden's incompetence in international affairs.
I must admit, Biden looked pathetically weak with the Russians. I would rather have Christianne than Biden representing to Russia😂😂
Hey REX RAY,
best you hear Tucker say it himself:
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-government-agents-helped-organize-capitol-riot
What American pipeline are you talking about, REX RAY?
Where is it located?
Mr. Kuter, I read what you wrote about your concern, this:
" The lone possibility for such a state of desperation arising would be a total, global, catastrophic, event of monumental proportions even far beyond a "COVID" epidemic. It would have to be of the magnitude that brings everyone to the realization that only a supernatural involvement of God could bring remedy.
Mr. Kuter,
people for millennia have suffered terribly with despair. So it was when Our Lord came to be with us and with Him, came the 'good' news. It may be that it is in the WAY we present that 'good news' that makes a real difference to people who suffer from desperation in this world. I recently wrote something that touches on the work of the Holy Spirit Who points us only to Christ, this:
'Christian mission' is encapsulated in the seed of its beginning: Proclamation.
" We proclaim your Death, O Lord, and profess your Resurrection, ... Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again."
All Christian formation (discipleship) flows from this announcement that was able to put the ancient world on its ear: the HOPE of once more seeing and being WITH one's beloved dead in the resurrection . . . . this hope came from one earth-shaking message: Christ is Risen.
In my Church, the proclamation of Christ's Resurrection drew people to the faith. Just by pointing to Christ in this way, something of hope in people was activated and they wanted to believe. Then, the stories of the 'Good Shepherd' came dear to them, and we find so many of the early catacombs had images of Jesus Christ as the Good Shepherd, bearing a lamb safely 'home' . . . . these images were often done at sites where people had lain the remains of their dead children. The 'proclamation' of the Risen Lord Who brought 'lambs' safely 'home' resonated in the love the early faithful had for their lost little ones especially.
Today, too many tell of hell and sin and a 'transactional' faith of you do this, say this, believe this, and you are saved, but this 'evangelization' forgets the joy that was generated by the first pronouncements to the world of the Christ Who tended the souls of innocent children as a Shepherd would carry them to safety and in my opinion,
something very precious is lost when 'joy' and 'hope' are not the first 'news' brought to someone's attention, but when love has a chance to be activated, then the Holy Spirit can move where our human 'words' have little ability to reach: and human tears can be unfrozen by the Holy Spirit which is a grace that opens people to faith in a far more authentic way.
Thanks, Christiane. I see no conflict with your sentiments and mine.
With all due respect Christianne: Most of the Christians commenting on this thread are Baptist.
Baptists have ALWAYS and historically EXCELLED at the PROCLAMTION. (preaching the pants off Catholic priests IMO).
We still have enough Anabaptist and radical reformation blood left in our veins not to take advice from the RCC on how to do either missions or proclamation.
Check your history.
Christianne:
Your RCC predecessors used to put my anabaptist predecessors to death.
And I still haven't received reparations😜
Light-heartedly, the way I see it Christianne: Both Calvinists and The RCC should be on the hook for us poor abused baptists and an outside investigation of anti-baptist sentiment should be conducted in the interest of social justice😎
I still do, respectfully. Jesus spoke more about Hell than Heaven.
I'm kidding.
The Keystone Pipeline. Does Christianne have any family or friends in the oil and gas industry.
I tend to let theological statements raise mental red flags sometimes. For example, I found the newly elected SBC President's church statement on the Trinity to be alarming.
sharing an ancient hymn to the Holy Trinity from the Eastern Byzantine rite of my godmother of blessed memory:
Trisagion
https://youtu.be/eHi-1taeqeo
some wisdom about the great mysteries of God, this:
"si comprendis, non est Deus" (Augustine)
By the way, the new SBC President has written denials that Jesus spoke more often and more vividly on hell than heaven. You make the call.
I still say that the Great Commission calls for making disciples ... students, learners and not just converts. And with our attendance around 33% of membership, it seems 2/3 of our members ... people God sent us to make disciples ... are not being discipled.
I repeat: no one has answered me correctly when I asked why one has to be baptized to join a Baptist church. Still, many years after I told this from the floor of the convention in New Orleans.
And since the problem really lies with the pastors, I do not expect it to be faced, admitted, and dealt with.
Hear ya Bob.
I prefer believers baptism ritualistically. But never made the form nor lack of believer's baptism by immersion a test of fellowhip or involvement in our local church.
The FORM of ritualistic baptism usually ended up with the non baptized brothers and sister coming to me BEGGING to be publicly baptised by immersion.
You make the call, as the old Monday Night Football broadcast used to divide its segments with.
That's among the reasons I'm a believer in OPEN communion.
"I repeat: no one has answered me correctly when I asked why one has to be baptized to join a Baptist church."
One reason I love this post is that the strings of comments often introduce some very provocative and intriguing issues and questions, this being one of those.
We Baptists recognize that "baptism" is not essential for the salvation/regeneration process of one's soul to take place. That being the case, we acknowledge that baptism is not required for a person to become a member of the collective body of Christ, hence, "the church".
Why then do we Baptists require baptism prior to becoming a member of our local group of followers?
We know that "church" membership (within the context of that local group of believers) does not save a person either. So we know there is a difference between belonging to "the church" when in reference to that collective group of members belonging to the body of Christ and the "local group" of believers who are members of the Kingdom of God and serve together as followers of Jesus Christ.
Baptism is one of the initial acts of obedience to our Lord Jesus Christ as one of His followers. I believe a person's spiritual growth is dependent upon their obedience. I don't know about you guys, but personally, I have NEVER witnessed a person who did not follow up a profession of faith by being baptized that grew more spiritually in a quest to follow Jesus.
I agree, RB, and think it should be required for membership. I was thinking more along the lines of how to get them in the baptistry.
it is said that Adam sat down in the river that flowed out of Eden and wept...
some thoughts on 'baptism'
‘ . . . there they were, “by the rivers of Babylon,” longing for home’
I was fascinated the first time I read that, in Jewish tradition, Adam continued to ritually bathe in the rivers that flowed out from Eden, thereby maintaining a connection to it . . . and then I learned about the ‘purification’ rituals of the ‘mikvah’ and I remember asking an evangelical Christian if he thought that there was a ‘connection’ between the origin of the Jewish ‘mikvah’ tradition and the Christian practice of ‘baptism’ . . .
he said ‘no’
but I cannot say that myself, the transcendent imagery is so strong that there must be some element of meaning that ties the two together . . . although I can’t ‘know’ this, but I ‘sense’ it must be meaningful, if only in the hope and the yearning for a cleansing from sin and a returning to God.
From eastern Christianity's liturgy:
"Be thou ready, Zabulon; prepare thyself, O Nephthalim. River Jordan, stay thy course and skip for gladness to receive the Sovereign Master, Who cometh now to be baptized. O Adam, be thou glad with our first mother, Eve; hide not as ye did of old in Paradise. Seeing you naked, He hath appeared now to clothe you in the first robe again. Christ hath appeared, for He truly willeth to renew all creation.
In the running waters of the Jordan River, on this day the Lord of all crieth to John: Be not afraid and hesitate not to baptize Me, for I am come to save Adam, the first-formed man.”
https://youtu.be/STtz7ZhEC6U
the sacred Scriptures speak to us, not of some meaningless 'ritual' but of something 'more'
" And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
" “Deep calling on deep in the roar of waters: Your torrents and waves have swept over me . . . ”
"The LORD reached down from above and took hold of me; He pulled me out of the deep waters "
https://youtu.be/I-zt0lJwrFk
CHRISTIANE,
You asked, “What American pipeline are you talking about; where is it located?”
Obama opposed the Keystone XL pipeline from Canada to Texas oil refineries that would create 20,000 jobs. His vice-president, Biden accomplished what Obama tried to do when he became President.
Thanks for the link on Tucker.
Sorry Christianne:
We must not be reading the same "sacred scripture". The New Testament of the sacred scripture I read places much emphasis on the ritual of baptism as a sign of obedience. In fact, Christ himself walked sixty miles to be baptized by John. When John asked Jesus why HE needed to be baptized, Jesus told him it was to fulfill righteousness. Obviously Jesus saw a great deal of significance in what you describe as a "meaningless ritual".
So the "sacred Scriptures" definitely DO speak to us about this "meaningless ritual" that Christ was adamant about being subjected to.
Try reading ALL of sacred scripture.
"So will My Word be which goes forth from My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it."
(Isaiah 55:11)
Without the Word of God, there is only the darkness.
" take the Helmet of Salvation,
and the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God"
(Ephesians 6:17)
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