I received an insightful, concise email from a respected Southern Baptist Convention leader regarding the new Baptist Identity Movement in the SBC. With permission, and on the condition of anonymity, I share the email with you below.
___________________________
Dear Wade,
Technically, those identifying themselves as part of the “Baptist Identity” Movement (BIM) are what might better be defined as “Neo-Landmarkists.” This ideology (BIM) tends to distance themselves from the old style J.R. Graves Landmarkists who believed you could directly trace Baptists back to the Apostolic Church through a succession of supposed like-minded churches and movements. Modern day BIM personnel eschew this type of ideology in favor of a more watered down version of traditional Landmarkism.
Nevertheless, the BIM seems strangely out of step with the needs of Southern Baptists in the early 21st century. At a time when Southern Baptists face a world and an America that is demographically different from its core constituency of white Southerners, the BIM has chosen to look inward at the Baptist community itself for its work and mission. The movement’s quest for a purer more disciplined Baptist orthodoxy and orthopraxy has consumed most of their energies at a time when evangelicals face very real dangers from radical Western secularism and emergent Islam (both the missionary and jihadist varieties).
Baptists are called to witness to a lost and spiritually-dying world. When Baptists should be thinking about finding a broader consensus to face these spiritual threats, instead, many have chosen to wage cultural warfare with our own. Baptists have always forged their own identity through consensus of the entire community rather than allowing a fringe element to determine that identity for the entire community. This was true of the pro-Missionary Baptists of the early 1800s who overcame the anti-missionary impulses of some Baptists, the Southern Baptists of the late 1800s who turned back the forces of Old Landmarkism, and the Conservatives of the 1970s and 1980s who wrestled the Convention away from the moderates. Wade, in our own states both you and I thought that this latter battle for identity was important.
Fortunately, the Baptist Identity Movement does not speak for all Southern Baptists and soteriology and eschatology prevent even those that might agree in ecclesiology from mounting a truly unified movement. Baptist Identity people in various state conventions, for instance, remain split on these issues, and strangely enough, many of them who look to Southern Seminary for inspiration took a dim view of the John 3:16 conference and hold pre-millennial dispensationalism in disdain.
I remain hopeful that eventually Southern Baptists will view the Great Commission as more important than trying to police Baptist orthodoxy and orthopraxy.
Blessings,
____________ (anonymous by request)
212 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 212 of 212"Thy Peace" seems like a sincere person. He tries to contribute to the discussion, and this is what he gets for it? Is it any wonder he said he doesn't go to church? If all ministers were like the lot of you, I wouldn't go to church either!
"Thy Peace," there are plenty of places where healthy discussion of Baptist and Christian topics takes place without attacks from the very people who are supposed to be your brothers in Christ.
"cb," you are a disgrace to Baptists everywhere, and you owe "Thy Peace" an apology. (I'm sure hell will freeze over before he gets it.)
Now, disregard everything I said and attack me for not signing my name.
Cowardly Anon
Thy peace,
That was a very mature response to CB. I think you once remarked that you were a new Christian. May I suggest reading a Psalm before and after reading this blog?
Even in all this mess, God is totally Soveriegn. :o)
Much love to you,
Lin
People calling others hypocrites all the while pretending like they are not one themselves reminds me of the man who told the pastor of the local church that he didn't go to church because it was full of hypocrites.
The pastor said to the man, "Come join us. We always have room for one more."
SL1M
Forgot to sign my name in the above comment which seems to be all important in understanding argumentation of late for how can we argue against the man (excuse me Debbie) if we do not know his name?
Phil in Norman
SL1M, Luke, Lin, Anon and others: Thanks for your comments. I am not put off by CB.
I was drawn to Wade's site, because of what happened to Sheri Klouda. I like Pastor Wade and to me he sounds very genuine and I am learning a lot from this site. I like the questioning and search for answers and truth.
The odd thing is, I am being pulled to people who are being criticized. Examples : Tom Ascol and James White. I was not interested in Calvinism before. But now I am curious. I like the posts made by Tom Ascol and aplogetics of James White.
I am learning much. I am also learning to ignore comments that are not beneficial.
Lin: May I suggest reading a Psalm before and after reading this blog?
Reply: A big dose of Pepto Bismol helps, too.
Cowardly Anony,
You have never spoken truer words than these;
"cb," you are a disgrace to Baptists everywhere, and you owe "Thy Peace" an apology. (I'm sure hell will freeze over before he gets it.)"
except for the "you owe "Thy Busybody" an apology" part.
Lin,
Psalms would be good for Thy Busybody to read. That is sound advice. There is much in them about sowing discord and being a busybody.
And you are also right: God is "sovereign" even in the messes Thy Busybody seeks to make by being a busybody.
And know I love you too.
SL1M,
We do have room for you. Feel to come visit with us anytime.
Thy Busybody,
I am glad you are learning much. But, please do not ignore those comments directed toward you about your need for the biblical gospel. You must be born-again to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Anony with the Pepto,
Good advice.
One and All,
Merry Christmas to all of you from the lowest among you. See you next year. And remember, if you are down this way....well, you know the rest by heart, but I'll say it anyway; Lunch is on me. :-)
Love you all,
cb
You said it, Luke.
There is no "grace and truth" here, but only a mud wrestling contest in priestly vestments. Such a picture of Christianity presented to the lurking world! Such pathetic childishness on the part of "elders"! And God have mercy on those who express disagreement on certain untouchable topics here.
This squabbling over a particular brand of Churchianity is ridiculous. Instead of allowing each other to disagree on disputable matters, we build denominations to cloister ourselves and force others to yell "unclean!" in our presence so as not to catch their "disease".
Believers afraid to identify themselves over money or prestige is as clear an indicator of worldliness as any. If God is in a mission or ministry, can lack of funding from a board of directors stop it? Can the threatened loss of credentials stop a true servant of God? Is there anyone left who will stand on principle and not mince words to satisfy benefactors?
Watching these spiritual CEOs known as "pastors" (which appears only once in scripture and is listed as a spiritual gift, not an office) tear apart others as a wolf would tear apart sheep is sickening. What shepherd can't tell sheep from wolves? What shepherd beats the sheep and ignores the wolves? The "shepherds" here have grown fond of the taste of mutton!
With "shepherds" like these, who needs wolves?
"Lin,
Psalms would be good for Thy Busybody to read. That is sound advice. There is much in them about sowing discord and being a busybody.
And you are also right: God is "sovereign" even in the messes Thy Busybody seeks to make by being a busybody.
And know I love you too."
CB, why always a caustic reply?
Perhaps we should ALL ask ourselves if we are sowing discord....and not just the new Christian here.
despized said it best:
With "shepherds" like these, who needs wolves?
Louis,
I’ve often agreed with your wisdom, but not you’re saying:
“The most uninformed comment on the blog was that the ‘moderates’ were as theologically conservative as the unnamed writer’s great-grandmother.”
You based your statement on: “The issue was how much theological liberalism the moderates would allow to exist at SBC institutions.”
Let’s see now, how much theological liberalism was there?
Patterson had a list of these professors and all could fit in one Volkswagen.
But this was enough ‘scare tactics’ to scream and holler liberals were ruining the SBC.
Let me ask you, whose at fault for ruining the SBC today?
I think CB Scott is jealous of Thy Peace. As a 'new' Christian, Thy Peace has got a real sense of what it means to be a Christian with integrity.
CB Scott is only a 'Christian' when it suits him. At other times, he is a raving bully with contempt for others and uses his words like stones. Vicious.
May I suggest that behavior is a lack of Christian integrity on CB's part?
When he can treat all people with decency and respect, THEN, he will be able to speak to someone like Thy Peace and not look like a jealous angry mocking town-bully.
Maybe the Baptism debate has been approached from the wrong direction. Instead of starting with our disagreements, let's start with what Baptists/evangelicals and orthodox Christians AGREE upon: All persons who believe and have faith in Christ as their Savior should follow his command and be baptized as soon as possible.
So the next question is: Can an infant believe and have faith?
If I can prove to you from Scripture that infants not only can but DO believe and have faith, would you accept infant baptism as Scriptural?
http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com/2013/09/the-bible-says-that-infants-can-have.html
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