This is my 670th post at Grace and Truth to You, and unless circumstances warrant an occasional post in the near future, I will be taking a blog sabbatical for at least the next few months. I believe that blogging is here to stay in the Southern Baptist Convention, and unlike some, I think it can be a very beneficial medium. There are three primary reasons for my decision to step aside:(1). I believe the impetus for change in the SBC has begun, and there are others who will be able to carry on the needed dialogue, the exchange of information, and the much needed effort to facilitate increased cooperation among those in the Southern Baptist Convention with diverse backgrounds and theological views. The fact that there are six, maybe seven Presidential candidates for the SBC, all of whom are now focusing on the issues, is enough evidence to me that the stranglehold of a few is over. The more Southern Baptists who are in the mix of leadership, the better.
(2). I am working under deadlines for an additional two books and a contribution to a third. One book, an exposition of Jonah, is almost complete and awaits final edits before it can be published. The second book's manuscript is to be to the publisher by October 15th, 2008, and I must devote my time and energy to complete it. Blogging takes away from the time I need to write that manuscript.
(3). I have lost my enthusiasm for blogging. Either the absence will cause me to enjoy it again, or I will lay it down for good. A decision will be made in October. Again, I believe blogging is beneficial for the SBC when done in the spirit of Christian charity and for the good our cooperative efforts to reach people for Christ.
A couple of final words:
My friend and fellow pastor, Forrest Pollock, along with his 13 year old son Preston, died this past Monday in a plane crash outside Asheville, North Carolina. Both bodies were discovered in the wreckage yesterday. Forrest was born in Oklahoma City and graduated from the University of Oklahoma and became a successful businessman before entering the ministry. His death reminds me of the brevity of one's life and the need to be wise regarding one's time investments. This decision to step aside from blogging is best for me.
I have enjoyed becoming acquainted with many of you over the last two and one half years, and if you happen to be in Indianapolis, Indiana for the Southern Baptist Convention, I would love to have the opportunity to visit with you in person. Update: I would direct your attention to the rewritten Never Take for Granted the Freedom to Dissent
May God bless you, and may God bless the Southern Baptist Convention.
In His Grace,
Wade Burleson
272 comments:
1 – 200 of 272 Newer› Newest»Wade,
I will be in Indianapolis. Peg and I would love to see you. In fact, I know this great Italian Restaurant...
And I understand about stepping aside for at least a season. Not that I like it, but I'd have to agree with you in it.
God bless.
On behalf of this Southern Baptist who has read you faithfully for over two years, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you have done in and through this blog.
In the face of withering criticism, you remained gracious. In the midst of illogical actions against you, you remained steadfast, consistent and faithful to the cause of increased cooperation. In the middle of a huge struggle for the direction of the SBC you have almost singlehandedly turned the Titanic we call the SBC.
The hard, fallow ground has been tilled. You have, by the sweat of your fingers, done what no man or woman has ever had the courage to do. Though those who sought to marginalize you often said you were in it for personal notoriety or gain, you showed the rest of us how incredibly unselfish a Christian can truly be.
I have learned much from observing you from a distance, and I can assure you I am a better man for what I have seen, read and learned from you.
May the Lord continue to use you mightily in all the ways He intends to use your giftedness.
Howard Tillman
Wade,
I've wondered how you have found time to write as much as you've produced and still stay on the "cutting edge" with your messages?
H. Tillman says it well............
Having been a part of the SBC for over 60 years, and a pastor for 45 of those years, you have displayed for us to see.... a gentlemanly and Godly spirit of dissent, which, in spite of things some have said, has seemed to me to be balanced and fair.
Blessings as you complete those manuscripts and continue to serve our Lord and Kingdom purposes in those areas you've mentioned..... barrett
I agree with Blampp above.
I have listened to your entire series on James (the best I've heard on that particular book), your astounding 150 sermons on Romans, and your captivating dseries on Jonah. I pay little attention to SBC politics, but I can say without equivocation, if somebody ever criticizes you without hearing you preach, they criticize at the risk of being seen as foolish by those of us who feel like we know you by your voice, as well as your words. In truth, your sermons, manuscripts and tapes have helped me more than McArthur's Commentaries, Piper's on-line sermons, and every other resource I have used via the internet. My wife, who takes the CD's when I'm done, told me she was going to stay home to watch Emmanuel live on the Internet instead of coming to church with me! I'm not a preacher, just a lowly Sunday School teacher, but our class has profited much from your teaching - through me!!!
I don't care if you quit blogging, just don't quit preaching!!!!!!!!
I for one won't miss your blog, but I do have to agree with the sentiment by Howard that you have been gracious to those who disagree with you. From this unapologetic Fundamentalist who is an old path and unashamed Landmarkist, that is as much of a complement as I can give you.
Wade,
I have wondered how you do all you do...and have wondered how you have weathered all the attacks and kept a gracious spirit...so I wish you well...and as an outsider of the SBC (except for those 200 decisions growing up made at the Baptist churches in my hometown...when did the stats start going down? HA!) I have been challenged and blessed by your blog...now where do I get those sermons BJ talked about...may you and the misses be blessed in every way...I will be praying for your endeavor with the new books!
Ron Fisher
Ron,
You can get all of Pastor Wade's Sunday morning sermons by clicking here
His secretary told me that his Sunday night and Wednesday night series are not on-line, but available by order through the church office via manuscript or audio. You MUST get his "Portraits of Christ in the Feasts of Israel" and "The Offerings of Israel."
They are not online, but absolutely the best I've ever heard in terms of exalting Christ in the Old Testament.
Thank you for the last 2.5 years that you have blogged. I know that I have personally been enriched by the discussion/dialogue that has taken place on this blog. I have learned how to have courteous disagreements by reading this blog (the bad examples have at times taught as much as the good ones). I also felt well prepared to take my Baptist Heritage class as I had read differing opinions beforehand in the blogosphere. More than all that, your spirit in the midst of the initial controversy was inspiring to me. After such a long time blogging, I am happy for you that you will be moving on, at least for a time, from this medium. That being said I will miss your posts as I go through my google reader feed every day. Finally, thank you Wade for standing up for what is right, pure, and noble.
A Simple Student @ SWBTS
If you are an unashamed fundamentalist and landmarkist, then why are you anonymous? Show your face on this last post of Wade's...
Thanks Wade for what you have tried to do. Your graciousness has been abounding to those who still refuse to see a problem.
Bye,
M with YOUR organization
Wade,
Blessings on your endeavors. Hope to see you again soon with regard to Antioch Network happenings.
Blessings,
Jason
For those of you interested, you can watch our services, not just listen, at our 3:16 Network Video On Demand Archives.
Wade,
In some ways I feel like I’ve just heard an old friend has died.
The last thing I would do at night would be to bring up your blog, and it was the first thing I did in the morning.
I never started on that movie scrip of Acts 15; maybe this will give me time to do so.
You once told me that you did not believe as I, but through time and words, I believe we are closer than we were.
I will miss those that comment for I’ve learned much from their wisdom. So in saying goodbye to you, I’m also saying goodbye to them.
In parting, I wish I’d told more people how much their comments helped me instead of disagreeing with others.
At least I didn’t leave on a harsh note to anyone; even had a good word for Michel Crowder. Smile
Will look forward to your book.
Wade,
It has been a long time since I have commented. I just want you to know I have appreciated your writing over the past several months of reading your content. God bless you, your family and your church as you press on in what God has for you.
Blessings,
Glen Woods
Having heard and known you and your family for the past fifteen years, sat under your teaching which God used to transform me and many others, I can say without hesitation, when God empowers a man he can do mighty things. You do what you do because you are empowered to do all and do it well. From writing to sermons to sincerely caring about other people. Your church family loves you and Rachelle. I hope that one reason you have been able to weather the attacks, besides the fact that Rachelle has stood by you, is that your church family has stood by you and always will. I know you will do as God leads you to do, you always have.
I have not read many blogs today and so I just found out about the situation with Forrest Pollock. I am so sorry. My prayers go out to friends and family.
"Farewell Aquarius, and we thank you."
--- Apollo 13
I understand your decision, and probably need to exercise similar discipline myself.
Nevertheless, your words will be missed.
Yours,
Scotte Hodel
Whoops. I didn't realize I was posting the above comment under my son's account.
------------------------------------
"Farewell Aquarius, and we thank you."
--- Apollo 13
I understand your decision, and probably need to exercise similar discipline myself.
Nevertheless, your words will be missed.
Yours,
Scotte Hodel
Wade,
Very sad to hear this news. I was hoping that you would continue until the guidelines were removed, revoked or changed back. Regardless, you have been a great advocate for change in the SBC, towards cooperation and transparency. It's been a blessing to see how you handle conflict with those who disagree with you and through this blog I've been able to see more clearly the obstacles that Christ encountered against the Pharisees as he ushered in the "Kingdom".
Matthew 5:43-48
43-47"You're familiar with the old written law, 'Love your friend,' and its unwritten companion, 'Hate your enemy.' I'm challenging that. I'm telling you to love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer, for then you are working out of your true selves, your God-created selves. This is what God does. He gives his best—the sun to warm and the rain to nourish—to everyone, regardless: the good and bad, the nice and nasty. If all you do is love the lovable, do you expect a bonus? Anybody can do that. If you simply say hello to those who greet you, do you expect a medal? Any run-of-the-mill sinner does that.
48"In a word, what I'm saying is, Grow up. You're kingdom subjects. Now live like it. Live out your God-created identity. Live generously and graciously toward others, the way God lives toward you."
Mark 8:34-35
34Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 35For whoever wants to save his life[a] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.
Maybe your cross is to end the bureaucracy in the SBC.
Wade,
Your blog and voice will be missed. Thanks for taking a hit for all of us on the field....I wish we had more in the SBC like you. Have a great six months!
Wade,
Blessings to you as you write, teach, and preach. Your decision to take a sabbatical from blogging is unexpected, at least by me, but much respected. It is also an encouragement to the rest of us to always listen to the Spirit's leading and to always be willing to follow Him even if he leads us in a way we (or others) were not expecting. May the Lord bless you as you pursue Him with all your strength. I especially admire your forthright admission that you have recently lost your enthusiasm for blogging. Nothing wrong with that! Perhaps you will get it back, but whether you do or don't, I think you are wise to follow your heart as your heart follows the Lord.
I might add my blessing to all others who have posted here. I know this blog has often (usually) witnessed much controversy, but I sincerely trust and hope that we can all respect, encourage, and especially love one another as we part ways for a season. May we all daily experience the joy, power, hope and peace that comes from knowing and walking with our Savior, Jesus!
EA IMB M
Wade:
Thank you for all the work you've done keeping this blogsite active during the past 2.5 years. It's been enriching and enlightening to interact with others posting comments here; most of us are now better informed about SBC happenings than we were before--there certainly is an interest in the convention, what it does and/or doesn't stand for, and what its future will be. I also appreciate your permitting ones like myself to remain anonymous if we chose to be for our own reasons; what the anons have to say is, for the most part, no less true and important than those able to type their names.
Life is is fragile and its length is uncertain. The Pollock family's circumstances today demonstrate those realities yet again. Bro. Forrest, I think, certainly would want bloggers here to re-examine what it is we spend out time doing--and to do more of those things which prepare us and others to stand well before the Lord. If each of us internalizes and acts on the right things posted here since 2005, a good standing is more likely. May God bless the Pollocks and their friends now with comfort which is as outstanding as their tragedy is sudden.
Get those books finished!
David
(David Troublefield; Minister of Education, Lamar Baptist Church-Wichita Falls, TX)
I have rarely commented but have followed you for nearly two years now. I suspect I am one hundreds who have been influenced by the blogs who do not comment but who read faithfully. I would be totally ignorant of most that goes one in SBC if it were not for this blog. It has caused me at times to want to leave the SBC but then being from a small town, where would I go? I guess I will remain for better or worse but I believe it is getting better and you surly have a large part in that. You will be missed but I will still check the sight from time to time to see if you have shared any fresh insight with all of your faithful readers.
Bry McClellan
More than once I've wondered, how does this guy not flame out with the seemingly endless time demands he must face? I appreciate being informed about convention life and have come to the conclusion that it doesn't operate much differently than regular office politics.
You've taken quite a few shots--some most well deserved--but have proven more formidable than Rocky Balboa. At the risk of you getting a big head from all these showers of praise I will simply say: do what your wife says and life will be much simpler.
Wade,
Thank you for being a voice for so many who had no other voice. I appreciate all the work you put into this blog for so long, as well as the opportunity to foster dialog.
For our Landmarkist brothers, I have recently found evidence that the church of Corinth was Baptist, after all. ;) They they were enmeshed in problems akin to recent Baptist politics. They argued over who was worthy, and who was not. They worried about one group being right and another wrong. They pitted one set of leaders against another. It was "us" and "them" all the way. In all the "I’m right, you’re wrong" mentality, they missed the point of their real identity.
In the midst of all that, thank you Wade for being a reasoned, gracious voice, willing to speak truth, even when it would not be well-received. As others have mentioned, I also will miss the dialog with others.
wade,
thanks for showing the way to cooperate by living according to The Way.
robert
Wade,
Very sorry to hear about your friends. Just know that my prayers are with you!
On another note,
It looks as if you are having a Jeremiah moment. Jeremiah 20. When have true prophets not come to a point where they are sick of the attacks and just want to throw up your hands and tell God "just go ahead and burn them up"?
When you have recovered or when your heart burns again to say it on a blog, you may want to start with a good Jeremiah expo as you are apparently well thought of on your preaching. Jeremiah is the church today as we know it and He speaks through him to a hard hearted, stiff necked people. Just as it is today.
Blessings and peace of Christ be with you and yours!
Wade - Blessings from the field.
Can you please leave the comment section open for just general comments? I sure would miss Knucklehead M. Crowder and Peter Lumphead.
I can't go to their sites due to my "antivirus" program...if you know what I mean.
:)
Thanks, Wade, for what you have tried to do.
I do not share your sense of optimism about the future direction of the SBC, but I hope that you are right and that I am wrong.
Blessings to you.
Wade,
Thanks for all that you have done, I will miss " Grace and Truth to You".
You have touched many lives and have impacted the direction of the SBC.
In the words of Aaron " May the Lord bless you and keep you, may He make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you, may He lift up His countenance on you and give you peace"
Peace my brother.....
Dave Broughton
Blessings Wade,
You will be missed.
Before you go, would you mind revealing the identity of the person who wrote the multi-part series on women in the ministry?
Wade, over the years we've been blessed to watch real reformation begin. We've seen you stand up and encourage us to do the same when dealing with the oppressed and we've found a friend and so value that friendship.
Mackey and I will be in prayer for you and we know you will choose the right path.
Blessings and grace to the Burlesons.
Godspeed.
Hurry back.
Wade,
Thanks for keeping the issues before us. It has come at a terrible cost to you and your family. Should you come to Montana, we would love to meet you and hear what God has given you.
Ken Colson
Montana Southern Bapt Convention
Thanks for keeping me up to date with things that were happening in SBC life. Your blog encouraged me to attend the the convention meeting in San Antonio last year.
I will be unable to make it to Indy because that week conflicts with my church's youth camp.
May the Lord continue to bless you, your ministry, and your family.
Grace and truth to you, my friend.
"Wisdom is proved right by her actions."
Wade - Thanks for your time and may God bles you as you look to His Direction for your next move. I don't know how you have been doing this and writing and keep up with your church and family.
Can you please leave the comment section open for just general comments?
Fox from Virginia
Here is the article from the local (Asheville) paper on Rev Pollack, It sounds as if he were a remarkable man. Hail and farewell! May the Lord use this tragedy to energize that church even more.
http://citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080514/NEWS01/80513143&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL
I hope the hiatus from blogging will indeed be temporary. Through your blog, I have met so many friends that I never knew existed. I also would like to add to the chorus of praise for the manner in which you have handled yourself during a very turbulent era in the SBC. I'll see you in October, if not in Indianapolis!
Kurt A. Ehrsam
Thanks for your gracious tone and for letting this former fundamentalist know that there is "a light that is coming for the heart that holds" on in the SBC.
Jeff Parsons
Amarillo, TX
I believe that the fact that there are so many announced candidates for SBC presidency is an indication that
"good old boy" type of governance is breaking down. Maybe a new spirit of cooperation between those holding various views on secondary matters is in the offing.
It is too early now to determine if this spirit of openess and cooperation will flourish or not.
I know you have taken some heat over the last couple of years. Maybe, in some cases, you have chased rabbit trails by focusing too narrowly on specific individuals. But the overall result of your blog has been to lay the foundatation for a new day in the SBC on cooperation and working together.
I believe COOPERATION is the only reason the SBC exists; cooperation to fund missionary operations and the seminaries. Otherwise we might as well shut down the SBC and just continue as a bunch of local congregations each doing its own thing.
Thanks for blowing the cover on those whose actions need to be exposed to the light of day. Thanks for being a sounding board to give missionaries in the IMB a platform as they call for help.
Roger Simpson
Oklahoma City OK
Wade, I respect your decision, but I'm disappointed in it. You were one person willing to shine a flashlight on all those dark corners of the convention and show us what was there. Now that the flashlight is being turned off, the rats will come out of their corners again without fear.
As I am often reminded by Henry Blackaby...
We can't stay where we are and go with God
May the SBC move forward with God's guidance.
Anonymous,
Guess it is time for others to take up the mantle Wade has been carrying, putting their own reputations on the line, huh? Wade has done a great job of shining lights. The SBC needs more than one person holding a flashlight, though.
Wade, I hope to see you at Indy.
Who's # 6? BP's latest release was Les Puryear. Here's the list in that release
Les Puryear
Frank Cox
Johnny Hunt
William L. (Bill) Wagner
Avery Willis
Thanks, Wade, for making us Baptists in the pew believe that we can cooperate in a revitalized Southern Baptist Convention free of those who want to dictate terms (of surrender?) to the Bible-only, no-rules-of-men Baptist Christians out here. Keep up the good fight after you get books finished. As our freedom fighting forebear Patrick Henry once said -
"It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
God bless Wade.
Wade:
We have never met, but I hope that we will.
I understand your decision completely.
Blogging takes a lot of time. When considered with your other responsibilities (leading your family, pastoring a big church, trying to write books, denominational responsibilities etc.), keeping up with a blog can be difficult. And if you blog for 2 years, at the end, you don't have any work written work product that endures. In your case, you have pointed to developments that occurred. But you don't have a book or anything like that - which you might have if you spent the same amount of time on a book.
Forrest Pollock's death probably helped put all of that in perspective for you. I met him once, and he was nice guy. He will be missed, and his family will be in our prayers.
So, all that being said, I can understand and respect your decision. I will miss the dialogue with all of these folks.
Good luck and God's blessings to you.
Louis
Well, Wade,
It has been a real trip.
See you around sometime.
cb
Wade,
Thanks for the valiant efforts. You've helped start a good work. May the ball keep rolling and even gain speed toward a missional and cooperative resurgence.
God bless your family, book writing, pastoral work, and denominational efforts.
Todd Nelson
Kuala Lumpur
Praise God from whom all blessings flow! While I am sure you are a good man and good pastor, you're constant rips, rants and banging on the SBC, IMB and anything else SBC related grew tired quickly. You have not initiated change in the SBC, you have only divided it further. You and Bishop Ben's hatred for Dr. Patterson is shameful. Good luck.
Wade,
As a person who found your blog only last January, I can say, without a doubt, I will miss it. Guess I will just have to keep up with the "stuff" that's going on by reading the Outpost. :)
I was just thinking about how some people say that people who point out problems in the Body tend to drive people away, or things along those lines. And, no, it's not the ones that point out the problems that drive people away - it's the ungodly actions of the people who cause the problems. People are not stupid. When there's stuff going on under the surface, they can see it. And they are a whole lot more likely to stick around through the probblems when there are some people that take the leaders to task for their ungodly actions. When everybody lets the leaders get away with whatever, then others think that everybody's okay with the leaders' ungodly actions. Then is when people get tired and disgusted and quit.
Thank you for taking leaders to task for their ungodly actions and letting others know that not everybody's okay with the leaders' actions. You have done a good work with this blog.
Wade,
God has used you well. I am thankful.
Jim
Wade, since you have not enjoyed blogging of late, I leave you with a story I hope lightens your mood:
A professor of “Baptist Identity” at Southern Seminary walked into a pet shop and asked the owner, "Do you have a Southern Baptist dog?"
The surprised shop owner thought about it for a while and then nodded, saying, "Yes... yes, I think we have a dog that will fit your description."
A dog was produced and the Seminary professor said, "Let's see if this is a real Southern Baptist dog."
“Bring me the word of God,” he commanded.
The dog ran over to a table, pawed through a stack of modern translations of the bible until he found a dusty King James Bible and deposited it at the professor’s feet.
The Southern Baptist Seminarian was impressed, but still not convinced.
"Let's see if this dog knows proper Southern Baptist doctrine,” he said. “What is the role of a woman in church?” he asked.
The dog began growling, then opened the Bible with its snout and placed its paw on 1 Corinthians 14:34-35.
Very pleased, the seminarian bought the dog and presented it as a gift to the president of an SBC Seminary in Texas.
He was shown the Southern Baptist dog and the things it could do.
The SBC Seminary president was delighted and asked if the animal was also trained to do things normal dogs do.
The Southern Baptist professor said, "Hmm, I don't know. I've never tried."
He then ordered the dog, "Heel."
Suddenly the dog leaped onto the SBC Seminary president’s lap, placed its paw on the man's head and began howling.
"Wait a minute!" exclaimed the seminary president, "This dog isn't Southern Baptist! He's Pentecostal!"
Wade,
As one who has read your blog faithfully for the past 2 years but seldom left comments, I must say that I'm sad to see this end. I do, however, totally understand your decision given the demands placed upon a pastor.
You've really opened my eyes to some of the problems in our convention. Although I don't always agree with you on everything, I will always fight for your right to be heard. Those who would try to silence you are, in my opinion, bringing shame upon the SBC. I believe our convention is strong enough to share some differing opinions on tertiary doctrines.
My friend Jonathan Merritt has recently experienced a little of what you've been going through. As the leading force behind "A Southern Baptist Declaration on the Environment and Climate Change," he's run into his own resistance. You can read about that here:
http://jonathanmerritt.blogspot.com/2008/04/it-is-no-secret-that-baptist-news_13.html
Although I believe what he's doing is unnecessary and not even a good idea, and even though I couldn't personally affix my name to his declaration, I believe he has every right to be heard in our convention.
And so do you.
Thank you for shining a light into some of the dark corners of the SBC. Transparency and accountability are good things, and we need more of it. I believe your efforts over the last couple of years have paved the way for more openness in our convention.
Once again, thank you!
Wade,
Thank you so much for your work on the national level.
I believe God's grace has been working in you so that your integrity has protected you.
However, let me also say that I believe God has used you to help me understand better how to shepherd the flock.
I thank God for you Wade
Grace and Truth to You,
Benji
Anonymous - who - didn't - sign - a - name:
You said "..you're constant rips, rants and banging on the SBC, IMB and anything else SBC related grew tired quickly .... You and Bishop Ben's hatred for Dr. Patterson is shameful."
Your comment is either ignorant or stupid (if not both). And cowardly for being anonymous.
I'm personally hoping it's ignorance.
wade what about the identity of the seven articles on a womens role in the church
help? was that ever given?
One more for the road,
Anony,
Bob is right. You are a coward. Wade may be ending his blog, but he has always owned his words.
You, on the other hand, can't even look in the mirror with a straight face.
cb
There will always be those who think it is a sin to speak negative truths. That won't change. But, you shined a light in dark, closed places with grace and love even when shunned and censored for it. And you have showed grace and love to those who have tried to intimidate you and even ruin you.
May this kind of tribe increase in the SBC. Blessings!
Wade,
Thank you for your wisdom and grace. God used this blog as one of the reasons I began my own blog, and, I know that learning to interact with others here and around the internet has greatly contributed to my own personal growth. Thank you for all that you do.
Wade,
You have fought the Good Fight (2Ti 4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith) and God has surely Blessed You in that Endeavor. You have opened the eyes of those that with Blind and setting in their Pews. And you did all this with GRACE and TRUTH. We were able to see the ones that came out of the woodwork and try to silence you with their Poison Pens and Spewing their Venom. Thank you Brother Wade Burleson for sharing you Love for the SBC and your Brothers and Sisters in Jesus Christ.
Did you know Forrest Pollock was a Pastor of Corinth Baptist Church Bonham, TX from 1992-1994?
Two of His children were born here during that time.
Looking Forward to meeting you’ all some Day.
Love to You and Yours
Wayne Smith
Father
Thank you for the ministry You’ve directed in and through Wade. It has been an empowering ministry to Your Kingdom as a whole and an enlightening ministry to the SBC in particular. Lord, thank you for Your messenger Wade Burleson. He has delivered Your message and he has done it in the fullness of Your Spirit. In the onslaught of personal attack, bullying politics, and the rejection of his personhood he has ministered Your love, grace, and mercy in a manner that can only be explained as a “God thing.”
To some, this ministry has been a breath of fresh air, a reason for renewed optimism, an ember of hope that Ichabod has not been written across the doorpost of our convention, evidence of the dawn of a reformation among Southern Baptist. To others, this ministry has been a nuisance, a flag of liberalism waving in the storm, a threat to their standing and influence, a distraction to their cause. Regardless, Father, may history record that IT has been Your ministry in the early years of this 21st century not unlike Your ministry in the early years of the 16th century.
And Lord, just as in years past, may you raise up men and women who will accept the call to lead in reforming a convention in a gospel resurgence. Leading, as exemplified by Wade, with a graciousness and Christ-likeness even when grieving over attackers. May You raise up leaders in the pulpit, business life, blogosphere, publicly, and privately, without regard for reputation except to be faithful to YOU.
Now, Father, may you bless Wade, Rachelle, their family, and Emmanuel Baptist Church Enid, OK. Please give to Wade all that he needs to complete the writing ministry You have given him. May You give him the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual rejuvenation with strength as You call him forth from this break from blogging into a more public and prominent role of leadership, whatever that might be.
Father, protect all of us from the root of bitterness.
In the Name of Christ,
Amen.
Chuck Andrews
Let the good times role
There is a Party on SBC Street
You congregations thanks you
The SBC Leadership thanks you
The Lawyers Don't thank you
Take your time,enjoy the Pax Romana
Wade,
Well thanks loads for messing up my morning routine which always included looking in on your blog. Why can't some folks be more considerate of middle-aged man's comfort zone?
Seriously my brother, you've done great work and it's deeply appreciated. I'll be looking forward to the books and expect, of course, an autographed copy.
Doug
I am sad. I understand. You have been a great inspiration. I have grown from your thoughts and your heart for the Lord. I will miss your graciousness. You are to be admired. Please hurry back.
wtreat
Wayne, Forrest's bio and resume say he was at Prestonwood during those years?
To Chuck Andrews:
WOW!! AMEN!!
ML,
I believe if you ask the People That Forrest Pollock Pastored here, after Seminary, at Corinth Baptist Church Bonham, TX you will find the truth. From 1992-1994 Forrest who made a small fortune in TV & Communications prior to committing His Life to Full Time Ministry did the following here? The church only had a Fellowship Hall and not many members. Forrest took the reins of the Church with Grace Plus Humility and Built a Brick Church, while his family lived in a less than Adequate Small House. His Humility and Grace was in all things with very Simple Farm People.
Wayne
Dr.Wade
I promise not to have withdrawals nor lose any sleep.
Wade,
Will you still let us know who wrote the 6 part series on women?
othoniel a valdes sr:
You are such a wise guy. Even at this important point in Wade's life you are disrespectful to him. May your tribe decrease and yes people like you make me angry.
If this blog has done anything, it has shown the bitterness, arrogance, pride and deception of your detractors. Many of whom think of themselves as our authorities! (Scary thing, that.) And, I had NO idea there were so many mean spirited pastors in the SBC. It is scary and has been a wake up call.
It has just been further proof that titles conferred by men does not automatically mean a deep spirituality, humility and servanthood.
However, you have turned the other cheek while speaking truth and opening up the doors to transparency. Well done.
Lucy
This is my opinion of blogs, they are a tool of the devil. People can say whatever they want about anybody they choose and most of the time have no idea what they are talking about. I'll suggest that you spend your time studying the Word and that time will be well spent and in doing so you will not want to blog and then God will be glorified.
Pastor Wade,
This blog has been helpful to someone like me that is not SBC. I gained an understanding of how the convention is supposed to function and the struggle for its future. Several of my friends are with you in spirit sincerely praying that a consensus will happen. You are all my brothers and sisters in Christ. I hope that in six months you will start up again. I totally understand the time in trying to blog on a regular basis. I started one last year and have only posted two posts:)
May all of you in the SBC be blessed as you pursue the Lord with the passion you have. God bless you all.
Wade
In contrast to Mr. Valdes, I do anticipate withdrawal. Being divisive because you are mean or selfish or determined to manipulate the system to gain or maintain control is wrong. I don't think there would be much disagreement about that. However, I don't recall any evidence that you intended to be divisive or that any of these motives applied to you. Public dissent with a clear rationale and standing up for the powerless who were being mistreated can clearly be divisive, when there are those who oppose these actions. However, in this case the harm caused by the divisiveness is minor compared to the harm that would be done by failing to speak up or to defend those being treated unfairly.
The most striking aspect of the events and opinions in which you have been involved during 2.5 years of blogging is that you have been opposed vigorously for expressing the inherently conservative view that IMB practices and rules prior to the new "guidelines" were perfectly adequate and appropriately relied on local churches (which fund the IMB) to determine if the baptism of a missionary candidate was valid. The conservative position is by definition to stand by traditional beliefs and practices unless there is compelling reason for change. Yet, those who claim to be most conservative are the ones who have initiated and defended a truly radical (by historical Baptist standards) "top down" imposition of rules about which other conservative inerrantists (like you, Wade) can provide rational and legitimate Bible based objections. We are truly living in strange times.
However, your blog has contributed in a substantial way, IMO, to initiating changes in the SBC that could delay or prevent its descent into irrelevancy and ineffectiveness. I pray these changes will continue and the SBC will again focus its cooperative efforts on missions, rather than on growth-defeating doctrinal conformity.
I also pray that you will continue to be blessed and used by God in whatever way He chooses. Thank you for your efforts, and I hope to meet you someday.
Stephen Pruett,
Well said. Let me encourage the readers of this blog to go to Ken Coffee's web site Strong Coffee and see what this long time Texas pastor has said about Pastor Burleson. A finer tribute will not be written.
Wade,
I am so sorry to hear of your dear friend and his son's death. As a missionary pilot, I have lost several of my best friends in the same way.
I have taken a sabbatical from flying and sold the Gulfstream. I hope to go back into the field someday though.
I'll miss your blog. Your sound reasoning and openness to spiritual things has always been refreshing.
(a little humor);
Prop your feet up, pour yourself a tall, cold, sweet tea. A demure tea that lets the food and its flavors develop. one with a good acidic backbone. The acid cleanses your palate as it passes through, leaving just a nice tingle in your mouth to remember the food.
Enjoy your time off from blogging....
Well Wade, the only thing I can really say is: if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then I too will stop blogging until October. Something happened in my church tonight that is going to unlock a ministry door and I am overjoyed to get the chance to be a part of the movement of the Spirit. I will miss your blog. I will even miss ol' tom parker. I will miss getting out of line and being called on the carpet by the wisdom of your dad. I will miss the gossip you spread that shouldn't be spread but that is so fun to read about. I will miss hearing from M's around the world (even the liberal ones) who post with passion and desire freedom in Christ to do their job. I think I might even miss Debbie......but I'll get back to you on that one in October. I'll miss the occasional email from a support, and the frequent hate mail from detractors (ok not really hate mail, but love less mail). And, I will miss having a venue from which to rebuke the liberals in Missouri. Oh wait, I can still do that on my blog. :)
This is Kmichael signing out 'till October. Unless I change my mind.
- “Not-Dad”
Thank you for your blog the last years. Good decision for your family. They are #1.
Steve
Wade:
Many months ago I was blessed to receive one of your books. Although I will miss your presence in blogdom I look forward to the book you will finish during your sabbatical.
As an SBC layman who serves weekly at a local church, I was dismayed to learn through your blog how some were being abused in our seminaries, missions agencies and churches. I was shocked to read the prideful venom served up against dissenters by ministers, denominational employees and appointees.
I remain saddened that they do this in Jesus’ name.
Upon reading that blogging no longer brings you joy I was reminded of Jesus’ reaction when he found his ministry offended many of those who should have been closest to him.
"A prophet is not without honor, except in his own country, and among his own relatives, and in his own house.”
You have selflessly defended those who have not had someone to speak truth to power on their behalf.
Thank you for enduring slings and arrows for their cause.
Blessings,
-jack-
Wade.
What can I say that has not already been said so well by these comments?
My prayer is that secret stuff will cease and we will have an open convention where things done in secret will be anathema.
You have done well in bringing to our attention what is happening behind our closed doors so that those doing things in secret will no longer be safe from SBC membership scrutiny. It is the SBC membership who must decide what we will or what we will not do, not a few who sees themselves as the elect or the remnant of true believers.
In my best Hebrew and probably the worst Hebrew in the world which I even make worse by my feeble transliteration.
Y'varech'- Adonai v'yishm'recha; yaer Adonai panav elecha vichuneka; yisa Adonai panav elecha, v'yasem l'cha shalom
The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord turn his face toward you and give you peace,
Numbers 6:24-26.
Your brother in Christ and fellow servant of the Lord,
Phil in Norman.
Wade-
God bless in your endeavors.
Thanks for your attempts at righting the SBC ship in a time when she was really taking on water. Though I don't believe the leaking to have subsided (it's just leaking in different places), the sinking cannot be attributed to you.
I appreciate the strong stand that you in attempting to point of things that were and are problematic, some even systemic and endemic in our convention culture. Whether or not things ever change (and I'm convinced that they won't) be content knowing that you have done your best.
*strong stand that your took*
Stupid preview.
Pastor Wade.
I will definitely miss your blog. It's the one thing that reminds me there are still sane people in the churhc. Thank you, thank you, thank you for all the work you have started AND accomplished in unifying the Body of Christ. Bless you and much peace to you and your family.
allen padgett-
didn't i read somewhere that you were suppose to flee from evil? If that is true, and what you say is true about blogs, then why are you here posting?
I will miss your blog and your presence on the web, Wade. Thanks for all you have done and said and exposed.
I must also say I am not surprized. As I have suggested several times and in several formats, it is my opinion as a pastor who for almost 20 years dealt exclusively with troubled churches, the SBC has become dysfunctional. And in a dysfunctional church (or organization), there are several things which inevitably happen. One is that it takes an inordinate amount of energy to interact; dysfunction is an "energy sink" which just sucks all the energy of its participants into itself. Two is that in dysfunctional situations, there is always sabatoge. It may come from unexpected directions, but it will always surface. Three, and related to that, there are always fresh problems or "fires" breaking out. The problems themselves may be unrelated except in the sense of a common origin in the dysfunction. Four, those who are emotionally and spiritually healthy always leave first, so that the dysfunction continues to escalate and spiral, unless it is addressed with intentionality and sufficient energy to overcome it.
I don't blame you for "leaving" (I know you are not leaving the SBC, but you certainly appear to be backing away from the fray). I had to do that too re: troubled churches. The last one I served gave me a heart attack, and I "knew" it was just a matter of time before they gave me a second (and perhaps fatal) one. (OK, I'm not a Calvinist.) Consequently, I prayed, pleaded, and in fact begged God to sent me elsewhere. I may be the only person in the DC metropolitian area who moved here in order to reduce his stress level! (By the way, it worked; I was able to quit taking one medicine for high blood pressure altogether, cut another in half, and I take a third only "as needed;" this morning my bp was 106/71!)
SO: godspeed, and may you find peace--and I would like to call myself, although we have never met, "your friend."
John Fariss
The prop bet on the big board in Vegas is 27 days.
I'm going to take the over, thinking you'll last a solid month. ;)
Send me a copy of Jonah.
JR
Wade,
Thanks for shining the light in some very dark corners of the SBC. I appreciate your willingness to reveal what has remained largely hidden to the masses of Southern Baptists at a significant cost to you and yours.
I got the impression from your response to a question in a previous post that you are working on providing a more complete account of the things you uncovered during your tenure as a trustee of the IMB. Is that the case?
Hope you can come back soon.
JK
Thanks for shining a light on the IMB policies, Wade. They were wrong and they continue to be wrong. I appreciate your stand there and your desire for the SBC to be a place where all Southern Baptists can cooperate. Thank you for trying.
Thank you Wade;
I also respect John Farriss's comment above - and if for your well-being it is time to stop then so be it.
However on your 3 stated points I observe
1. In the year that you stepped down from the IMB it seems premature to believe that a spirit of generous, Christ-honoring co-operation is inevitably returning where the power lies.
2. While it is every expositor's instinct is to place high value on his books and Bible ministry, it will not impact in the way your blogging has. We remember Martin Luther mainly for a note on a church door.
3. Did you only blog because you are enthusiastic? The title of your blog suggests not. Truth is greater than enthusiasm. Jesus wasn't very enthusiatic about the greatest thing he did.
But let me say thank you for beginning to move stuff that seemed unmovable.
What would happen to our SBC if this ballgame was its pattern?
It's easy to see the Pharisee obeying the rules and who is the real Christian. This is one of the most uplifting tapes I’ve seen be it spiritual or otherwise.
http://sports.espn.go.com:80/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3380875
Without the blogging of Wade, the SBC is much like the man that said, “My wife and I had words, but I’ve still got mine.”
tom parker
You don't make me angry
Wade,
I am thankful to have come across your blog, and, as an old fellow with a good memory, am reminded of long gone years when the very same destructive games, which you have continued to expose, were being played in our country, and still are.
I am also blessed by the stand you have taken. Knowing the consequences of such a stand, I am reminded of the scurrilous depths of character assasination to which some will stoop to have their own way, and to shore up their positions.
I pray that you will not be as personally damaged, by the deliberate actions of those who see themselves as your opponents, as were some of my colleagues in this land.
As I've read your blog, I have also been reminded that, in your country there are those who will sell themselves for the pottage of the favor of those who see themselves as being "in high places" and in "authority".
Because of the revived memories,I have been greatly saddened, and shed a few tears, but I've also been greatly encouraged as I've read your writings and your supportive respondents, that there are still some who will stand up against the insidious evils infiltrating the work of God's people, through those who work in the darkness.
May the Lord bless you and protect you and yours.
It says a world about your motives on this blog Otto when someone says to you "may your tribe decrease" and that statement doesn't penetrate your soul and bring about conviction as to why someone would even think that about you.
I pray also that your tribe decrease.
In fact, you, KMC, and Peter Lumphead should start a church and enjoy each others narrowness while the rest of us reach the world for Christ.
anonymous
you must know me from a distance past since you call me Otto and only people before I got married know me as such.
I have a conscience and no guilt of anything I have said on this blog and no need to hide nor take anything back.
I stand by all my remarks and do not retract any of them and I really don't care if tribes increase or decrease since I do not belong to any.
Actually, it says more about someone who would actually wish someone else tribe would decrease.
actually jeff it doesn't - not when your talking about otto or kms or lumphead... they're unmoving, stiffnecked people.
How wrong we are to wish that on people? I feel sorry for people who can't see the difference.
This is a set-up
So I can be 100
EXACTLY Alan - The one thing we all should not want is for that "kind of tribe" to increase.
I appreciate your concern Jeff and I'm sorry you don't get it, but Otto kind of solidified why we should all pray his tribe decrease when he says, "I really don't care if tribes increase or decrease since I do not belong to any."
Otto, may your tribe DECREASE!
You might be ashamed of yourself and your comments on this blog if you knew who I was.
Jeff-
Do you think Jesus wished the leading religious leaders tribes to increase? Say maybe the Pharisees or any of the jewish leaders who sought to have him killed?
I think he rather prayed that they would repent...
What say you?
anonymous:
knowing your name will not change my views and as for been ashame if I knew who you are I doubt it since I have identified myself and my views and you and your views well they are anonymous ?
Alan Paul:
Is interesting that you call me stiff- neck because of my views.
I guess that as long as people agree with You they can be known & call Right-Neck-Baptist.
Alan are yuo saying that Otto, and the rest are lost. Because that is what the Pharisees were. It was not a fight amongst believers. It was conflict between two kingdoms. Jesus was not rebuking believers, but lost people
Jeff - just because the pharisees were lost doesn't mean the comparison can't be made. I don't know whether otto is lost or not - i am not in the business of knowing people's heart - I can only go by what I see and I see that otto needs to repent - as well as lumpkin and kmc - all three are out of control as far as their right wing theology propaganda.
jesus would not wish someone who is in sin to prosper or increase. he would call that person to repentance - to go and sin no more.
Alan, Yet the bible tells us that God causes us the sun/rain to rise/fall on the just and the unjust.
othoniel: My view would be to include those whose doctrine differs from mine, including you, my view would be to cut out the mean spiritness of those who hold your view seem to be spewing. My view is to love the Lord God as He gives me the ability which then spills into loving others which again would include you, so in other words it's ok to disagree with me. It's those who would agree with you that may desire to exclude me, say that I am not a Southern Baptist. So who really is having the problem with disagreeing? Me,Alan or you and those who agree with you?
B.J. Simms said:
You can get all of Pastor Wade's Sunday morning sermons by clicking here
His secretary told me that his Sunday night and Wednesday night series are not on-line, but available by order through the church office via manuscript or audio. You MUST get his "Portraits of Christ in the Feasts of Israel" and "The Offerings of Israel."
..........
May I say Wade's series on the "Providence of God" is my favorite. His "Last Days Madness" series made a preterist out of me. Keep teaching Wade.
signed,
Someone fearful of being kicked out of my church because of my eschatology
Debbie,
I think we are in the same boat, as well as my husband.
IM Smith
dear Debbie:
Thank you for your view
alan Paul:
I promise to repent for your projection on me the sin of Right Wing Propaganda.
Thank you for setting me free from
this Evil you see in me.
I feel better already
I think I am saved but I will have to wait on the virdict of others
NOTICE:
This notice is to inform the viewing SBC public that Emmanuel Baptist Church in Enid, Oklahoma is supporting vulgar blogging by one of their paid staff pastors. Not only are they paying this person WHILE he is engaging in such sinful behavior, they are also providing the computer equipment and connection necessary to denigrate a respected leader in the SBC.
This notice is in reference to Emmanuel's Minister of Great Commission and Discipleship, Ben Cole. Is this really what discipleship at Emmanuel is all about??? Dr. Richard Land goes by "Richard Land." The context in which Pastor Cole uses the name "Dick Land" on the smut-blog SBC Outpost is quite clear. There is absolutely no reason to use the shortened form of the name "Richard" in this context other than to infer that the mind of Dr. Land is nothing more than a "land" characterized by the calling of a person by the slang name for the male genitalia. This is offensive to Dr. Land. It is offensive to me. It reflects directly on the character of the members of Emmanuel Baptist, Enid and it shames the name of Christ in a culture that enjoys a good laugh at sexual innuendoes.
I expect the Board of Directors and Board of Deacons at Emmanuel to issue a prompt apology to Dr. Land for the gross actions of one of their pastors. I am personally ashamed to be associated with Emmanuel during this dark hour and hope that the matter can be resolved in a timely manner.
ihs,
Kevin M. Crowder, Pastor
Delhi Baptist Church
I expect Wade to be back prior to October.
Jesse
K Michael,
I have refrained from responding to your nonsense because your writings indicate that you are either acting purposely as an agent provocateur or you are mean and not worthy of response.
However, this comment is so over the top that I feel I must respond. I find it remarkable that you are able to read Ben Cole's mind to determine what he intended by referring to Richard Land as Dick Land. Your conclusion indicates where your thoughts are, but not where Ben Cole's are. Let me see, I seem to remember Richard Nixon was known as Dick Nixon (aka Tricky Dicky), but referring to him this way was generally done to acknowledge his darker less presidential side. Dick is used as an informal appellation for Richard very commonly, and having read many of Ben Cole's posts, he often uses informal and humorous phrases.
On the other hand, your absolute certainty as to a more sinister intention for Ben's use of a nickname indicates you can read minds. That is truly remarkable, but I don't understand why you haven't used your gift for the glory of God rather than to accuse the brethren.
Mr. Pruett:
Does your mommy know you are up this late?
Anyway, let me get this straight. You use a worldly example to justify the world-like actions of Pastor Cole?
A few things.
1. Several of Nixon's inner circle called him "Dick"
2. "Dick Nixon" is not the same as "Dick Land" and cannot carry the same connotation.
3. Of course I cannot read minds. No one can you goof. But I can read between the lines. Plus, I can smell the stench of Cole's deviousness all the way here in Missouri.
4. Lastly, how on earth do you have any clue as to what God-given gifts I am or am not using to His glory? I submit that you do NOT have a clue and are simply talk out of your 'ben cole.'
K
K Michael,
Thanks for your comment. It amply confirms my guesses (see my previous comment) as to your purpose and/or character in blogging.
K Michael,
FYI, the comment on using your mind reading skill for the glory of God was sarcasm. I suppose some lines are more difficult to read between than others.
K. Michael Crowder,
You made the list of the famous on this Blog.
http://baptistidentitybloggercom.blogspot.com/
Wade,
Just wanted to drop in and say "Hi" and to say (as you might expect)that I am grateful for and will miss your blogging. I was in Thailand for two weeks in March (1 week on mission and a second week visiting colleges and schools there on business for the University System of Georgia).
I found out about several opportunities for missions volunteers who are willing to go out for one or two years and can raise a support package from their home church that would include their roundtrip airfare, insurance, and about $350.00 per month living allowance. College graduates with English teaching skills are wanted as well as persons with master's degrees in almost any discipline. Mission assignment will combine teaching with outreach. These volunteers would go out as independents rather than through a mission board, but will be networked with other Baptists and Great Commission Christians working in Thailand. If a person accepts this assignment, he or she will not be working alone but will have plenty of opportunities for Christian fellowship, worship, service, and more. Please let me know if you think you might have some good candidates for me and refer them to me for the details. Blessings to you and Rachelle.
KMC - I have implored your church leaders to discipline you with example after example of your unchristlike words...all to no avail.
This shows the quality of the church you attend which also why they let you preach there.
God help your congregation.
Otto - I have no doubt you are unashamed of your nonsense.
You spread it so readily.
Wade, I think this comment section has ran its course, would you please consider closing for now.
anonymous
my nonsense has been won over by your nonsense may your nonsense be
the building foundation on a new nonsence nation with an anonymous
nature.
KMC, AFTER MUCH THOUGHT AND RESEARCH I HAVE FIGURED IT OUT. YOU HAVE LEARNED AT THE ROGER MORAN SCHOOL OF SUPPOSED CHRISTIAN BEHAVIOUR. THERE HAVE BEEN OTHERS.
Otto - Like every other comment you have ever made, I have no idea what you are babbling about.
Perhaps a fitting end to this comment section.
Shut 'er down!
Dear K. Michael,
You do know that "ihs" does NOT mean "in his service" (which explains the use of lower case letters), but rather are the Greek letters iota-eta-sigma, a New Testament era abbreviation of the name "Jesus" as spelled in Greek? Right, you knew that? Or do you normally sign your letters, as Jesus/K. Michael"?
Because He lives,
John Fariss
Just a simple request -- who wrote the women in ministry series?
john farris:
Thank you for your Christ-like attempt to correct me. But no corection is needed thank you. "ihs" has been used for centuries as you have suggested. But this christogram has been adapted in at least 3 additional ways (Iesus Hominum Salvator--'Jesus Savior of Men'/ "In His Service"/ In hoc signo vinces 'in this sign you shall conquer')and who are you to tell me how I can or cannot use a centuries old Christian symbol?
It is pretty much implied by my use of it, that by it I do indeed mean "in his service."
You will simply have to live with that.
K
Anon,
What research have you done that has led you to the conclusion that have learned anything from Mr. Moran? I do not know Mr. Moran. I do not run in circles who care for Mr. Moran's views. But I will tell you this. I would much rather err on the side of Roger Moran than to sit back in a wide tent and allow all manner of unregenerate liberals think they part of the family.
K
DO YOU THINK HE IS REGENERATE?
I do not doubt for a moment that he is. You on the other hand...
anonymous:
maybe you will understand this ?Your lack of understanding may be the reason you hide behind your anonymous postings.
THE END
Otto - I could care less that my being anonymous bothers you, but for your information, I am serving as a missionary with the IMB.
How's your Americanized life of comfort going for you as you "serve" and "suffer" for the Lord.
I suspect that you are as selfish and as lazy as your comments make you sound.
"And he said, What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person."
19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 21 You have heard that it was said to those of old, You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment. 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, You fool! will be liable to the hell of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
3 1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. 4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 We should not be like Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother's righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. 2
Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth;
for the Lord has spoken:
Children have I reared and brought up,
but they have rebelled against me.
3
The ox knows its owner,
and the donkey its master's crib,
but Israel does not know,
my people do not understand.
4
Ah, sinful nation,
a people laden with iniquity,
offspring of evildoers,
children who deal corruptly!
They have forsaken the Lord,
they have despised the Holy One of Israel,
they are utterly estranged.
5
Why will you still be struck down?
Why will you continue to rebel?
The whole head is sick,
and the whole heart faint.
6
From the sole of the foot even to the head,
there is no soundness in it,
but bruises and sores
and raw wounds;
they are not pressed out or bound up
or softened with oil.
7
Your country lies desolate;
your cities are burned with fire;
in your very presence
foreigners devour your land;
it is desolate, as overthrown by foreigners.
8
And the daughter of Zion is left
like a booth in a vineyard,
like a lodge in a cucumber field,
like a besieged city.
9
If the Lord of hosts
had not left us a few survivors,
we should have been like Sodom,
and become like Gomorrah.
10
Hear the word of the Lord,
you rulers of , Sodom!
Give ear to the teaching of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!
11
What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices?
says the Lord;
I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
and the fat of well-fed beasts;
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
or of lambs, or of goats.
12
When you come to appear before me,
who has required of you
this trampling of my courts?
13
Bring no more vain offerings;
incense is an abomination to me.
New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—
I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
14
Your new moons and your appointed feasts
my soul hates;
they have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
15
When you spread out your hands,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers,
I will not listen;
your hands are full of blood.
16
Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
17
learn to do good;
seek justice,
correct oppression;
bring justice to the fatherless,
plead the widow's cause.
18
Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord:
though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red like crimson,
they shall become like wool.
19
If you are willing and obedient,
you shall eat the good of the land;
20
but if you refuse and rebel,
you shall be eaten by the sword;
for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.
21
How the faithful city
has become a whore,
she who was full of justice!
Righteousness lodged in her,
but now murderers.
22
Your silver has become dross,
your best wine mixed with water.
23
Your princes are rebels
and companions of thieves.
Everyone loves a bribe
and runs after gifts.
They do not bring justice to the fatherless,
and the widow's cause does not come to them.
24
Therefore the Lord declares,
the Lord of hosts,
the Mighty One of Israel:
Ah, I will get relief from my enemies
and avenge myself on my foes.
25
I will turn my hand against you
and will smelt away your dross as with lye
and remove all your alloy.
26
And I will restore your judges as at the first,
and your counselors as at the beginning.
Afterward you shall be called the city of righteousness,
the faithful city.
27
Zion shall be redeemed by justice,
and those in her who repent, by righteousness.
28
But rebels and sinners shall be broken together,
and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.
29
For they shall be ashamed of the oaks
that you desired;
and you shall blush for the gardens
that you have chosen.
30
For you shall be like an oak
whose leaf withers,
and like a garden without water.
31
And the strong shall become tinder,
and his work a spark,
and both of them shall burn together,
with none to quench them.
3 1 And he said to me, Son of man, eat whatever you find here. Eat this scroll, and go, speak to the house of Israel. 2 So I opened my mouth, and he gave me this scroll to eat. 3 And he said to me, Son of man, feed your belly with this scroll that I give you and fill your stomach with it. Then I ate it, and it was in my mouth as sweet as honey. 4 And he said to me, Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with my words to them. 5 For you are not sent to a people of foreign speech and a hard language, but to the house of Israel— 6 not to many peoples of foreign speech and a hard language, whose words you cannot understand. Surely, if I sent you to such, they would listen to you. 7 But the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, for they are not willing to listen to me. Because all the house of Israel have a hard forehead and a stubborn heart. 8 Behold, I have made your face as hard as their faces, and your forehead as hard as their foreheads. 9 Like emery harder than flint have I made your forehead. Fear them not, nor be dismayed at their looks, for they are a rebellious house. 10 Moreover, he said to me, Son of man, all my words that I shall speak to you receive in your heart, and hear with your ears. 11 And go to the exiles, to your people, and speak to them and say to them, Thus says the Lord God, whether they hear or refuse to hear. 12 Then the Spirit lifted me up, and I heard behind me the voice of a great earthquake: Blessed be the glory of the Lord from its place! 13 It was the sound of the wings of the living creatures as they touched one another, and the sound of the wheels beside them, and the sound of a great earthquake. 14 The Spirit lifted me up and took me away, and I went in bitterness in the heat of my spirit, the hand of the Lord being strong upon me. 15 And I came to the exiles at Tel-abib, who were dwelling by the Chebar canal, and I sat where they were dwelling. And I sat there overwhelmed among them seven days. 16 And at the end of seven days, the word of the Lord came to me: 17 Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me. 18 If I say to the wicked, You shall surely die, and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked person shall die for his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die for his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul. 20 Again, if a righteous person turns from his righteousness and commits injustice, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die. Because you have not warned him, he shall die for his sin, and his righteous deeds that he has done shall not be remembered, but his blood I will require at your hand. 21 But if you warn the righteous person not to sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he took warning, and you will have delivered your soul. 22 And the hand of the Lord was upon me there. And he said to me, Arise, go out into the valley, and there I will speak with you. 23 So I arose and went out into the valley, and behold, the glory of the Lord stood there, like the glory that I had seen by the Chebar canal, and I fell on my face. 24 But the Spirit entered into me and set me on my feet, and he spoke with me and said to me, Go, shut yourself within your house. 25 And you, O son of man, behold, cords will be placed upon you, and you shall be bound with them, so that you cannot go out among the people. 26 And I will make your tongue cling to the roof of your mouth, so that you shall be mute and unable to reprove them, for they are a rebellious house. 27 But when I speak with you, I will open your mouth, and you shall say to them, Thus says the Lord God. He who will hear, let him hear; and he who will refuse to hear, let him refuse, for they are a rebellious house.
Ezekiel,
I hope you filched Wade's Blog with his permission.
Phil in Norman.
Phil,
The way I see it, this isn't Wade's blog any more than it is yours or mine. Says so here.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
And to the extent that I feel led or authorized to use it by my Father, I will.
I see that scripture still offends today. That is all I quoted, to go out and accomplish the will of my Father. I am assured that it will not return void.
16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
20If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch" 22referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.
This blog either will or has passed away. Some day. But the words that I quoted earlier today never will. They will apply to future generations of people that choose to practice religion and fight for it,(the practice thereof) while denying Christ by their works just as much today and in the future as it did the day it was written.
16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
Wade's blog has been effective in pointing out not only the hypocracy in leadership of the SBC but that also of its members. Take a look at some of the posts lately and see if you see the same thing I do. It truly is sick from the sole of it's foot to the head. Isaiah 1:6
6 From the sole of the foot even to the head,
there is no soundness in it,
but bruises and sores
and raw wounds;
they are not pressed out or bound up
or softened with oil.
The church. Israel today.
Rather than preach mercy and grace today as a liscense to sin, may be we ought to be teaching it (mercy and grace) the way it was taught in the OT. It is the only thing keep Him from burning us up today. Right now. His long suffering and patience with a hard hearted stiff necked people, waiting and hoping they will turn back to Him.
The way I see it, this isn't Wade's blog any more than it is yours or mine.
ezekiel: You are wrong. It's still wade's blog, not yours. You cannot use it at will. I am glad no posts have been deleted, it shows the real spirit of some who have posted here. Taking scripture out of context doesn't help your case either.
I should add ezekiel that you have helped mine however, and for that I sincerely thank you. :)
THE PROSECUTOR OF MARTIN LUTHER, WAS HE REGENERATE, THE KILLER OF JOHN HUSS? THE INQUISITOR WHO KILLED TENS OF THOUSANDS IN THE NAME OF PURE DOCTRINE, WAS HE REGENERATE? WAS HITLER WHO CLAIMED HE WAS A CHRISTIAN AND THE GESTOPO WHO'S BELT BUCKLES SAID "GOD IS WITH US".
AN EASY WORD TO THROW AROUND, BUT WE WILL ALL REAP WHAT WE SOW.
Debbie,
A few thoughts...
1)In the context of 1 Cor 3, I am confident that none of the works we do that are truly in His name and in His purpose or will, are ours. Something along the lines of "no longer I that live but Christ in me" or something like that. I would hope that "Wades blog" was more than "Wades blog". I would hope that it was the the workmanship or work product of Christ through Wade.
2)I thought I made it pretty clear that I didn't own it any more than Phil did. Saying "You are wrong. It's still Wade's blog, not yours." implies an ownership that I have quite clearly disclaimed from the beginning.
3)All I did this morning was quote some scripture. It must have been quite convicting for some. To say that by quoting scripture I somehow attempt to own the blog is an error. Unless of course you want to say that by commenting here, you attempt to own it or any of the more avid posters here attempt to own it with volumes and epistles of their own comments. In fact, I would think that ownership would be about the last thing anyone would want to claim, considering some of the latest posts.
4)The parable of the talents pertaining to the Master giving them 1,5,10 talents but eventually asking for them back is the context in which I commented, that along with 1 Cor 3. I hope this helps.
5)As to "your blog". You don't own it either if you are doing it right. It is your work, and that was prepared before hand....
4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
In conclusion, I don't think you can show me ownership of much of anything in the context of the Master/servant relationship used to illustrate many of the parables and teachings of Christ, Paul or the other disciples. Most of them were instructed to go about with one set of clothes and a pair of sandles.
Even put in a worldly context, show me your deed, or title to your blog. Better yet, meet me with a copy in hand along with all your riches in Jerusalem when we meet. :)
Ezekiel,
I'm sure you wouldn't mind us coming over and spray painting scriptural graffiti all over the house that Christ let's you live in either. Naturally any annoyance at such a display would only be your offense at Scripture, not the motive and method of the ones using it. :)
"could it be SATAN?"
Hmmmm...If my memory is correct...isn't satan well versed in the Scriptures? Seems he twisted them to his liking while tempting Jesus. What's your take on this Ezekiel?
On a serious note - cudos to Wade for provoking thought on some issues in SBC life. Whether we agree or disagree...I'm thankful and appreciative.
Debbie,
When we talk of reading the whole counsel of God, I agree. From Genesis to Revelations. I think what you will find is that as a people, we make the same mistakes Israel did, in spite of all the warnings by the prophets and even His Son. We have turned Mercy and Grace from those things which God extends to us though long suffering and much patience, (2 Peter 3:9-12) into a belief that He is just going to look the other way and accept all our sin. Paul tells us "God forbid".(Romans 6:1-2)
I would suggest a message that you might take to those other countries you talk about would be...
Jude 1:5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
Then you might just find that the message needs to be preached here just as much if not more.
When you can read it from cover to cover and show me how a people that walked out of Egypt through the Red sea, following a pillar of fire and a cloud could have been destroyed for unbelief and show me where our belief differs from theirs, we might have a starting point for a lively discussion.
In fact, one might even ask what your doing in that other country. There appears to be more than enough work here, in the pew next to you.
When you talk of "balance" can you tell me how much balance there was in Elijah's message? Wasn't it "make up your mind, how long are you going to halt between two opinions? Are you going to serve Baal or Christ?
I think that would be a more pertinant question to be asking many.
Darby,
Are you saying David had it wrong?
10Therefore David blessed the LORD in the presence of all the assembly. And David said: "Blessed are you, O LORD, the God of Israel our father, forever and ever. 11 Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, and you are exalted as head above all. 12 Both riches and honor come from you, and you rule over all. In your hand are power and might, and in your hand it is to make great and to give strength to all. 13And now we thank you, our God, and praise your glorious name.
14"But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able thus to offer willingly? For all things come from you, and of your own have we given you. 15 For we are strangers before you and sojourners, as all our fathers were. Our days on the earth arelike a shadow, and there is no abiding. 16O LORD our God, all this abundance that we have provided for building you a house for your holy name comes from your hand and is all your own.
How's your Americanized life of comfort going for you as you "serve" and "suffer" for the Lord."
Any missionary with this attitude should be brought home immediately, stripped of their credentials, FIRED, disciplined by their church, and beat with a wet noodle.
I am adding you to my list of those who are a shame to the Cross:
1. Bill Webb
2. Ben Cole
3. Anon M who says stupid things on Wade's Blog.
~K(eeper of the list)
How's your Americanized life of comfort going for you as you "serve" and "suffer" for the Lord."
Wow, I agree that comment was way out-of-bounds. Granted, Anon is probably spot on when talking about the majority...the vast majority of American Believers and I put myself at the head of the list. I haven't suffered and truth be told compared to others I haven't really served. I think of the classic line in the Screwtape Letters (and I paraphrase)...In the end what Hell really wants is a person who says, "I neither did what I liked or what I ought."
So Anon, I'll step ahead of Otto and take those comments for myself but you will need to repent of your haughty attitude and arrogance.
John in the STL
John in StL,
I repent. Even though the reality is that my comment fits Otto, KMC, and most other Americans (as you have said) to a "T", that is not really my attitude. The fact is, I couldn't care less about Otto. I knew KMC was lurking and I was using Otto to get to KMC. You see, my real goal was to get KMC's goat.
It took me a while, but...
"it is finished!"
Thanks KMC.
Sincerely, I enjoyed the ride guys. Thank you all for forgiving each other as we serve Him together.
Thanks Wade and take care all.
anonymous
your insults to me say more about you than me AND IF YOU ARE A REAL SBC MISSIONARY ?
I am ashamed that my tithes and offering are supporting you and that you are representing Christ under the SBC Banner now I understand why you you are anonymous.
If you want to prove your self right please call the Tampa Bay Baptist Association they can tell you about me
othiniel and Kmichael: STOP!(yes, that is cyberyelling). I'm ashamed of both of you.
anonymousm: I think you asked a good question. I am proud that you are serving under the Southern Baptist banner.
Ezekiel: The way to interpret scripture is by taking all of scripture. Scripture from Genesis to Revelation points to Christ alone. When read with this in mind, it puts the passage you gave into proper context. You are reading and giving scripture as if Christ did not die on the cross, raise again. I think you need to stop commenting and start reading in that context. It changes everything.
Debbie,
I quoted a lot of scripture, can you be more specific? When we talk of proper context, is that mine or yours? When we talk about everything pointing to Christ, I would argue that it was all Christ to begin with. He was there from day one. So it doesn't just point to Christ, it is all about Christ. See 1 Cor 10, Hebrews 3 and Jude
As to the stop commenting, when did you become queen of the blog? If you have objections to what I post, state them, be specific and let's study a little WORD together. I don't mind talking to you, might actually learn something from you and don't even object to treating you as an equal. What is really interesting is that you are so eager to tell someone what to do, yet contend vigorously with anyone that would tell you the same thing.
If you don't mind, I think I will learn a little from Elijah and just stand my ground for now. Who knows, I might wind up in a cave talking to myself later on, but then I would be in good company, right?
The church lady,
Yes, isn't it amazing how the promises of satan still seem to work so well for him?
He still promises Luke 4:7 and some go for it. Others follow the commandment in 4:8 also found in several other places in the WORD.
Yet the spirit of Elijah still lives. (1 Kings 18:21) or even that of Moses in Deuteronomy 28:14-15.
Otto - The reason many of us are ashamed of your comments is because some of us know your relationship with the Tampa Assoc. already.
You have so much more to be ashamed of than what your tithes and offerings are being used for sir.
Also, your sentence deframentations and puncuation use are pretty bad. Just FYI.
Like the anonymous above, I am also done with Otto and KMC's nonsense. I also want to give my thanks to Wade for the blog. Blessings on your journey and may we "meet" again soon.
I left a "t" out of the word punctuation just for you Otto.
I'm sure you noticed that...
...didn't you? :)
anonymous :
I am just glad to be able to make you feel better about your- self I promise to have more shortcomings so
that you may improve on your grammar and self-love.
Wade,
Before you fade into blogging history, could you keep your promise and reveal the name of the person who penned the Biblical Primer on Women in the Ministry?
Thanks in advance.
Joe W.
At this point, what does it really matter? Move on already.
It matters because it was a promise that has not been kept. Maybe he could not keep the promise because it would defeat his intention of posting the series.
Am I baiting? Perhaps? But still a promise that needs to be kept.
Wade wrote this on April 25th... "This is the seventh and final part of a series on 'Women in Ministry,' written by a recent graduate of Southwestern Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas. Later this week I will reveal the identity of this man and direct you to where you can read more of his writings. As I have stated before, I do not agree with every view held by this Southern Baptist writer, but I find it refreshing when a person with a high view of the sacred text defends his egalitarian position with such skill. My point in posting this series is to remind all Southern Baptists that there are conservatives who disagree on various interpretations of the sacred text, but it should not disrupt our fellowship around Jesus Christ and Him crucified."
Why should Wade give the name?
1) Because Wade claims to be a man of his word, and yet nearly a month has passed since he made the promise to reveal the name in one week.
2) Because with as busy a schedule as Wade has, he still found time for 12 other blog posts.
3) Because without a name, it is impossible to judge if in fact this ghost writer really does hold a "high view of the sacred text" or is a "conservative".
4) Because hundreds and perhaps thousands of people took time out of their busy lives to read these 7 posts, with the promise that when the last one was posted a name would be given.
5) Because I asked nicely and have waited patiently... :)
why is it that only the attack dogs even care? the women articles are well documented and well written. Wade does not have to answer to you.All real Christians recognize the Godliness and integrity of Wade, but as for you and a couple others........?
"answer not a fool and his folly"
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth4160 evil fruit.
Wade's fruit for decades speak for him. ENOUGH!
ENOUGH? Keeping a promise to reveal the source, unless there is something that would prove embarrasing, is more than ENOUGH.
Wade, Please do not reveal the poor guy's name. As you can see the dogs are salivating to rip him apart. They won't be happy until they track him down and try to ruin his ministry.
They are not interested to just discuss content. They gotta get the guy. They are obsessed.
Joe thinks that by knowing his name he can tell if he is 'conservative' or has a 'high view of scripture'. I still have not figured that one out.
Let's leave the poor guy in peace away from the magistrates who want his head on a platter. He is probably sorry he even dared allow you to publish it considering the police dogs we now have in the SBC who are out to ruin anyone who dares has another interpretation of a secondary doctrine.
I mean, we all know that women can only be saved through the work of childbirth. Why fight it?
Lucy
Lucy,
IMHO ministering to others as Jesus did during his earthly ministry is the responsibility of all Christians, male and female. However, in His wisdom, God gave the chore of childbirth to woman and as a man, I sincerely appreciate his decision. :)
Now, if Pastor Burleson did indeed promise to reveal the author of "Women in Ministry" writings, I'm sure he will in due time. He or she won't be the first, nor the last, to propose something from Scripture that challenges the contemporary thinking of the religious elite. The author has nothing of any true consequence to fear.
Lucy,
You wrote... "Joe thinks that by knowing his name he can tell if he is 'conservative' or has a 'high view of scripture'. I still have not figured that one out."
Wade wrote... "Later this week I will reveal the identity of this man and direct you to where you can read more of his writings."
Lucy, it is not his name, but rather his writings that will determine if indeed this man holds a "high view of the sacred text" and is a "conservative" as Wade has claimed.
Whay should Wade give his name... because Wade had said... "My point in posting this series is to remind all Southern Baptists that there are conservatives who disagree on various interpretations of the sacred text, but it should not disrupt our fellowship around Jesus Christ and Him crucified."
How are we to know if Wade has made his point, if he fails to keep his promise and name the writer?
Living Dust,
Lucy is right. There are thousands of people from janitors to librarians to teachers, professors, pastors and missionaries that the attack machine intentionally destroyed in the name of purity. Some only disagreed on minor issues. Unless you have been left homeless, lost your job, health insurance, retirement, etc. you cannot know the full evil of this bunch.
I read Mark 9: 50 this morning and have a few questions I would like someone to help me with.
"38 John said to him, Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us. 39 But Jesus said, Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. 40 For the one who is not against us is for us."
Can this be said, in the framework of cooperative missions, to apply to Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, and anyone else doing a mighty work in the name of Christ?
" 41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward."
If, in the context of cooperative missions, we won't accept a cup of water(help or encouragement) from a Methodist or anyone that has a different interpretation of scripture do we sin? Do we sin if we refuse to offer a cup of water for the same reason?
" 42 Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. 43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched."
How did kids get into this? Does this really mean young christians, some that might not have all the doctrines down to a T or immature christians? Do we cause them to sin by being so dogmatic in our practice of religion that we cause them to focus on the practice of religion and not on Christ?
49 For everyone will be salted with fire. 50 Salt is good, but if the salt has lost its saltiness, how will you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.
Doesn't sound too Baptist does it?
Setting missions aside for a moment, how does this apply or does it apply to the church we sit in every Sunday and the people we sit with.
"IMHO ministering to others as Jesus did during his earthly ministry is the responsibility of all Christians, male and female. However, in His wisdom, God gave the chore of childbirth to woman and as a man, I sincerely appreciate his decision. :)"
I could not agree more. I was referring to the SBC 'works coalition' who believe that passage means a woman must stay in her 'role' to be saved. There are saved women who have not borne children. And there are women who have borne children who are not saved. Yet, they STILL believe their interpretation is correct. Go figure.
Joe wrote: Lucy, it is not his name, but rather his writings that will determine if indeed this man holds a "high view of the sacred text" and is a "conservative" as Wade has claimed."
Well Joe, you have his writings. And I am guessing that you have already made up your mind about whether he has a high view of scripture or is a conservative from his writing. How will knowing his name change that? Would you change your opinion of secondary doctrines if he told you it was Al Mohler? Or Paige Patterson? Perhaps you would.
Quite frankly, I am worried for the poor guy. One cannot have a civil debate on differences in secondary doctrines in the SBC anymore.
Lucy
Joe W.
Wade Burleson wrote in the comment section Part VII of the series;
The author of this series is a Southern Baptist pastor named Nic (Nicolas) Gold. He is the Administrative Pastor at Christian Freedom Southern Baptist Church in Kings Mountain, North Carolina.
Nic graduated from Southwestern Theological Seminary in May 2007 with a Master of Arts in Theology Degree. He wrote the paper produced in this seven part series for his systematic theology class during the 2002-2003 school year.
Nic is an inerrantist and began the paper with a view of women in ministry that he called 'traditional,' but allowed the sacred text to guide his conclusions for the paper. During his study, his views changed, under no influence but the Bible. He now views himself as an evangelical egalitarian because of his studies of the sacred text on the issue.
His church is Southern Baptist and gives to the Cooperative Program, Lottie Moon, and all the other designated missions offerings. Nic and his wife Lisa and their children absolutely love the church where they serve and minister to a congregation of about 800 in weekly attendance (and growing).
Thanks anonymous, and Wade.
Joe,
You and others would rather argue and fuss and fight than read what was written by Wade, as promised, as to the id of the writer of the seven part series.
Your attitude, which seems to be a little less that Christian, toward other shows through way too much. You need to mature in your inter personal skills, that is the way you relate to other people, and in your level of Christian maturity. You seem to be a quart low.
If you have anything else to say do it on your own blog. I am tired of hearing you yap and gripe. Enough is enough.
RP in FL
Lucy said;
Wade, Please do not reveal the poor guy's name. As you can see the dogs are salivating to rip him apart. They won't be happy until they track him down and try to ruin his ministry.
As the admistratrix of the "New BBC Open Forum", a forum which thrives on the secrecy of its members as they spread their unfounded gossip, it's no surprise that Lucy would prefer the author to remain nameless.
However, the author probably wrote the series to enlighten others, not slander them, so he/she has not reason to remain hidden.
RP in FL,
Just to be clear, Wade posted on the information Wed May 21, 11:55:00 AM 2008 (today) on the April post of the Biblical Primer on Women. It would have been nice if he had posted it here, but no matter to me.
And... since when did asking a quetion become "less than Christian"? When did answering someone else's question become "less than Christian"?
Hey Joe
GE 3:1 "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "DID GOD REALLY SAY, YOU MUST NOT EAT FROM ANY TREE IN THE GARDEN?"
It depends on the heart. spirit, and intent. "....
God knows the secrets of the heart" Ps 44
PR 16:2 "All a man's ways seem innocent to him, but motives are weighed by the LORD."
The key is both fearing God and loving God.
"You will be judged according to your conduct and your actions, declares the Sovereign LORD." Ez 24
Math 12:36 "But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken".
YES, IT CAN BE BAD TO ASK A QUESTION. YOUR TONE TRULY HAS BEEN LESS THAN CHRISTIAN FOR MANY MONTHS. I PRAY FOR YOU AS YOU CONTINUE YOUR JOURNEY.
"anonymous 10:56" wrote:
"As the admistratrix of the 'New BBC Open Forum', a forum which thrives on the secrecy of its members as they spread their unfounded gossip, it's no surprise that Lucy would prefer the author to remain nameless."
Hmmm... so is that why you posted anonymously?
Look, someone just notified me about this post. I haven't read this blog in nearly a week, and after my less than warm reception the last time I posted, I promised myself I'd never post here again. However, I must respond to an obvious case of mistaken identity, and then I will crawl back into my hole and let this deep theological discussion continue. Rest assured I have no idea who "Lucy" is and have never posted anything anywhere using that name.
The rest of your comment is so ridiculous it doesn't even deserve acknowledgement, but I will offer this bit of advice: Invest in a dictionary. "Admistratrix" isn't a word. My proper "title," if you must, is moderator. I also answer to "recalcitrant tool of Satan" or "hey, you!"
Now, if you'll excuse me, I must go spread some more "unfounded gossip." Of course, no one can ever cite one example of said gossip, but what else is new?
Carry on!
Notastepfordsheep
I was wondering who the author was, too, but Lucy made a good point, one I hadn't considered. They, and that includes some of the posters here, will crucify the person who wrote that and won't stop until they destroy him, so Wade may be doing him a favor by not revealing his name.
I rarely check in on this blog more than once every 2-3 weeks. I can't take any more than that of the bickering over minutia. All some here seem to be concerned with is one-upping each other and putting people in their places. I think Wade exercises great tolerance and restraint, more than I could under the same circumstances. It's disgraceful the way he's been treated, and why he still seems so loyal to the SBC is beyond me. Wade, you are truly a class act! Blessings to you, sir.
Joe W.,
We’ve tangled before, but I’ve gotten tired of all the abuse you’ve been getting for asking a simple question why a ‘promise’ was not fulfilled of identifying the author of the seven post that a lot of us have enjoyed.
I don’t know why Wade was so late in releasing his name, but the way it was done was a little under the table or whatever and is almost funny.
When ANONYMOUS wrote you, “Wade Burleson wrote in the comment section Part VII of the series; etc”, I thought all of us had overlooked it, and Wade had done in April what he said he would do.
When you wrote that Wade had told the name today, I wondered why someone would just happen to be reading something almost a month old. It’s almost like finding a hidden murder weapon in a jungle.
Was it a ‘miracle’ that within five minutes of Wade’s comment (11:55) you are told (12:00), or did Wade simply copy-paste his comment of May 21 on the April 25 post, and then copy-paste the same comment to you on May 21?
I consider Wade a friend, and I’m not doing this to cause him harm. I think he found himself between a rock and a hard place in that he said he would not comment again but realized he had a promise to keep.
The SBC needs men like you in leadership. I'll miss your blog, will look forward to your books, pray for your ministry, and look forward to what God calls you to do in the SBC.
Dear Pastor Wade,
Thank you for being so gracious and kind to me. Your encouragement went a long way to help me heal from many old wounds and disappointments. If I ever get anywhere near Enid, I'm coming to visit and if I only make it to Norman (the more likely possibility), I'm going to look up your dad!
God bless you for all you've done and may He reward you for all the time and effort that you've put into this blog -- at least 100 fold!
In agape,
Cindy Kunsman
K. Michael Crowder,
WOW! If ever there was a case for the Pot calling the Kettle black! Your comments here are truly hypocritical. You have done far more name calling (just on this blog) than Ben Cole has ever done.
Maybe the SBC membership should look toward you in the same light as you expect them to look toward him.
If you are truly a representation of what your church believes, then I feel sorry for your congregation!
Grace and humility obviously are qualities that you do not possess!
I hope (no, I pray) that God does a work in you to teach you the grace and humility you need to truly be a man of God!
Peace be with you.
James Sissney Jr.
Wade,
What can I say that has not already been said.
Thanks does no justice!
At least post a blog when you return from Indy and let us know how it went.
Jim
opkoHey Jim, I see you are an Okie. Amen! I once knew a Sisney named Terry about 50 miles from where you live
any connection?
(ahhh, red dirt, high winds! what a childhood!)
grace
wtreat
wtreat@centurytel.net
uh-hum, not sure how the letters got in the intro of the last post. to many long nights and short days i suspect.
forgiveness is requested. :-)
wtreat
Hey folks, ya think we got trouble? At least most of us don't belong to Bellevue BC in Memphis!!
Talk about a minefield!
Steve
Talk about a minefield!
What is going on at Bellevue BC in Memphis?
There's only like a dozen blogs about Bellevue's troubles, mostly anti- the current "ins." Pastor Dr. Gaines had a staff member with a sex deal blow up in his face and they're down to having court decisions and up-or-down votes on keeping the pastor or asking dozens of members to leave who end up in the minority. The church's minimal by-laws would allow anybody to walk in & vote on church decisions and that's happened. Money and power are the apparent focus of conflict, like usually happens.
Of course, one of the seminaries traditionally considered this to be their home church, and I gather several SBC higher-ups are members.
I wonder if a network might work up a show about BBC. Would it be a comedy or a soap-drama?
Of course, all this plays out while Memphis tunnels toward hell faster than a rabid gopher.
wtreat,
My guess is that the Terry you speak of is from the Ponca City area. We might be related somewhere way back (maybe back to Adam) but I am not sure. I believe that clan up there spells their name Sisney wheras, my clan spells it Sissney.
That reddirt and highwind passed about 7 miles south of my house last night. Got the little woman all freaked out. She was in OKC when it started and the kiddoes were home with a babysitter. I am working in North Dakota. So you can only imagine how bad she was freaking.
I was glad to see that noone got hurt.
It stinks that Wade is giving this up for a while. But, I do understand the reasoning. Hopefully, it won't all have been for naught.
Jim, can you write me at wtreat@centurytel.net
we can not use this blog if we have an email
By the way, not Poncajzrh
:-)
wtreat@centuryel.net
Enjoy your break, Wade. I once took a break from blogging too.
I wish you well on the books you're completing.
Here’s an idea. Even if our leader is gone, could we not carry on his work?
His ‘work’ was reporting news. Wade posted “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse” by Jeff VanVonderen. Jeff wrote:
“One unspoken rule in the Spiritual Abusive System is NEVER DISAGREE WITH AUTHORITIES…the person who speaks about a problem must become the problem. The person becomes the problem by being accused of being arrogant, angry…to attempt to keep the silence maintained and discredit the person who raises the issues that need addressing.”
An example is an 18 year missionary, Rodney Hammer, who was the Southern Baptist IMB regional leader for Central and Eastern Europe the past eight years. Wade posted on Tuesday May 6, 2008 about him resigning because of the new IMB rules on baptism and having a private prayer language for NEW missionaries; which is why Wade started his blog.
The Baptist Standard, May 26, 2008 reported why Rodney Hammer resigned and the response of the IMB President, Jerry Rankin:
“We are grateful for Rodney’s passion and vision for leading the region to growth and evangelistic impact these last eight years. We respect his personal convictions and regret that the compelling desire to speak to these issues makes it inappropriate to continue his leadership role. We all had opportunities to speak to the issues…however, once the decision was made, it is essential the policies of the board be respected and supported.”
STRANGE how Hammer (who does not have a private prayer language) put his job on the line for the rights of Jerry Rankin and others to continue their beliefs, but what did his DISAGREEING WITH AUTHORITIES get him?
STRANGER THAN THAT, on the same page, the Standard reported the statement of Frank Page, President of the SBC at the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina:
“The SBC is dying rapidly, and resistance to change could kill more than half the denomination’s churches by 2030…The problem resided in the churches that refuse to change to stop their inevitable demise. The SBC downturn is not the denomination’s fault.”
DUHH…? I believe Page is smart enough to know he is in a ‘Spiritual Abusive System’, and if he gave the real reason, HE WOULD BECOME THE PROBLEM.
Spurgeon had it right then and now. He called it Popery. We see it manifested today all over the church and the SBC.
Those that expose it will not be any better received than those that exposed it before.
"Cursed be the man before the Lord, that riseth up and buildeth this city Jericho." --Joshua 6:26 Since he was cursed who rebuilt Jericho, I much more the man who labours to restore Popery among us. In our fathers' days the gigantic walls of Popery fell by the power of their faith, the perseverance of their efforts, and the blast of their gospel trumpets; and now there are some who would rebuild that accursed system upon its old foundation. O Lord, be pleased to thwart their unrighteous endeavours, and pull down every stone which they build. It should be a serious business with us to be thoroughly purged of every error which may have a tendency to foster the spirit of Popery, and when we have made a clean sweep at home we should seek in every way to oppose its all too rapid spread abroad in the church and in the world. This last can be done in secret by fervent prayer, and in public by decided testimony. We must warn with judicious boldness those who are inclined towards the errors of Rome; we must instruct the young in gospel truth, and tell them of the black doings of Popery in the olden times. We must aid in spreading the light more thoroughly through the land, for priests, like owls, hate daylight. Are we doing all we can for Jesus and the gospel? If not, our negligence plays into the hands of the priestcraft. What are we doing to spread the Bible, which is the Pope's bane and poison? Are we casting abroad good, sound gospel writings? Luther once said, "The devil hates goose quills" and, doubtless, he has good reason, for ready writers, by the Holy Spirit's blessing, have done his kingdom much damage. If the thousands who will read this short word this night will do all they can to hinder the rebuilding of this accursed Jericho, the Lord's glory shall speed among the sons of men. Reader, what can you do? What will you do?
Wade,
This Okie extends a much belated thank-you for the many self-sacrificing deeds you have done in communicating the current crisis in SBC agency leadership. The principles for which you have stood and are standing are cornerstones in historic Baptist perspective. Hopefully, there is a day coming that John Q. Baptist will realize that while the target of some SBC agency heads is anyone who, on principle, voices dissent in areas of secondary issues, their ultimate victim will be to damage or destroy the freedom of expression of fundamental freedoms historically held dear by millions of Southern Baptists.
Thanks again for your selfless contributions to addressing these issues. Moreover, I wish you well in taking a breather from the blog world. . .with the hope that you will reappear to carry on the struggle at some point in the future.
In His Grace and Peace,
T. D. Webb
I must give our host props as well. I've never paid attention to anything beyond my local fellowship until I started reading G&T to You. While my interest isn't high enough to warrant a trip to a national convention, it's getting where I do follow the SBC in greater detail.
It's encouraging to see some solid resolutions this year and I hope there are some that pertain to kids actually being allowed to be born.
John in STL
Post a Comment