A nation must have citizens with primary allegiance to God or that nation will lose its merit.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution
Do you actually believe that America was designed to be an irreligious nation? Do you believe the government is not supposed to talk about the citizen's responsibility to God? Do you believe that based on your understanding of the First Amendment?
Nothing...could...be...further...from...the...truth.
The Greatness of the United States
Joseph Story (1775-1845) became Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court in 1807 at the age of 32, the youngest person ever appointed to the Supreme Court. Justice Story was only a generation removed from the founding of the United States. He wrote the magisterial Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States in 1833. This work remains a cornerstone of American jurisprudence on the provisions of the U.S. Constitution and the forming of the American Republic. Listen to what Justice Story says about the First Amendment:
"At the time of the adoption of the Constitution, and of the First Amendment...the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the State so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience and the freedom of religious worship. Any attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation.”― Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States
Pay attention to what Justice Story is saying. The United States was built on the government should encourage the Christian principle that each individual is accountable to God and that no law of the United States could interfere or abrogate God's common law for mankind.
John Adams, the 2nd U.S. President and Signer of the Declaration of Independence wrote the following about the formation of our nation."The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects (of Christianity) were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty...on law.
Therefore, the purpose of the First Amendment was not to protect American citizens or American institutions from religion. The First Amendment was written to protect the freedoms of its religious citizens from government intrusion. The government promised in the Bill of Rights not to support one Christian sect (Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Catholic, etc...) over another - like had happened in Europe. But all our Founding Fathers were united in their belief that the United States was built on the basic Christian principles of liberty and personal accountability to God.
The way to prevent tyranny in America, they believed, was through the promotion of Christianity.
John Hancock, the 1st Signer of the Declaration of Independence wrote:
"Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us."
--History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.
Thus, the entire Bill of Rights (e.g. the first ten Amendments to the Constitution) was written to protect the freedoms of individual American citizens from the tyranny of a federal government.
The Bill of Rights declare what the federal government can NOT do.
America was founded as a religious country.
"I (Wade Burleson) believe in keeping the government out of churches. But I also believe America will collapse if individuals keep God out of their lives and governments keep accountability to and dependence on God out of its policies."
That's why I'm a Baptist.
For example, laws in the United States have historically reflected a belief that individual citizens will one day be accountable to God. Until the mid-20th century, every state in the United States had adultery laws and infidelity laws. Sodomy laws were also in force in every state. Adultery and sodomy were illegal in the United States because state governmental leaders believed individuals were accountable to God.
Taking the life of another human being is illegal in the United States. Sex with children is illegal in the United States. The United States is founded on the religious belief that God is the Creator and individuals - as well as society as a whole - are accountable to God.
An Illustration of a Nation Destroyed
directly to their Creator.
During the 1966 Cultural Revolution in China, the Marxist leader Mao Zedong led the Chinese young people in murderous destruction of "Old Values" in China. The "Four Olds" were:
- Old ideas
- Old customs
- Old culture
- Old habits
Young people who terrorized the citizens of China were known as RED GUARDS. Any building owners (evil landlords), bougies (those who wore pointed shoes and tight pants, giving evidence of individuality and wealth), or believers in God were enemies of "the precious Leader Mao Zedong." The OLDS would be arrested, tortured, and killed. An estimated 2,000,000 people died during the Cultural Revolution.
Within just a few short years, China turned from a meritocracy (leaders with merit) to a kakistocracy (leaders without merit). Yes, kakistocracy is a word.
How does a nation ever come to the place of being ruled by the worst kind of people?
You must first remove God and the historical-cultural values of that nation.
Chinese students during 1966/1967 were pressed by their Marxist government to attack the "Four Olds" and those who held them by erasing through forced reprogramming that an individual is accountable to God.
The government is god.
The Maoist government told Chinese students that school admissions would no longer be based on merit (math scores, language scores, etc.). Merit, said Mao, is an evil concept. Chinese junior high, high school, and college entrance exams were canceled. Students were assigned to a school based on district, not merit.
The students in China during the Cultural Revolution were taught that all their problems in life were based on class distinctions, and victimology became the cultural norm. Those "black" families (not color, but class) were not truly RED (communist) and must be punished for the sins of their forefathers who owned Chinese buildings, companies, and land during China's past. These bougies made evil capitalistic money off the backs of Chinese factory workers. "Mr. Mao will make things right!" they said.
Sorry, my Red Guard friends (who are now in your 70s and 80s. God alone makes this world "right."
The United States needs a revival of religion.
The old ideas, the old customs, the old culture, and the old habits of the United States really worked!
35 comments:
China does today permit some of 'the old ways'.
My nephew and his wife at their traditional wedding in China:
https://media-api.xogrp.com/images/1064ee09-1fa2-43dc-8be5-1b354b2e069f~rt_360-cr_0.0.1215.1620-rs_1020.h?ordering=explicit
Wade,
We know newspapers like to exaggerate to get more attention. Yesterday’s “Herald Democrat” in Sherman, Texas wrote in large letters:
The decline and fall of the Southern Baptist Convention
“Russell Moore is either a politically disillusioned troublemaker or a prophet in a time of darkness. In a 4,000-word letter charging the Southern Baptist Convention with racism and sexual abuse, he has single-handedly brought the evangelical Christian world to its knees…
Convention has more than 47,000 churches with some 14 million members.”
“Moore wrote his letter in 2020 while serving as president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission.”
“Moore was referring to the case of Jennifer Lyell, who accused a Southern Baptist seminary professor of sexual abuse…by saying it was a consensual affair…where women had been raped and then ‘broken down.’”
Wade, the story took up almost half a page. Do you remember Jennifer Lyell and it was Page Patterson that said he would ‘break her down’?
Russell Moore couldn't bring a wet noodle to its knees. Laughable.
It is interesting that this all has come to be highlighted the week of the SBC Annual Meeting. There is so much "politics" involved that you couldn't cut it with a chain saw.
Every bit of information seems to be politically motivated by one side as opposed to another, and the abuses, injustices, cronyism, embedded in our Convention all suffer the most by not being genuinely addressed by anyone.
There will be no change, no improvement, no correction, and certainly no "revival" due to repentance taking place. The Convention will continue to suffer while wilting on the vine, being denied the blessings and anointing of our Father which is so desperately needed.
Where is Wade? Has he become like myself in the tendency to give up? If so, I will not be the one to criticize him for it.
RB Kuter,
You point out that the SBC has problems. Well, that’s more than our church knows. In fact, we didn’t know ‘OUR’ Convention even had a meeting!
It used to be the Convention was the ‘highlight’ of the year, when churches told their representatives how to vote on issues. I remember years ago when I attended the SBC when one issue was:
https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/sbc-severs-ties-with-bwa-as-theological-concerns-remain/
Page Patterson was the last to speak before the vote. He lied in saying the Baptist World Alliance was “gay friendly”.
RB, who ‘runs our church’ when there’s a ‘church meeting’ about once a year and there hasn’t been a deacons meeting in two years?
Rex Ray, how in the world did Paige get to be so influential among people professing to be followers of Jesus Christ? Really? Wouldn't you think that people would get behind and support leaders whose character, demeanor, personality, portrayed the passion that Jesus Christ had for The Kingdom on earth, His "humble, selfless" model of how to lead, His love for all people and willingness to befriend and minister to the sinners, the lowest of classes, all people of all genders and castes?
Yet we continue to be mesmerized and idolize and elevate those whose character and personalities portray the antithesis of Jesus Christ. Why is that? Truly this must be one reason our collective body is void of God's blessings of unity, empowerment, and fellowship.
Speaking of which, tell me, Brother Rex Ray, how is it that Mohler, President of Southern Seminary, can even be considered as a candidate for President of the Southern Baptist Convention? Would no one bat an eyelash at the fact that he would be an employee of the very employer of which he was President? Am I the only one who sees a conflict of interest here? It is not a matter of whether I prefer him to be the winner or not. I would think that if he does have any credible, personal, Christ-like character he would announce that he immediately resigns from his position in the seminary if running for SBC President.
However, I cannot imagine there not being bylaws or rules prohibiting an employee of any SBC agency from being SBC President. Insanity!
Regarding your church's lack of functioning, not having active deacons, etc., Rex Ray, I cannot imagine anyone in your church having more influence than YOU. If I was a member at your church I would depend on Rex Ray to be the one who set the standard of being active in leading our church.
I cannot imagine your not speaking out continually on matters such as having active deacons who lead our church to be involved in expanding The Kingdom in our area and the world.
Perhaps I misinterpreted your comment, "who ‘runs our church’ when there’s a ‘church meeting’ about once a year and there hasn’t been a deacons meeting in two years?" and you did not intend this to be literally in reference to "your" church body but instead intended the statement to be used regarding the SBC?
RB, I think both you and Rex are aware that a parachurch denomination made up of autonomous local churches in no way reflects the vast majority of Christians who worship and work in those local churches.
Beneath it all is the stark truth that the SBCs future and survival depends entirely on those folk who never attend the annual circus of talking denominational heads and angry lunatic fringes.
If you begin to view the annual SBC meeting as entertainment like the Jerry Springer Show or the World Wrestling Federation, it gives you a much brighter perspective and outlook on the whole shabang.😜
Rex Ray wrote: "
“Moore wrote his letter in 2020 while serving as president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission.”
I was just made aware of this letter when some friends sent it to me yesterday. RR, it seems this letter was not written in "2020" but May 31, 2021.
Still, given the timing of it being written and then "leaked" just days prior to the Annual Meeting, I personally assess it all as being "political" maneuvering with very little sincerity for solving the issues involved.
It all is really as disgusting to me as the facade of sexual abuse, discrimination, racism, etc. Having a bunch of cronies and power players campaigning on matters of corruption, etc., that impact the powerless as part of their strategy to win office is rather ironic and disingenuous.
Talk about "the world" infiltrating "the church"...
Russell Moore, IMO, came into the ERLC with a set of untested spiritual hypotheses about national politics, the nature of the SBC, culture and evangelicals in general.
He got dashed on the rocks of his own cloak and dagger methodology. Got exactly what he dished out, just like PP.
RB:
What we are watching are the spiritual outcomes of galloping creedalism and the SBC "Conservative Resurrgence".
This is exactly what Russell Dilday prophesied. "The denomination will fracture along party lines.
The tipping point came about unbelievably fast. Within 20 years.
What is remarkably ironic, RB and Rex, is that the shibboleths of scriptural "innerrancy" and "sufficiency" are still being articulated in a denomination so scared of the Holy Spirit's work both collectively in churches and individually in the hearts of believers that Christ was written completely out of the SBC faith statement.
I've really got a lot of use for the doctrines of inspiration without Christ as interpreter.....NOT!
We saw a precursor to the SBC's current full-bore creedalism when Adrian Rogers stood clear-eyed some years back and declared that "if we tell seminary professors that pickles have souls, that's what they should teach.
RB Kuter,
One more clue who runs our church. Usually, deacons help in the church taking the Lord’s Supper. One time, pastor did it all.
He is one of the higher paid pastors in this area. Hospice furnishes him a car because that’s his full-time job. He said if forced to choose being pastor or Hospice, he’d choose Hospice.
Our church would seat 300. Our attendance is around 90. Maybe the problem is a multi-millionaire chose him.
Rex Ray, Actually, it would be good if everyone at the SBC Annual Meeting going on right now simply walked away from ALL of the issues of controversy and didn’t even have another word of discussion other than talking about following, loving, being obedient in our personal life, to our Lord Jesus.
Can you imagine if the Moderator got up in front of the meeting and proposed that ALL matters on the Agenda were going to be taken off until some UN-announced date and the rest of the entire meeting was going to be devoted to singing praise to God, dividing into groups of 50 to pray, and seeking God’s forgiveness and mercy for our Convention and churches.
I believe THAT would be a move that would impress upon our Father to return and bless us with His power and presence in a manner which would equip us to do the Kingdom’s work He has commissioned us to do.
Absent of some miraculous move like that, I see little hope in anything of eternal significance being achieved.
Rex Ray, I know you struggle with the presence of power-players who have some how lost focus and distanced themselves from our Jesus. It sure is obvious when that happens, isn't it? You seldom hear them mention the name, "Jesus", or proposing that church members kneel to pray or to go out into the community together to seek opportunities to tell others about the wondrous love of Jesus Christ and His salvation.
I pray for you. You can be the catalyst that brings your congregation back to the center of the sanctuary where they stand in the direct presence and face of Christ. You must pray seeking God's wisdom and power to be upon you and asking for His direction as to how to save your beloved church. Too many congregations are drying up in similar fashion and all because their spiritual compass has been totally knocked off kilter.
Don't give up!
R.B.
I would say, in some cases, neither rush in where angels fear to tread😜
Well..fresh in from SBC 2021.
Among other things in his outgoing address today, SBC President J.D. Greear declares "Belief in the inerrancy of Scripture, is in part, not believing anything to which you cannot assign scripture and verse".
God help us.😂😂😂😂
Scott wrote: "I would say, in some cases, neither rush in where angels fear to tread"
I'm not sure what this advice would be related to, either saying the SBC might be better off not dealing with issues until they got their hearts right or encouraging Rex Ray to be assertive in his church situation.
In either event, your advice to "not rush in where angels tread" is well taken in my case needed to be given frequently. Sometimes it would be better if I just sat still and kept my mouth shut! Just ask my wife!
"Belief in the inerrancy of Scripture, is in part, not believing anything to which you cannot assign scripture and verse".
Scott, I am guessing that he is saying that sometimes people push ideas or principles as being sacred or Biblical when in reality they are not based on Scripture but rather misrepresentations of Scripture. What do you think?
RB: It was a tongue in cheek suggestion to Rex that sometimes getting in church squabbles is not worth the energy. Especially if the church is a family memorial😄
I think Greear will be the perfect Patsy for Mohler's escalated doctrinal litmus tests should he be elected, aka the BFM 2000.
Surprised Greear didn't include verse numbers as part of his instruction. They worship the BIble, but not the Master Interpreter.
RB:
I think many Christians push ideas and principles as being sacred that are not "biblical" via proof-texting and omission of context.
How come "inerrancy" and "sufficiency" hawks in the SBC utilize the same critical tools and theories they condemned previously in the writings of guys like Ralph Elliot and why are we, in spite of SBC views theories of inspiration are we hearing the rumblings about a "leftward drift".
What do ya know? Mohler finishes 3rd in SBC messenger voting.
RB:
I don't know. There are a lot of foaming at the mouth and factionalized preacher boys and seminary students with slogans on their shirts and restaurant lists in hand who live for the yearly "rescuing of the SBC" tussle.
RB
I stood in open continued defiance of Patterson's SBC shenanigans from 1985 until his firing at Southwestern.
Is he a Cbristian, Yes.
Is he a flawed vessel? Yes.
Aren't we all? When even flawed vessels proclaim the simple unembellished Gospel, God's Spirit draws folks to Himself and the Bible comes alive.
Catholics venerate dead saints. Southern Baptists tend to venerate preachers, both living and dead.
That's how.
Scott Shaver,
You mentioned “getting in church squabbles is not worth the energy.”
Preacher asked what would be the best time to visit Belle; morning or evening. I told him evening. (Belle had Lewy body dementia.)
Even though he lived ¼ mile away, he didn’t visit Belle in five years. He visited her a couple of days before she died in a hospital. At that time, she didn’t know our kids or me, but he got his ‘Browne points’.
So, maybe I have a chip on my shoulder in church squabbles.
Rex:
When church squabbles DO erupt, and inevitably they WILL, the folks with "chips on their shoulders" usually do the quickest, cleanest and most constructive end to the nonsense.
Don't stifle your talents, just don't start tbe fights and protect the ladies and kiddos when it gets to the point of taking off the gloves.
Rex. 1/4 mile is a like a stroll to the back pasture fence for a cup of coffee. I am sorry.
Rex, there is a strain of pastor out there who will milk churches and fleece ship while flying several different clerical flags. Wary as serpents, harmless as doves.
Rex:
There is a strain of pastor out there who WILL milk churches and fleece sheep while flying several clerical flags.
Ask Dot😜
Scott Shafer,
I’ve heard, ‘Time changes everything’. Belle met Jesus 9 years ago.
Since then, I’ve ‘buried the hatchet’, and in a way feel sorry for our preacher. He has ADD (attention deficit disorder) really bad. Once, he told the deacons all the church locks had to be changed because someone had stolen the 12 church keys.
I said, a thief would steel one key not all of them. Weeks later, they showed up in his desk. He now has a 2-foot strap on his car keys.
He has changed a lot. He no longer says, my ushers, my deacons, I have a convert. We became friends after I gave him a key to our 10-acre fishing lake.
If we ever have another deacon’s meeting, I’m going to suggest we change the song service a LOT. There’s a big difference between a song leader and a song performer.
Our performer asks everyone to stand, while he and the choir sing seven-eleven songs. That’s 7 words repeated 11 times. (He writes most of them, and sings with his eyes shut.)
Our song books are never used because those songs are NEVER sung. He ends the song service with a prayer. People are still standing. (Not me.) While he prays, he strums his guitar.
Rex:
I understand from a close friend and long-tenured music professor that SBC seminary music programs have been decimated to a large extent and the quality of students has declined. Perhaps your guy represents a current stereotype, if he HAS seminary training.
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