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| Photo: Wikimedia Commons |
Those who say they know how Covid-19 spreads, what cures Covid-19, and when Covid-19 will end are not telling you the truth.
1. Anecdotal stories are used when they conform to one's beliefs.
For example, New York's Dr. Vladimir Zelenko claimed to have kept hundreds of Covid-19 out of the hospital with a cocktail of antibiotics, zinc, and hydroxychloroquine. He says this treatment has given his hundreds of patients "excellent positive results."
Of course, the medical establishment excoriated Dr. Zalenko because there were no scientific peer reviews to verify Dr. Zalenko's claims. In other words, Dr. Zalenko's claims were anecdotal. By definition, anecdotal means "conclusions based on observations and not research."
Yet, when it comes to wearing a mask, we are told over and over again that someone "caught Covid-19 because they did not wear a mask." Even in alleged "scientific articles" about wearing masks, the article is filled with anecdotal stories about catching Covid-19 because someone didn't wear a mask.
Take a look at how "the spread of Covid-19" is reported after big rallies of people crammed close together.
Headlines of articles after Black Lives Matter massive rallies in every state blare "Black Lives Matter Protests Have Not Led To Covid-19 Spikes." But after one President Trump rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, the same headlines blared "Trump Rally Likely Contributed to Covid-19 Cases."
Anecdotal stories are used to prove a point.
I could tell you anecdotal stories all day about how people in our community who have caught Covid-19. My wife is a nurse. She hasn't tested positive for Covid-19. I've tested positive for antibodies. How can two people live in the same house and not both be positive for Covid-19?
I'm ministering to a couple where the wife has Covid-19, but her husband has tested negative. The husband cared for his wife for two straight weeks while she manifested symptoms - closely caring for her without protection - and he has not tested positive. He wore no personal protection.
There's an ethnic family in our community that has two members who have tested positive for Covid-19, but they live in the same house with over a dozen other members of their family, and all the rest of the family members have tested negative. None of them wore masks.
Dr. Joseph Fair in New York was hospitalized in the Covid-19 unit. The hospital assumed he had Covid-19 and did not protect him from other Covid-19 patients. After weeks in the Covid-19 unit with severe lung illness, the doctors discovered Dr. Joseph Fair never had Covid-19 and while exposed to it in the hospital unit, he never came down with Covid-19.
My point is nobody knows how Covid-19 is caught.
I'm not asking you to base any decision on my anecdotal evidence. I respect the decision that you make. If you feel led to wear a mask, then wear a mask. However, please know that those who wear masks will still get Covid-19. There is no scientific evidence that wearing a mask will protect you from Covid-19, and there is no scientific evidence that not wearing a mask means you will come down with Covid-19.
Pay attention to what people are saying who get sick with Covid-19. "We isolated. We wore masks. We don't know how we got Covid-19. We did everything we were supposed to do."
So far, everything about wearing a mask is anecdotal. People tell stories that conform to an agenda.
2. The United States Public Health Service and the U.S. Navy Scientific Study on the Spread of H1-N1.
But those who know history have an advantage.
When the most severe pandemic in world history broke out in the spring of 1918, people had no clue how H1-N1 was transmitted. They thought they knew. They thought it was spread via droplets from a sneeze, or a cough, or a through an infected person in close proximity spreading the disease in their aerosolized breath. Thus, people were told they needed to wear masks to protect themselves.
More than 50 million people died of H1-N1. 1/3 of the world's population became infected.
But like today's Covid-19, all the evidence of how H1-N1 was spread came anecdotally.
Until late 1918.
It was then that the United States Public Health Service and the United States Navy performed a clinical and scientific study to test the transmission of H1-N1. They used 100 young volunteers who were not infected with H1-N1 and intentionally tried to infect them by placing dying and infected patients in the same room and having the sick H1-N1 patients coughing and sneezing and breathing on the 100 subjects, none of whom were masks. The scientists then took even more aggressive measures on the 100 subjects, attempting to infect them with H1-N1.
Of course, the young people thought they were signing their death warrants when they signed up for this scientific experiment, but they all volunteered because they wanted to help their nation.
You can read the results of the scientific research on the transmission of H1-N1 in this PDF report.
Not one subject in the clinical test by the United States Public Health Service and the United States Navy caught H1-N1.Let me put that in simple language. The government attempted to infect 100 healthy patients with the most virulent disease in the history of man, but they couldn't do it.
The scientists involved in the clinical study summarized their findings in a compelling final paragraph of their report.
We entered the outbreak with a notion that we knew the cause of the disease, and were quite sure we knew how it was transmitted from person to person. Perhaps, if we have learned anything, it is that we are not quite sure what we know about the disease.That's humility. We don't know what we don't know.
The problem with Americans in 2020 is that we are arrogant and believe anyone who disagrees with us is wrong.
My suggestion is that we all - including politicians, doctors, city officials, attorneys, and everyone else - find a little humility and stop demanding everyone agree with us.
Take personal responsibility. Follow individual ingenuity as you navigate your family, your business, and your life through these difficult days. And most of all, give other Americans liberty to see it differently than you.
56 comments:
Even though we do not know if what you are saying is reality, I AGREE!
That's my position and the way I am responding to COVID even though I admit that I do not know if wearing a mask keeps a person from contracting the disease or not. I AM convinced that this epidemic is being exploited for political purposes and that exacerbates the entire problem and undermines the credibility of all those "experts" proposing remedies or protection. Their methods of response change with the winds and have proven to be obviously baseless many times due to their first saying one thing and then returning to say the exact opposite.
I also concede to your point about our tendency to promote remedies not yet proven. I did share with you and fellow blog readers the interview with Dr. Bramlett from Texas and his confidence that he was using a sure remedy for COVID 19 patients when applied in early stages. Even though he refers to other nations and their success in using the same method and he cites from his personal experience with his own patients, there apparently is not yet confirmation from his peers to its effectiveness by the general medical community.
One of the fellow-readers pointed this same point out to me when I provided the VDO of Dr. Bramlett's interview. The fellow reader said that we should "wait" until there IS confirmation from follow-up studies and support from the medical community in general. I think this is what Wade is saying on this post too.
I do think that I should not tell others that this IS the cure until it is more supported by additional studies and tests while at the same time saying "Why wait to use a remedy that certainly does have a level of credibility and poses no risk for using it?" If I contract COVID 19 I am going to immediately request that my doctor administer this commonly used medication as an inexpensive, non-risk, means to cure the situation.
Whether it does or not, in my opinion it is better to use this proposed remedy than to "wait" until the virus progresses until you have to be admitted into the hospital to save your life from the pneumonia and other complications that surface due to "waiting" for it to get worse. It's similar to my taking zinc and Vitamin C when I am in situations where I have been exposed to others who have bad colds or feel I am in the earliest stages of contracting a cold. I don't know if zinc and Vitamin C will help, but from my personal experiences it seems to have an effect and it poses no risk and little expense so I don't need to have medical journals and proof offered from the medical community to prove it. I'm gonna' use it! What if it DOES work and I followed the advice of those saying to "Wait until you get more proof"?
Thank you for continuing to keep dialogue on this matter open and contributing what seems to me to be some "sanity" in the midst of madness.
Could this information help someone?
https://coronavirus.health.ok.gov/
Quite a few years ago, I saw a cartoon showing a doctor handing a prescription to his patient. The physician said "This will take care of it, or I miss my guess"!
I gave it to my family doctor next time I saw him. He looked at it, chuckled, and said "Yeah .... that's really how it is!"
I suspect it still is, for both the testers and the observers.
I used to work in a Catholic hospital when I was at university. There was a large sign in the entrance way overhead that said:
"We bandage the wound; God heals it"
that our physicians are highly educated and trained is certified; as are our nurse-practitioners and nurse specialists;
but in the end, I watched my brother, a physician, weep over the ICU bed of my mother in her last hours of life,
knowing that there was nothing more medicine could do for her. . .
but I also saw him with tears in his eyes on another occasion, when we were visiting a Church family graveyard in North Carolina . . . I asked him what made him sad and he pointed to the grave markers of little children who passed away long, long ago;
and he said that likely he knew enough to have been able to help them to live with his modern knowledge as a pediatrician.
Our doctors and nurses are human. But I would respect the knowledge that they have that can help save lives. And, believe me, it is known in the medical field just how much is out of the hands of physicians and rests in the Hands of God Who gives life and receives it back at the end. There are 'boundaries' indeed. May God forgive our foolish ways. And may we be thankful for His mercy.
Christiane, thanks for the link. It does seem to confirm the premises of Wade's post.
The graphs and data on the link clearly portray that all of the exorbitant, extreme, measures taken by the government to stop the spread of this virus, including forced sheltering in place, closing of virtually all businesses and schools, shutting down all sporting events, church and other religious gatherings, disruption in all air travel including domestic flights, and forced mask-wearing in states like North Carolina, have done nothing to slow down the spread of the virus. As a matter of fact, the spread increases exponentially within this restricted environment intentionally created.
As Wade points out, the medical community, pharma and all of those who have been given/taken control obviously have no clue as to how to diminish the aggressive spread of the virus. It's similar to trying to remedy an infestation of millions of locusts by using a fly swatter. But at the same time, the measures forced upon the nation may be serving to enhance the spread of the virus
The problem is that the unsubstantiated attempts by these medical and scientific pharma-advocates compound the damage actually done by the virus. The aged are isolated in rest homes without the love and comforting support they normally have when they are allowed visitors. Critical surgeries and hospital care for the needy is denied under the policies for quarantining hospitals, millions of jobs are lost, hundreds of thousands of businesses close, and mental oppression/instability increased. Why? Certainly not because any of the actions are shown to be effective.
Actually, the data shown on those statistics to which you directed us show that no steps forced to be taken are of any value. As a matter of fact, there is no reason to believe that the opposite is not the case.
The statistics bring one to consider that if this virus had been dealt with as flu seasons are addressed in every non-election year, we may have seen less spread than we have witnessed with this dreaded "COVID 19" virus. Certainly a LOT less damage would have been done to the American people by collateral damage resulting from the intentional orchestration of the inept medical-pharma system.
So how has anyone benefited from the aggressive prescribed steps given to us to address COVID 19? It continues to spread at will, unless perhaps its spread has been fanned by the quarantine-related response by the medical community. So the public has not benefited. But the fame, celebrity, and power rendered to those promoted as being "experts" has reached levels that chill the spine of any liberty-loving citizen.
Then the question arises and begs to be considered; "WHO could possibly have benefited by an exaggerated, overly-aggressive, campaign to keep this panic at its height for the past 6 months?"
In my humble opinion, the key to the answer to that question is "campaign".
Hello Mr. Kuter,
I think we can look at the efforts of some of the European countries who had a national program to lock-down and used masks and also to test (REALLY test) and do tracking to find contacts that might have been exposed.
These countries who worked 'as a nation' together seem to have done much better than what we are seeing here with our hit and miss, very divided ways of working differently in different states,
as we are experiencing a real lack of ability to properly test for the virus combined with a kind of 'political' diversity on what the nation's goals are;
so we are not able to get a handle on the virus the way that the European countries (continental) were able to do.
I think our military take the science VERY seriously, but then again, their missions depend on it, so they have their priorities already 'in place' with protocols that are 'mission' oriented. You might know something about that, and my three military family members are in the middle of it, so I am kept informed of what they are coping with, yes.
So, without a 'national' response to the virus, we can't move forward in a good direction as measured by the rise in infections followed in time (about three weeks later) with an increase in deaths. There is a 'learning curve', so that there are less deaths now, but our compromised individuals and our elderly are at risk ever so much more than those without these markers. It's complex. I don't see a good future without a committed national program to 'get serious'. But this is my own opinion, and I do try to understand how others see what is happening. I am worried for the vulnerable, Mr. Kuter. We may disagree on much, but I think you are not without a humane spirit for those who suffer, and I can respect that.
Thanks for your civil dialogue, Christiane. It's one of those issues to which we may never know the true answer. I personally don't believe we have data that clearly portrays what is effective, if anything, in eliminating or even slowing the spread. The ambiguity of the situation leaves open the door to all sorts of speculation and proposals.
The military is at the mercy of its political accountability sources. Apparently it also has its own level of chaos and confusion as to what it is to do within the confines of its own rank and file. So it cannot be cited as having any credible solution or response. Certainly no European or Asian nation has done anything that provides convincing, real, evidence they have discovered the answer for elimination or even stopping the spread.
The "national response" to which you refer has been inept, as shown by the data on that website you provided and all other data used in the media to keep us at a panic frenzy at the still uncontrolled expansion of the pandemic. So the "future" is certainly not dependent upon whatever continued national response is to be as far as an elimination of the virus.
The only actual control over future damage the "national response" will bring is in terms of the collateral damage inflicted due to a continued bungling of those implementing measures on a Federal, and more importantly, state and local levels of government; NOT by the virus.
support for Trump:
"“The most outrageous lies are the ones about Covid 19. Everyone is lying,” Woolery, 79, wrote Sunday night on Twitter. “The CDC, Media, Democrats, our Doctors, not all but most, that we are told to trust. I think it’s all about the election and keeping the economy from coming back, which is about the election. I’m sick of it.”
Apparently having caught the POTUS’ attention, two more tweets from the original “Wheel of Fortune” host received presidential endorsements, including Woolery’s opinion on schools reopening during a pandemic.
“There is so much evidence, yes scientific evidence, that schools should open this fall. It’s worldwide and it’s overwhelming. BUT NO,” he tweeted.
Trump also shared Woolery’s response to a fan — “Very well said.” — who called congressional Democrats “useless.”"
https://nypost.com/2020/07/13/trump-retweets-chuck-woolery-rant-saying-cdc-is-lying-about-covid-19/
RB Kuter,
I highly suggest you read what Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan did regardng your inaccurate comment that "Certainly no European or Asian nation has done anything that provides convincing, real, evidence they have discovered the answer for elimination or even stopping the spread". It's really simple. Keep the R0 below 1.00 (and obviously many countries have had the answers for doing just that). Maybe we should ask them.
Taiwan had almost Zero case since may 14th, South Korea has had around 50 to 60 cases per day since the beginning of June. And so on:
https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
https://rt.live/
The bottom line is most of the 1st World Countries have done a far, far better job in containing this any the US. And there is no disputing that. The US a diseased pariah like Brazil and Russia. I guess this is what all you Trump Kool-Aid drinkers meant by Make American Great Again (the great Pale Horse of Pestilence and Death I guess).
CM said: "The bottom line is most of the 1st World Countries have done a far, far better job in containing this any the US. And there is no disputing that."
Really? That all these people around the world are getting ill from a single "virus" is yet to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is nothing more than an assumption based on a medical system that is corrupted beyond belief - after all, Satan is still the Deceiver is he not? He's certainly been chained/leashed/restricted since the Resurrection of our Christ, but he is still deceiving the world/nations in many ways that have to do with power, money, and control. It's a shame so many churches are buying into it.
Just like the thousands of doctors who deny that HIV virus causes AIDS there are a growing number of doctors world-wide coming out against the fraudulent science behind COVID-1984.
https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/no-one-has-died-from-the-coronavirus-no-specific-antibodies-have-been-found-pathologist/?fbclid=IwAR2F3ZrZQlwmMAdY9_P_En15cq_Xonsrq0yuTFwKF6nmW_do5WRton-nfds
"No antibodies specific to SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19 have been found by pathologists. Logically, then, doctors are unable to confirm if the virus was ever present in the body."
"There is no scientific proof that the RNA sequences [deemed to match that of the novel coronavirus] are causing what is called COVID-19, i.e. so do we know if the disease actually exists? (ER: this is, of course, a critical point and one which has formed the basis of a legal challenge to the lockdown in the UK)"
"Dr. Stoian Alexov called the World Health Organization (WHO) a “criminal medical organization” for creating worldwide fear and chaos without providing objectively verifiable proof of a pandemic."
Ken
CM, you are right about these countries, South Korea, Taiwan and Japan, taking action to minimize the damage.
Interestingly, those are countries cited by Dr. Bramlett of Texas on the VDO link I referred to a couple of posts prior to this one! As he points out, the medical experts of this country have made a mess of things that have been conducive to this degree of growth in cases we have due to our NOT following the models used in those several countries which he totally supports our doing.
So I stand corrected on my statement that there are "no" nations portraying success in dealing with it.
BUT wait! Amazingly, it was YOU, CM, who said in response to my posting Dr. Bramlett’s endorsement of the successful methods used in South Korea, Taiwan and Japan, “First, it was hydroxychloroquine you were pushing, and now this.” And then you added, “Why don't we wait for randomized clinical trials shall we before you do your victory lap and you crash and burn again like you did with hydroxychloroquine?”
And now you do a total flip-flop and play the same tune as Dr. Bramlett!! Wow! You are one slippery eel to tie down, CM!
RB,
I believe Wade’s post brings out the ‘physical fitness’ of a person is very important to avoid COVID-19.
The link below shows a 32-page book by Nicholas Sampsidis, M.S. His book is based on a larger book written by Kurt. A. Oster MD. Both books state:
“A destructive enzyme in homogenized milk, and not cholesterol, attacks your artery and heart muscle tissue. (When milk is homogenized, this enzyme is made ten times smaller and passes through tissue that makes the inside of blood vessels raw. To cover the ‘damage’ cholesterol makes a ‘scab’. (Cholesterol is found at the ‘scene of the crime’ and gets the blame.)
https://www.amazon.com/Homogenized-Triggers-Heart-Circulatory-Disease/dp/0943550009
Dr. Oster traveled to 13 countries. Page 11 of the book above shows (A) Heart Attack deaths per 100,000, (B) amount of milk in pounds per person, and (C) amount of milk Homogenize.
(A) (B) (C)
Finland 244.7 593 90%
America 211.8 273 95%
Japan 39.1 48 5%
RB Kuter,
I sometimes have trouble understanding the thinking of CM, but after reading your comment on the flip-flop, I see things clearer now. :)
Rex,
Interesting stats about milk consumption. Hmm.. Glad I swore off milk a long time ago.
CM; One more comment then I'm going to bed.
It is interesting to whom you do lay the blame for our miserable situation in the US. I am guessing, given that you refer to me as being a "kool-aid drinking, make America great again, Armageddon-propagating deplorable", that you conclude that the blame lies at the doormat of the White House and that I am blindly in allegiance and brain-dead following that tune because I have a different opinion than yours.
That is the rhetoric that often comes from folks of your persuasion, those elitist, left-brained, socialist ideologues bent on this nation going to a one-party system of government. But less I regress to your level, allow me to say that your brutish portrayal and offensive method of communicating at does lead me to believe that you are at least as unable to assess anything on a practical, rational, intelligent process as you accuse me of being.
Do you actually hold the White House’s response to blame for our COVID mess? How would you have had it respond? Do you not believe that the American scientific/pharma community has been feeding all of the information and advice into the White House since last January? Were you buried in a fallout shelter when there were daily White House briefings lasting for hours, continuing for months, when the President conceded the forum to those acclaimed American scientific and epidemiologists who were directing the path that must be taken by THIS nation?
Their advice was followed with the medical equipment they said must be manufactured, the emphasis on creating effective test kits to be provided, multiple manufacturers re-configuring entire plants to make tens of thousands of ventilators said to be essential, hotels made into hospitals and hospital ships mobilized to accommodate the hordes of patients assured to come, millions of masks, and gloves, all at the expert advice of that scientific community. Then of course the shelter in place and shut down of the entire nation! All of this was done in response to the genius direction given by those "scientific gurus" depended upon by the White House AND the opposing forces of your side, to be credible sources giving direction to minimize the crisis.
Were you playing virtual video games when the President was jumping through virtually every hoop that those "experts" were putting before him while the leftist-Marxist opponents were striving to find reason to claim that he was NOT following "scientific"-based remedies?
Were you totally turned into the CNN hype machine so that you did not see the media attack frenzy that took place ANY TIME the President even proposed that alternative methods be considered as a possibility to make some measure of progress?
Are you so tunnel vision as to not be able to imagine what would have been the reaction if the President had said, in defiance of all of those medical/pharma experts, "Hey! Why don't we try what they're doing in Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan instead of shutting down this nation completely and following the ineffective steps that you, Fauci, are prescribing?"?? Why, you and all of your opposing forces would have declared the President to be a total imbecile worthy of institutionalizing.
So when it comes to us "kool-aid drinking suckers" who blindly follow the enchanting tune of various flute playing minstrels, it seems you have been totally enamored with one playing a tune of his own. You are following that muse as one who is mesmerized by his tune so as to render you as being putty in a fog, only, your fiddler plays the tune from the other side of the track.
I think our dialogue is so absurd so as to be comic. Thanks for the entertainment. Sure hope it is not taken poorly by other readers. It is meant by me to be a vibrant, well-intended, exercise between two players on opposite sides. God bless you, CM!
RB,
Glad you stopped drinking homogenized milk.
I’ve ridden many miles in ‘bicycle-rides’ with a large sign over my head that went from the handlebars to the back fender that had: “Stop Heart Attacks caused by Homogenized Milk”. (Also had the book on milk attached. Cross-winds were murder.)
My twin brother didn’t take my advice and had a heart attack. Pain was so bad; he wouldn’t wait for the ambulance to drive 30 miles from Phoenix Arizona. Red Lights in town were set at 45 mph. No traffic at two in the morning, so he drove 90 and made it to the hospital before passing out.
Advice to CM:
When engaged with RB in the ‘battle of the wits’, don’t come half-prepared. :)
RB and Wade,
Let me explain what Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan did:
1) They instituted travel restrictions earlier than the US
2) Extremely aggressive testing and contact tracing procedures
3) Isolation and quarantine for those exposed.
4) If you see all the news videos of those countries, EVERYONE is wearing a mask
They all dealt with SARS (and other epidemics) years ago so they actually have a clue on how to get the R0 below 1.00. And they instituted similar with COVID.
NONE of this has anything to do with non-randomized control trials of drugs and you bloody well know it.
Rex Ray,
I do not need your comments from the peanut galley.
“There is no scientific evidence that wearing a mask will protect you from Covid-19, and there is no scientific evidence that not wearing a mask means you will come down with Covid-19.”
Here’s what I’m having a hard to following. With a lack of specific scientific studies on covid-19, wouldn’t it make sense to follow the guidelines suggested by the CDC and others which apply to viruses in general? I mean, the bar set by the statement above would require a start from ground zero on the common cold and influenza every season. Or every time a new car model comes out we should go back to drivers ed? Are you suggesting that there is no scientific evidence for the spread of viruses in airborne body fluid?
I agree there are hundreds of factors involved whether a particular person gets sick from covid-19 or not. But isn’t the idea to reduce the exposure to as many people as possible? That seems like a pretty well established statistical/scientific principle.
And then to make matters worse, even when the specific scientific evidence is there, it’s all called into questions via the conspiracy theory filter. I mean, there’s plenty of science behind man made climate change and no self-respecting Trump supporter believes that either, right?
Thanks
Paul
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Rex Ray, I am regret not having expressed to you my sincere wishes for God's blessings upon you and your family in the loss of your brother from this world as he moved in advance to that home where we're headed. I know you were close. I lost two of my 5 brothers, the oldest. I miss them but probably not like you miss your brother since there was a significant age difference between these two brothers and myself. I'm guessing that your loss would be more like mine should the two or three brothers closer in age to me pass on before I do. I grew up close to these three and we were always into each other's business and aggravating each other and enjoying doing so many of those things together that brothers do. Since I was the youngest, all three of these guys were my models and mentors, always expressing love by their concern, interest, care and protection they gave me. Brothers are more like that in expressing their love than by displaying it in the "spoken" word.
I talk about my brothers because I do want you to know that perhaps I can relate somewhat to your loss and grieve with you, while at the same time celebrate with you the amazing contribution having your brother gave to your life. We will all benefit from hearing your anecdotes about you and your brother. That is the mark that he left behind as he moved on to that place where I know he can't wait to welcome you and you will no doubt be doing some hilarious things that will make God laugh.
Wade, if masks do not reduce transmission of viruses, I have a challenge for you:
Get major surgery. Have your appendix out. Break a leg. Need pressure relieved on your brain, needing a burr hole. Anything surgical. Or better yet, head out west and get in a massive car wreck. Be bleeding all over the place. Let my child tend you on the side of the highway, this time without a mask, gloves, or any other herd health sanitary measures designed to protect YOU from HIM.
But give the surgeons and the nurses the right to decide for themselves whether or not to mask. Then come back in a few weeks and let us know how it went for ya.
Point blank: you are peddling junk science even if your wife is a nurse. When it comes to herd health, masks and distancing work. Period. They are not to protect the mask wearer, but to protect others. Same with spitting on the sidewalk. Anti spitting laws did much to rein in the old TB epidemics. Quarantine handled measles when we had no vaccines.
So no, nope, nada, never will stop calling out those who put their own personal agendas over the health of others. They are money changers needing tossed out of the temple on their tin ears.
What you are peddling is more post modern drivel. The decision about masks is not for the individual to make based on what they believe is best for "them." It IS a herd health decision, and we actually KNOW masks limit the spread of the droplets and aerosols. So yeah, it is high time to call out all those who want this to be a "decide for yourself" issue.
I cannot tell you how often I have heard drunks cite statistics to "prove" driving drunk is actually harmless, and then end it with "but hey, if you think it hurts just don't do it."
Here's the truth: mask up for others. Wash your hands frequently. And for heaven's sake isolate and quarantine if you have symptoms or test positive.
If you cannot mask due to medical or mental problems, then JUST STAY HOME.
linda
sorry - one more point - only kinda-sort-of tongue in cheek:
'Headlines of articles after Black Lives Matter massive rallies in every state blare "Black Lives Matter Protests Have Not Led To Covid-19 Spikes." But after one President Trump rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, the same headlines blared "Trump Rally Likely Contributed to Covid-19 Cases."'
Everyone is wearing a mask in your BLM photo. That's the answer to your question.
thanks
Paul
"wouldn’t it make sense to follow the guidelines suggested by the CDC"
Paul, one would hope that CDC was totally credible and maybe it's the best we have, but its reputation has really been tainted of late in a manner that portrays it to be unworthy of blind trust. Here's some reasons why:
2017 USA Report- CDC "has faced congressional hearings and secret government sanctions over its sloppy lab safety practices..keeping secret large swaths of information about dozens of recent incidents involving some of the world's most dangerous bacteria and viruses."
And get this bit of information from that same article:
"CDC scientists apparently lost a box of deadly and highly-regulated influenza specimens." /"The CDC blacked out many details including the types of viruses and bacteria involved in the mishaps"/"The CDC also redacted every word in a lab accident report from December 2013 that apparently involved a dangerous strain of influenza virus."/"..people involved in the agency's controversial work in 2005 using reverse genetics to reconstruct the 1918 flu pandemic virus"/"In one email, the first word in the short subject line remained. It says: 'Missing' and is followed by a short redaction that is the name of a pathogen." The email discusses whether its necessary to report the "missing" pathogen with federal select agent. "The only types of influenza viruses that would require reporting to select agent regulators are deadly strains of avian influenza and specimens of the resurrected 1918 flu virus."
Given the sloppy handling of its security and even losing such potentially deadly pathogens with no idea where it went, how it was taken, or where it ended up AND the intentional and extreme measures taken by CDC to cover-up all details, one wonders if this COVID 19 originated in China and even if it did, was it labeled, "Made in the USA".
If you review the records of the past several CDC top executives you will find it full of corruption and all sorts of cause for being doubtful and cynical of CDC's credibility.
WHO is no doubt worthy of our backing out of support due to its suspect corruption and ineptness, but taking a brief glance at our own CDC leads one to believe that this organization should likewise be unfunded and shut down and another source be created to fill the need for this type of research.
maybe it's time to lay aside the 'blame game' and the conspiracy theories and even the politics long enough to think about the reality facing what our hospitals are being asked to handle,
and turning instead to finding solutions for helping alleviate some of the worst of their problems
we get sick or Mom can't breathe or Papa's chest hurts badly and we 'go to the ER' in the middle of the night,
and there we are taken in and cared for along now with ever so many others in need of help.
Let's put down all stones and get to work to make things better . . . if at the local level, you are not suffering, give thanks BUT THEN pray for those who suffer, at least
if you are committed to the beliefs of conspiracy theories, I can understand how they attract people, sure;
but for the moment there is REAL trouble in our land and people ARE suffering. . . .
we need to face reality and get to work, and try to alleviate some of this misery that has come upon vulnerable people . . . let us do what we CAN to make things better in our land
And YES, I am as guilty as the next one for having failed to be focused on the problem at hand
RB Kuter:
“one would hope that CDC was totally credible and maybe it's the best we have, but its reputation has really been tainted of late in a manner that portrays it to be unworthy of blind trust.”
Perhaps you are correct. But I don’t think wearing a mask requires “blind trust”. If the CDC recommends you wash your hands after using the restroom, are you saying we should not blindly trust that advice and instead attribute that recommendation to sloppy security and corruption?
Is there a big debate among health organizations regarding a mask’s ability to reduce transmission of viruses?
This gets right to the heart of my problem with a lot of right-wing messages. There's always a distraction from the point. BLM is not about systemic racism, it's about socialism. Wearing a mask is not about health, it's about "top executives" and "corruption".
Here’s what Liberty University has to say:
How is the virus spread?
The virus is spread person-to-person.
• Airborne respiratory droplets from sneezing and coughing.
What are steps I can take to remain healthy?
• Read about more steps on the CDC’s website.
Thanks
Paul
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/06/opinions/wear-the-damn-mask-pearlman/index.html
Paul, let's just try peeling off the onion skin layer of "politics", media hype, and other static noise that only serve to distort and complicate the issue and begin discussing the situation from the standpoint of yours and my logic and rational thinking.
I think we both agree that wearing a mask filters out undesirable air-born critters that we don't want to enter our bodies through ventilation. I believe that I would feel more comfortable wearing a mask on an airplane to minimize risk of getting another person's cold or flu. Doctors NEVER perform surgery without a mask. I wear a mask when I'm cutting the lawn to keep out the dust and debris from grass clippings. When I don't, it's likely that I will keep my wife awake that night by my coughing before I take an antihistamine.
But I don't wear a mask all the time. I usually don't wear one when on a plane even though I think it might be of benefit. Often I choose not to use it.
I don't like to touch door handles going into public buildings are restrooms. I'll usually put a tissue or my shirt tail between my hand and the surface of the handle. I did that way before Corona.
These are practical steps and really not debatable. One issue that does complicate this is the intervention of government to sometimes make it a law as to what we do. That's disconcerting and an issue, but I have no problems with the idea that wearing masks, rubber gloves, spraying sanitizer, etc, kills germs.
But in regards to CDC and other sources injecting proposals for aggressive regulations and policies that have huge impact on the way we do business, our personal life style,recreation, etc., they have proven in my estimation not to be worthy of our unmitigated trust.
The reality is that there are those several nations that have obviously taken steps that have effectively rendered them safe from this pandemic without the extraordinary steps to shut everything down. Have you EVER heard any of these experts like CDC and others, propose that we seriously look into what these other countries have done and try it? No! Instead we have been given this direction that has led to things getting worse than ever imagined. So all of their proposals have proven to be useless. All of the damage done, lives lost, and despair caused as a result of our following the direction of these professional, scientific experts.
These are the issues that cause many of us to be very cynical about ALL of the data we're given, the media hype that elevates the fear and panic and the continued shutdown of our economy leading to even worse circumstances if continued. To continue to follow these experts who should be disqualified due to their failures would be "insane" as defined by failing and then doing the exact same thing expecting different results.
We need "new" ideas coming from logical thinkers who say things like, "Hey! Let's do what those nations are doing who are successful!"
"We need "new" ideas coming from logical thinkers who say things like, "Hey! Let's do what those nations are doing who are successful!""
RBK - ever watch a Matt Graham survival show? No hand washing. Drinks out of almost any stream without getting sick. I have a friend in his 70's like him. Eats dirt. :) The germ theory has caused most Americans to be overly sterile and our immune systems have paid a heavy price.
http://whale.to/vaccine/shea1.html
Ken
RB Kuter,
Maybe you should research what exactly did this other nations did. Here is summary of what Japan did:
https://www.ft.com/content/7a4ce8b5-20a3-40ab-abaf-1de213a66403
Here is one reason from the article; "Without any official instruction, the public began hand-sterilising, wearing masks and social distancing of its own accord." The Japanese (and many other cultures) understand the the inidividual is part of a community. Something most Americans seem to not grasp.
Gee I wonder why? Maybe because Americans were too self-absorbed, selfish, and me-centered? The idol of the American is self. And I think you all know what the Bible says about what are to do to self so I will not repeat it here.
This guy isn't joking about wearing masks: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qc_K-H6bti0
Ken
CM, got it. I read the former link you provided. Good stuff.
You said, "Maybe because Americans were too self-absorbed, selfish, and me-centered?"
I'm guessing you are American. Don't be so hard on yourself.
Ken, when watching my 4 and 2 year old grandsons it makes me wonder how any of us survive our childhoods. God is a GREAT engineer, huh?!
Rex Ray, I regret the delay in expressing to you that I pray for God's comfort and peace to be with you and the family following your brother's exit from this realm into the next. I have lost two of my five older brothers, the two oldest. The grief was real but the age difference between myself and those two was so great as to not result in our having the close relationship that is present between my still surviving three brothers and myself. I suspect that you and your brother were very close and grew up with each other as I did with these three of my brothers still living.
Brothers don't really express their love so much verbally. Older brothers express their love by taking care of we younger guys, teaching us, mentoring us, protecting us and yes, aggravating us a lot too. We younger brothers express our love for the older bubbas by tagging along at their heels and asking endless questions. But it's all done in a very natural loving manner that is so unique from all other kinds. A real treasure orchestrated by God.
Maybe you will introduce me to your brother when we all arrive where he now awaits your arrival. I would love to see you guys together!
RB,
Thanks for your words about my brother. When we were 22, we’d not been apart longer than three days when he went to Alaska his senior year in college. I felt like I’d lost my right arm.
He lived there many years; got married, taught school, and raised a family. He came back to Texas when his kids started to college. We didn’t see each other very much as we lived miles apart.
A few years ago, by falling, and other things going wrong, he became paralyzed from the waist down. One of his daughters cared for him in Seattle. On our last visit there when we were leaving, I overheard him say, “I’m sure going to miss Rex.”
Yes in heaven, the Bible says we will know as we are known.
Thanks again.
RB,
Being around my brother was never dull. To illustrate, he had a strange sense of humor. Once, he became disgusted having to wait so long after his appointed time to see a doctor. There was one other person; an old lady in a wheelchair who had gone to sleep.
“How you folks doing?”
“I’m OK, but that lady died!”
“Is she really dead?”
“Dead as a hammer!”
The doctor rushed out and came back with another doctor. They woke her up.
Today, we got a ‘Thank You card’ from my niece’s adopted son, Lim, who had graduated from high school. In the first grade, he got in trouble, and was being scolded by the principal. Lim question who the principal was.
“I’m the boss of this school!”
“Does that include the playground?”
To get on the subject of face mask, I told a nurse today at the VA, that a face mask prevented you from breathing fresh air. (They have to wear them all the time at work.) She said she never had headaches, until they were required to wear one.
RB,
I guess all the talking about my brother caused me to dream. He was talking to our Dad on the phone. It took a little bit for me to remember he doesn’t need a phone anymore.
GLORY
Rex Ray, that story about the sleeping "dead" lady in the doctor's office waiting room gave me belly laughs! What a blessing to have had such a close relationship with a brother for all those years. I think the best way of dealing with the loss of a loved one is to think of it as being like it was when your brother moved away to college. You knew he was not with you at the time but was still living somewhere else and you would eventually get together again. Like my Dad always loved to say about such delayed events, "You know what the cat said when he got his tail cut off? WON'T BE LONG NOW!"
so thankful when good people get along with one another :)
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/14/lindsey-graham-fauci-trump-feud-vpx-new.wis
we Americans need to go forward in a good direction for the sake of the COUNTRY, yes
https://youtu.be/OUUOq1ksiQQ
Way to go Peggy Hall! She exposed the lies and fraud behind the CDC's mask requirements and got her CA county's health director fired and the subsequent mask law overturned! Talk about sloppy sneaky science! OSHA already had specific oxygen regulations in place before this plandemic hit.
You can tell when a person is making headway by all the fact checkers coming out of the woodwork and lying about her research.
We've never been complying whatsoever with wearing them, and have had some good conversations with store managers and the public as a result. Getting their wheels turning. My youngest got a prominent grocery chain to change their policy by standing up for her rights. We are proud of her!
Ken
@ Ken
well, I took the bait and watched the video. Did you mean that as a joke? If that is the case, I guess the joke is on me because I just wasted a bunch of time.
Here's what I got from the video:
1) The studies cited do not specifically conclude that a mask reduces transmission of covid-19.
2) Merck helped fund something.
What's so wrong about that? Once more data is available then conclusions can be much more targeted. I just don't get it - who expects global, long term, large scale mask studies to have been completed already?
Regarding Merck helping fund something - the video referenced explains how to make a mask from stuff laying around your house. I'm sure that is a huge boon for Merck..?
And all this coming from someone who on one hand says Americans are over sanitized (which I happen to agree with), and on the other hand is worried about the negative health affects of wearing a mask.
thanks
Paul
In this mask debate, people tend forget there are whole other fields of science doing research. Namely those involved in computational flow dynamics, fluid mechanics, aerosol and particle science. Here are but 2 papers:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925753520302630
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935120307143?via%3Dihub
the ONLY reason to call the virus a HOAX is because in all this trouble, the economy has been disrupted and it DOES have an effect on how the President is seen as a 'leader',
HOWEVER,
supposing that IF we had come down very hard on the virus as a nation, with isolating, with 'sheltering in place', with testing, with tracking all contacts, and using fourteen-day quarantine time-outs for those who were exposed;
THEN maybe our nation would have got a handle on the virus while it still had a chance to do it before all heck broke loose and it spiraled up to the point where even 'red' states now can't handle the medical needs of its citizens as the hospitals become overwhelmed
strangely, by avoiding the harsh 'remedy' in the very beginning,
we might have actually lost our chance to save the economy, which now seems in crisis;
so that the early efforts to 'deny' a problem,
and the 'plan' to delay or 'slow down' testing actually BACK-FIRED and what was meant to help the President has in fact brought our nation into a much worse situation, where in all honesty, many Americans are now worried about their OWN well-being and the well-being of their elderly and their school-age children MORE than they are concerned for the political fortunes of Donald Trump . . .
strange how in 'denial' and avoiding reality, the whole thing blew up, but if anyone wants to know the TRUTH about how serious the 'virus' is,
look at the hospitals in need of beds and the 'red' states now calling for those 'mobile' mortuary trucks that can store the bodies of the dead because the morgues are also overwhelmed in some areas. . . .
might have been better to deal with the problem straight up then to rely on 'pseudo-science' and 'denial' and conspiracy theories;
and to deal with it AS A NATION, not piece-meal . . . the virus does not respect borders of localities or 'state lines', so once the virus was 'here' perhaps a national response to dealing with SERIOUSLY straight-forwardly could have helped . . .
?????
sorry for rant,
but I thought some of you should know what a lot of Americans are thinking as we see so many communities and states in distress now. Concern for one man's political future? That is not the priorities of many Americans, no. It's putting food on the table, and paying the bills, and taking care of our families and yes, caring about the health of our neighbors and our communities. I don't think it's 'too late', but the solution, if there is to be one, must be 'epic' and 'national' and 'thorough' and above all, humane.
Thanks for letting me express my opinion here, WADE. I thought I should make clear what I am hearing and seeing although many will disagree and many would see the same things differently,
but thanks anyway for the privilege to speak.
RB,
In your first comment on this post, you said, “ It's similar to my taking zinc and Vitamin C when I am in situations where I have been exposed to others who have bad colds or feel I am in the earliest stages of contracting a cold.”
I’m in the same ‘boat’ with you on that. I take zinc and C plus 13 more. I believe taking vitamins helps makes a person healthier. I’ll illustrate what vitamin E will do.
When I was around fifty, I’d been taking E, for twenty years, when a doctor put some of my blood between two pieces of glass and watched it with a microscope. He said, “Most people’s blood oxidizes in two minutes, yours took eight.”
I know that doesn’t mean much, so I’ll illustrate it another way. At age 25, I was one of the lifeguards in the Air Force at Sherman, Texas. For fun, we’d see who could hold their breath the longest. My best time was two minutes.
When I was around fifty, I was swimming the length of a pool underwater. Some guys I didn’t know asked how long could I hold my breath. “I don’t know.” They had a stopwatch and wanted to find out. Afterwards, one said, “Hey, he could go scuba diving with us without a tank.” (Joking of course.)
I was wearing a stop watch, took ten deep breaths, went down and held on to the ladder. Both watches stopped at four minutes and eight seconds. (Can’t remember my last cold.)
CHRISTIANE,
Are you one of the ones that criticized Trump for stopping travel from China when the virus started?
Oh, by the way, who was President when the 1817 virus killed so many Americans?
Maybe we could blame him.
I am reminded of Rudyard Kipling’s poem “IF” (You will be a man, my son.)
The first line:
“If you can keep your head when all about you
Are loosing theirs and blaming it on you.”
"What's so wrong about that? Once more data is available then conclusions can be much more targeted. I just don't get it - who expects global, long term, large scale mask studies to have been completed already?"
Paul, no joke. Peggy is a pastor's wife who runs a health business and wouldn't want to waste anyone's time. She simply pointed out CDC's recommendations are based on inconclusive evidence and conflicts of interest, but they want us to believe these are hard proven facts. She goes on in other videos to show how absurd governor's executive orders (you must obey) are based on CDC's recommendations and OSHA's regulations - this is tyrannical/freedom destroying governing.
I was incorrect in stating she changed her county's laws as she rightly points out none of these executive orders went through the legislative process, and therefore aren't "law". She changed policy.
Much like what's taking place in the majority of churches today. If you want maturity and spiritual prosperity/health - suggest all you want, but don't make bogus laws and standards to control people and bind their conscience (which is the antithesis to freedom/liberty in Christ).
Ken
I will also mention very few are mentioning that forcing the public to wear masks has a tremendous destructive psychological toll on people - especially younger children who are developing. An increasing level of distrust from person to person in society is flourishing. We are being manipulated at so many levels.
Not only that, but those in power with agendas are able to monitor how many noncompliant people make up society, and thereby allow them to adjust their game plan to control and manipulate accordingly. Don't forget - 265 million people were genocided in the twentieth century by the hands of their own governments because they followed orders, which will be a drop in the bucket during our time if we don't resist before it's too late.
Ken
Ken,
Great comments and links. Thanks for keeping us informed.
People may not agree, but you are giving solid material to help others think through issues rather than blind acceptance of authority.
That's the way it should be.
Rex Ray, so, you attribute your amazing ability to go airless with Vitamin E?
Whatever it is, not breathing for 4 minutes is amazing!
RB,
Years ago, my pulse was around 40. Running hard would get it up to about 80. Then I started taking a medicine for allergies. Soon my pulse was going so fast I couldn’t count it. I stopped running because I thought I was going to faint.
The medicine was taken off the market because it caused fibrillation. (That’s when the heart is vibrating so fast it’s not pumping blood.)
A doctor said there was nothing wrong with my heart. I told him it was fine unless I was doing hard exercise, so he had me wear a heart monitor.
I got on an exercise bicycle and tried to kill myself. :)
Next day the doctor was puzzled. He said, “Your heart was beating 312 times a minute for over three minutes; you should have passed out.”
“My watch recorded holding my breath four minutes.”
“You looked at your watch wrong.”
Now I take a blood thinner. My third pacemaker is set on 55. Moderate exercise gets my pulse up to 90. I still take vitamin E.
Rex,
Some allergy medications have a stimulant effect, which of course can increase heart rate.
And of course, I am sure you know to maintain proper hydration, stretch before physical exercise, the usual drill.
CM,
EXERCISE? At 88, my favorite exercise is stretching out in a recliner. :)
I walk with two canes due to a raw ‘sore’ on my ankle that’s been draining for years.
I’ve had cancer removed from my eyebrows and cheek. I take medicine for prostate cancer.
Today I stopped wearing my seatbelt over my shoulder but put it under my arm so it doesn’t touch my right breast nipple because of pain. Will see a doctor.
CM,
EXERCISE? At 88, my favorite exercise is stretching out in a recliner.
I walk with two canes due to a raw ‘sore’ on my ankle that’s been draining for many years.
I’ve had cancer removed from my eyebrows and cheek. I take medicine for prostate cancer.
Today I stopped wearing my seatbelt over my shoulder but put it under my arm so it doesn’t touch my right breast nipple because of pain. Will see a doctor.
Rex Ray,
Thanks for the update. Since you are limited somewhat in your mobility, I found these on a quick online search:
https://www.vivehealth.com/blogs/resources/chair-exercises-for-seniors
https://californiamobility.com/21-chair-exercises-for-seniors-visual-guide/
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