For the sake of Kurdistan and the lives of the Kurds, I can not understand why President Trump is siding with President Erdogan.
Who are the Kurdish people?
They are the Medes in the Bible. They are the descendants of Madai, one of the sixteen grandsons of Noah (see Genesis 10:2).
The Medes settled in Amida, a city that carried their name (a-madai). Amida was renamed Diyarbakur in the 7th century AD by the conquering Muslim Arabs during during the early Muslim conquests of Persia. The Arabs called the ethnic Medes who lived in the Zagros Mountains by the Arabic name Kurds. The Arabs had found the land of the highly intelligent and industrial Medes dotted with cities surrounded by beautiful black asphalt walls and copper resources. Divarbakir is an Arabic name which means "land of bakr (Kurd) people." The ethnic Medes fell under Arab Muslim domination.
Today Divarbakir (or ancient Amida) is the largest city in southeastern Turkey and it has an overwhelming majority of ethnic Kurds that populate the city and region. Ancient Amida (modern Divarbakir) is the unofficial capital of Kurdistan, the name for the region that encompasses portions of four countries (Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and Iran) where the Kurdish people live. The ethnic Kurds number 35 million strong and compose the world's largest stateless nation. Kurdistan is only a geographical region; but according to an October 9, 2019 statement from Ayelet Shaked, the former Israel Justice Minister, Kurdistan should be its own nation.
The Muslim Arabs (Sunnis and Shias) of Syria, Turkey, Iran, and Iraq have always struggled with what to do with the ethnic Kurds. Why?
The Medes (Kurds) of southeast Turkey, northern Syria, northwestern Iran, and northern Iraq are different ethnically, culturally, and historically from the conquering Sunni Muslim Arabs in Turkey and Iraq and from the conquering Shia Muslim Arabs in Syria and Iran.
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| A Kurdish woman and her children fleeing Turkey's invasion |
What we have going on during this October 2019 Turkish invasion of Kurdistan is an ethnic cleansing. It's a holocaust. President Trump should know better than to allow it to happen.
Close family members to the Medes (or modern Kurds) are the Persians in Iran. The descendants of Medai began to multiply and move east from the Zagros Mountains, the mountain range where Noah's ark settled. As the Medes moved south and east, they eventually built cities in modern day Iran where they became known as the Persian people.
The Medes and the Persians come from the same ancestral stock. If you look at the language of today's Medes (Kurds) in Turkey and Syria (a language called Kurmanj or sometimes Kurdish) and compare it to the language of today's Persians in Iran (a language called Farsi), you will see how similar they are when you count from one (yak) to ten (da).
The Medes and the Persians have had their own separate culture, religion, and history from that of the Arabs. When the Arab Muslims moved north from the Arabian Peninsula and conquered the Medes and the Persians during the early Arab Muslim invasions, the Arabs forced Islam on the Medes and Persians. But there has always been hostility between the native ethnic Kurds and Persians and their conquering leaders.
The Arab Muslim fundamentalist Shia government in Iran no more likes the ethnic Persians in their country than the Arab Muslim fundamentalist Sunni government of Turkey likes the ethnic Medes (Kurds) who form the majority of the population in the southeastern portion of their country (Turkey) as well as northern Syria and northern Iraq.
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| The Mede prophet Balaam prophesying the Messiah's coming |
The Medes/Persians gave us the prophet Balaam who in 1500 B.C. announced:
During the 10th century BC, the Hebrews who lived in the northern Kingdom of Israel were captured by an Assyrian king and taken "to the towns of the Medes" (II Kings 18:11), towns and locations that are today in northern Syria, northern Iraq, and southeastern Turkey. The 10 northern tribes of Israel settled in this region of the Zagros mountains called Kurdistan (see map at the top of this blog).
"I see Him... I behold Him... "A star shall come out of Jacob, and a scepter shall rise out Israel...One out of Jacob shall rule." (Numbers 24:17)The oracle from this ancient Mede is considered the first Messianic prophecy of Jesus to come from a foreigner, or one not a Hebrew. Balaam was what people today call a Kurd.
During the 10th century BC, the Hebrews who lived in the northern Kingdom of Israel were captured by an Assyrian king and taken "to the towns of the Medes" (II Kings 18:11), towns and locations that are today in northern Syria, northern Iraq, and southeastern Turkey. The 10 northern tribes of Israel settled in this region of the Zagros mountains called Kurdistan (see map at the top of this blog).
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| Map from Christopher Crossan's book Children of the Magi. |
Over time, the Hebrews of the 10 northern tribes of Israel in the Bible INTERMARRIED with the Medes.
The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) is a radical Sunni Muslim group responsible for terror around the world, including the World Trade Center bombings. (Note: Since 2001, ISIS and Al Qaeda have split into two groups, but originally there was only Al Qaeda).
Guess who has helped us fight ISIS?
The Medes of Kurdistan. They've lost 11,000 men fighting side by side with United States soldiers against ISIS in Iraq and Syria.
In 2001, The American Journal of Human Genetics issued a report entitled "The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East." The article states:
"Jews are more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (i.e. Kurds) than to their Arab neighbors.In other words, the Kurds are more Jewish than Arab. For more information on this migration of Jews to Kurdistan, see Christopher Crossan's superb book entitled Children of the Magi.
The Medes/Persians gave us King Cyrus, whom the prophet Isaiah calls "The Messiah of the Jews" (see Isaiah chapters 44 and 45). King Cyrus freed the Jews of Judea from Babylonian captivity in 539 BC. Even Jews living today revere the ancient Mede/Persian King Cyrus.
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| The Magi (Wise Men) from the East (Mede/Persia) |
The Medes/Persians gave us the Wise Men from the East who came looking for the newborn "King of the Jews" (Matthew 2:1-12). They'd read Daniel's scroll and had been trained in the Mede/Persian School of the Magi.
These Wise Men are what we'd call modern Kurds.
They knew Daniel understood that a great Messiah, "the star from Jacob" mentioned by the Mede prophet Balaam, would be born at that time (see Daniel 11).
After the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ in AD 30, the Good News of Jesus spread rapidly among the areas of the Medes and the Persians during the days of the Parthian Empire (until AD 224) and the days of the Sasinian Empire (until 651 AD). The Medes and Persians (Kurds) came to faith in Jesus because their ancient religion, Zoroastrianism, shared a few similar teachings to the Christian faith, including belief in a Supreme God, a final judgment, and a desire to do good for your fellow man.
But then came the Arab Muslim conquest. Soon, the Medes (e.g. Kurds) and the Persians were forced to submit to Islam (Islam means "submission").
Yet, the Medes and the Persians (now called "the Kurds" by the Arabs), would often rebel against their Arab masters and side with western countries during times of world conflict.
For example, the Sunni Arabs in Turkey founded the Ottoman Empire during the 14th century and attempted to conquer the world and establish a global caliphate. But World War I broke up the Ottoman Empire. Because of the help the Medes (Kurds) gave to western Allies during World War I, the Kurds were promised a land of their own (Kurdistan). The west broke their promise to the Kurds. Kurdistan was never formed. Turkey, Iraq, Syria, and Iran were given their current borders by western powers. The Kurds remained an ethnic group without a country.
Fast forward to World War II. Turkey signed a Non-Aggression Pact with Nazi Germany in 1941. Turkey didn’t declare war on the Reich until 1945. Meanwhile, the ancient Medes (the Kurdish people) were largely living under Allied Forces due to the French Mandate in Syria and the British Mandate in Iraq. The Kurds assisted the Allies in the fight against the Nazis. President Trump recently confused Turkey's unwillingness to fight the Nazis with the Kurds.
Because of their assistance against the Nazis, the Kurds (Medes) were again promised a country of their own by western powers. But the United States and its western allies turned its back on the descendants of Medai (the Kurds) again. The decision not to create Kurdistan and back out on our promise probably had to do with not wanting to offend the post-World War II Arabic governments of Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and Syria.
During the Gulf War, President George Bush promised a country to the Kurds if they helped the United States throw off the government of Saddam Hussein. The Kurds delivered. The United States once again backed out on its promise.
The Battle Against ISIS
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| Kurds fleeing Kurdistan in northern Syria |
But don't count the Kurds out yet. And once the U.S. leaves Syria, the Kurds may well turn to Russia for help in their fight against the Turkish Army.
The Kurdistan Democratic Party of Syria is called a terrorist organization by President Erdogan of Turkey.
I don’t believe a dictator who has jailed more journalists than any other world leader during each of the last three years, and whose bodyguards savagely beat protesters at the door of our own White House. Why would the U.S. side with a radical Muslim dictator (Erdogan) and abandon a Democratic Christian ally?
Like the ancient Jews, Turkey may find out that the people they call terrorists (Kurds) are actually smart, civilized, and battle-hardened. They are in an existential war for their survival.
And like their cousin the Jews, when it is an existential battle, woe be to the army that invades.
Pray for the modern Medes as they fight against an erratic Muslim leader named Erdogan.
Please, President Trump, do not abandon the Syrian Christians that need our help more than ever.
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| Kurdish Democratic Christian soldiers in Syria (source: Christianity Today) |
73 comments:
Thank you for this post, WADE.
Please pray for these people who have helped our soldiers to fight ISIS.
Is anyone surprised at the current POTUS. No clue about reality.
Why is every unfulfilled promise by every preceding President now blamed on Trump? We've had decades to correct, along with the rest of the free world, yet these people still have no country of their own. Who's fault is this really?
ConservUSA,
Not blaming Trump for past promises. However, I am blaming Trump for greenlighting an ethnic purge of Kurds by Erdogan. And you are speaking to one of the most politically conservative men you'll ever meet. This isn't politics. It's humanitarianism.
Trump is not siding with the Ergdon. We need to be careful of our accusations
Mark,
Enes Kanter (Portland Trailblazers, formerly OKC Thunder) is a friend. His family was arrested by Erdogan in Turkey, and Erdogan attempted to arrest Kanter. I talked with Enes in the airport as he attempted to avoid Turkish police. I wish I could tell you how many people in Turkey have been arrested, tortured, and killed by Erdogan.
Trump pulling back the military from the border, full well knowing an invasion was coming, is "siding with Erdogan."
I voted for Trump. I am a conservative Republican.
He may say he doesn't support Erdogan, but when you make it easy for Erdogan to kill men, women and children civilians in Kurdistan, you are supporting Erdogan.
Go back and watch the thugs who are Erdogan's bodyguards maul and beat protestors (Kurdish) outside the WHITE HOUSE.
It's sick.
All charges were dropped against Erdogan's bodyguards. Those men should be in jail.
Wade -- I don't often agree with your position on the Jewish people as they continue to be God's Chosen People; however, you are right on this position.
Dr. Amy Downey -- President
Tzedakah Ministries
Amy,
I love Israel. I love the Jews. I love going to Israel often. As you know, I have a different covenantal perspective than you on Jewish nationalism in terms of God's plan, but that doesn't prevent my love for the Jews as a people, a country, and a democracy in the middle of despotic countries.
Thanks for your ministry.
One complicating factor is Turkey being a NATO ally. It seems like the other NATO allies should step up to confront Turkey. Another complicating factor is all the US military personnel and hardware stationed in Turkey.
Yes, let us be 'careful' about our accusations . . .
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
('The Second Coming' W.B.Yeats)
“I am a political conservative who voted for Donald Trump and think he's doing a pretty good job as President.”
Wade Burleson
There’s no need to wonder. You, and every other majority white evangelical that voted Trump into office sanctioned cruelty.
Multiple wives. Infidelity. Racist history. Fraud. Continual lies. “Just grab them by the pussy.” Were all not deal breakers or clear enough warnings of what’s to come. There’s no need to wonder, you knew exactly what you voted for.
The world should come together in seriously condemning this barbaric aggression and help the Kurds!! These great people have been suffering a lot. And what Trump just did is reduce US values to a despicable state!!!! Shame!!
The President proudly signaled his distate for certain ethnic groups during and after his presidential campaign. He has created an immigration policy designed for maximum cruelty to a certain ethnic groups. He has categorically banned immigration from numerous countries in the Middle East (including those with large Kurdish populations), and is now trying to keep all refugees from coming to the US. He has a long history of double-crossing his friends and allies. He has shown a remarkable affinity toward dictators, and has openly mused about exerting similar dictatorial control here in the US.
Is it any surprise that he is suddenly turning on one of the only democratically-minded ethnic groups in the Middle East? No, what is a surprise is that it has taken this long for the President's backers to realize who he is.
Had Republicans wanted, they could have replaced this racist, genital-grabbing conman with a his solid conservative vice-president years ago. It's unlikely that Mike Pence would have been any less aggressive than Trump in carrying the conservative agenda than his boss has been--but he wouldn't have dragged the Republican party through the mud, and he probably wouldn't have lost his party 41 seats in Congress.
Democrats made the same mistake 20 years ago in defending Bill Clinton's boorishness. Had he been impeached, Al Gore would have become president, and as an incumbent, would likely have beaten Bush. Gore might have in turn lost to McCain in 2004, but a McCain presidency would have been tolerable even for Democrats, as was George H.W. Bush's. Similarly, the wife of an impeached president would likely not have been able to attain the presidential nomination 16 years later, so that the Democrats could have had a superior candidate in 2016. And in the same way, if things keep going the way they are, then in 2020 Democrats will likely nominate and win in with someone who is far more liberal than they would have done against, say, a President Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio.
The nation would eave been better off in 1999 if Clinton had been deposed, just like it was better off when Nixon fell. It will similarly be better off once Mr. Trump, for the first time in his life, starts to be held accountable for his actions. The president is a civil servant, not a king. He can and should be replaced when he commits a serious crime, and the US will greatly benefit once it stops acting as though its presidents were appointed by divine right.
Everyone,
The reason I made known I voted for Trump and think he’s doing a pretty good job with the economy and government de-regulation is because I want people who read this post to know I do not consider it POLITICAL in nature.
I’m writing for HUMANITARIAN reasons.
I don’t understand why the United States is THE NATION that helps people whose lives are devastated by a tsunami of nature, but we turn our backs on allies whose lives are being devastated by a tsunami created by a dictator.
I intentionally stay away from political writing so if you read this post as a political one, then you don’t understand the author’s intent. I write to save the Kurds from extinction.
"I write to save the Kurds from extinction."
thank you, WADE
I guess, like the Jews, the Kurds are a people of 'diaspora' and are a unique ethnic group. But they have been faithful allies to our troops, and now they suffer greatly. I fear we are going to see repercussions from the decision of abandoning them and that these repercussions will come in ways unforeseen.
I may disagree with you politically, but I am ever aware that you are whole-heartedly humane in the best Christian tradition. God Bless!
The President's decision to withdraw our troops so suddenly from the Middle East came as a surprise and it comes at a cost -- a humanitarian cost, as you've very well pointed out. I listened to him give his MSP rally last night and he explained his decision as a matter of sparing our military a protracted stay in an area where we'd already achieved the objective. "Give ourselves a win, America" was his cry. It makes me ask what our original objective was in the first place. This scenario reminds me of Vietnam, when our military stayed there to protect the Vietnamese from Communist incursion and takeover, only to withdraw and watch the nation fall to Communism after all.
Good, intellectual, historical dissertation. Thanks for the education.
And, a main reason for the POTUS actions in 3 words: Istanbul Trump Tower
Wade, in one sense, you're right. The Kurd issue is not a political issue, but a humanitarian issue.
After all, the Kurds are undeniably suffering, and the vast majority of both Republicans and Democrats think that supporting the Kurds is a good idea.
But in another sense, it IS a political issue, because there are only two ways to undo the recent change in US policy towards the Kurds:
1) For Donald Trump to change his mind
or 2) for him to no longer be president.
(There are other possibilities: for example, Congress could apply pressure until Trump changes his plan--but that's merely a variation on #1 above).
If you don't want option #2, how do you propose to make option #1 happen, particularly given this President's history of indifference to humanitarian issues?
I'm all for a non-political solution to this issue. But if a non-political solution cannot be found, then the only solution will be a political one.
After all, you were initially supportive of Paige Patterson's agenda, and with a few key exceptions, you still generally agree with his theological stances. Patterson' rape cover-up and the veniality shouldn't have been political issues--after all, Southern Baptists are almost universally opposed to rape and to graft, regardless of their theology.
But these became political issues when Patterson refused to repent and change his behavior. Patterson was removed through political means, because those were the only way to hold him to account. And when he left, he was replaced by a younger man with similar theology but without the baggage--and the SBC and SWBTS are better for it.
One of the reasons I read your blog is the bravery with which you have confronted by injustice, even when it is committed by powerful people in your own camp. And I applaud your courage in posting about the Kurds, even though it might make enemies of your politically conservative friends.
Thanks for listening,
Everette
I think those who watch FOX News exclusively are not getting the same information as the rest of us. Now that Shep Smith is leaving especially.
Is there any solid news source that can help these people that they might trust?
BBC News perhaps? I don't know.
Some way must be found to get information to them that is correct regarding Trump and his 'associates', as this is now not happening. And the 'spin'? Well, that is a concern as one wonders who is behind all of this at Fox News?
The main give-away with Trump was his initial bad-mouthing of NATO and our firm alliances in the West, and his 'embrace' of 'strong leaders' (ie. dictators). As long as Fox News viewers buy into this, I don't see that they can be recovered to comprehend what is really going on. I wish things were different, but there it is . . . good people are being led into error by some with an agenda that is less than wholesome. God have mercy.
GOOD NEWS
Just saw on the TV Show “Outnumbered” the latest news that Trump had the Pentagon release orders to stop Turkey’s ‘war’ on Kurds by sending 1,000 Army Troops, two Fighter Squadrons, and B-52 bombers to the area. Overall, about 300,000 will be involved. He wants Congress to provide funding.
P.S.
14,000 will be sent to the regain.
fake news
We have failed them on the past but is it not time to correct those mistakes rather than to assist in persecuting them further?
I have one problem with the article and that is that Al kaida not ISIS destroyed the Trade Center and all the hijackers were Saudi. Osama Bin Ladin was Saudi and Trump has no problem cozying up to them.
I have one problem with the article and that is that Al kaida not ISIS destroyed the Trade Center and all the hijackers were Saudi. Osama Bin Ladin was Saudi and Trump has no problem cozying up to them.
Anonymous,
How do you like this for your “fake news” ?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/11/world/middleeast/trump-saudi-arabia-iran-troops.html?action=click&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=Article®ion=Footer&contentCollection=At%20War
“Trump Orders Troops and Weapons to Saudi Arabia in Message of Deterrence to Iran.
Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper and Gen. Mark A. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, spoke to reporters on Friday at the Pentagon.
By Eric Schmitt and David E. Sanger
Oct. 11, 2019
WASHINGTON — The United States is sending about 3,000 additional troops to Saudi Arabia in the latest military response by the Trump administration after it accused Iran of attacks last month on Saudi oil facilities, the Pentagon said on Friday.
Pentagon release orders to stop Turkey’s ‘war’ on Kurds.”
Aquarian,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_September_11_attacks
“Two weeks after the September 11 attacks, the Federal Bureau of Investigation connected the hijackers to al-Qaeda, a global, decentralized terrorist network. In a number of videos, audio, interview and printed statements, senior members of al-Qaeda have also asserted responsibility for organizing the September 11 attacks. It is believed that Osama bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and Mohammed Atef were the ones who plotted the attacks after meeting together in 1999. It is also believed Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the one who planned the attacks and that Atef was the one who organized the hijackers.”
I see you’ve become a ‘blogger’ a month ago. What makes you think Trump is “cozying up” to anybody?
https://youtu.be/rXiSafSqXAY
https://www.lawfareblog.com/realnews-trump-et-laffaire-russe-resource-page
You have bad information. There are many Kurdish sects. The ones in Syria under discussion right now are the PKK. Kurdish Workers Party. They are Muslim Marxists, not that different from Said dictator we fought in Somalia in the 90’s. Their “help” is a one way street and will always be. You have believed misinformation and boy is it out there because the war mongers want us there. They are not satisfied with 18 years in Afghanistan and not much less in Iraq. The miss information out there about this situation is chilling and mostly coming from the MSM. If everyone is so upset that we are abandoning our allies (Which they aren’t and neither is Turkey) then Congress should debate this and declare war. What ever happened to that approach? Cowards.
. There was a time we romanticized the Taliban in the 80s, too, armed them, sent advisors, etc.
In addition, it’s one small (about 10 mile wide) area Turkey wants. Turkey and these Kurds have been at war with one another for centuries. And it would not surprise me one bit if the Kurds formed a faction with the Isis fighters they are holding. It’s Chinatown, Jake.
Look, you got Free Sayheed” wrong big time, too. You tend to romanticize things with a “Christian” twist and don’t do your homework.
https://www.marxist.com/turkey-attacks-northern-syria.htm
The problem is there are no good guys here and when people are binary fingers they get stuck making bad guys into good guys. Most of the reporting I have seen out there refers to the Kurds as if they are monolithic. Nothing is further from the truth. there are multiple factions spread across the ME. The reporting of them as monolithic is either on purpose or laziness.
History is important in the ME. That is not understood by a lot of Americans who are only too happy to erase and rewrite our history. Here is yet another credible point:
“Classified by the State Department as a terrorist organization, the PKK has been waging armed struggle against Turkey since 1984 at a cost of tens of thousands of lives, according to the Uppsala Conflict Data Program, a respected source on armed conflict.”
“The third misdeed is the most consequential: the Obama administration’s decision in 2016 to arm and train YPG (PKK) members and directly embed American special forces with them. Rather than work with Turkey, the U.S. chose to support the Syrian wing of the PKK, which the Turkish public holds responsible for decades of warfare and tens of thousands of deaths. The PKK represents a grave threat to the Turkish Republic, and Turks across the political spectrum loathe it. To dismiss Ankara’s objections to America’s arming of the YPG as mere anti-Kurdish bigotry is ignorant, akin to labeling the fight against al Qaeda as Islamophobia.”
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/10/syrian-complications.php
We would be wise to get out of there and not add another Afghanistan or Iraq to our unwinnable wars portfolio. Stop acting like the ME uses Western Enlightenment thinking. You will only find that sort of reason in Israel.
Hello Anonymous,
Once we are completely out of Syria, that leaves Putin in control of his puppet Assad.
Is this REALLY in our country's interests?
The abandonment of the Kurds is in the interest of Russia also. The phone call to Erdogan by Trump giving the green light to move on the Kurds was made on Putin's birthday.
Both Erdogan and Putin are very pleased with President Trump's cooperation. But again, I ask how is giving in to these two dictators in the interest of the United States now and long-term?
Do you anticipate a change in the way the United States is now governed by the removal of democracy and the 'balance of powers' and a capitulation to another form of government that is more in line with those governments run by the leaders that Trump admires? What do you see happening? What do Trump's followers want to happen? Fox News had a poll this week that claimed that 51% of our country wants him impeached and removed from office. But what kind of country do Trump's followers want if he remains and is re-elected?
Anonymous,
I agree the Kurds are not monolithic.
There are bad apples in every barrel.
My problem is asking the KURDS for help, promising support, and then reneging on our promise.
A country loses its greatness the moment it breaks it's word.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/13/politics/us-troops-syria-turkey/index.html
And, Anonymous,
I agree I have a bias toward the Kurds.
I love Turkey too! I just don't anyone should be purging anyone based upon ethnicity.
Donal Trump wants out of the Middle East so he is sending troops to Saudi Arabia.
He is getting us out of harm's way in Syria because turkey is moving in from the south to kill Kurds. Did I get this right?
CHRISTIANE,
You asked, “What kind of country do Trump's followers want if he remains and is re-elected?”
Judy’s favor TV program for news is “Outnumbered” where four women and one ‘invited man’ discuss news and politics. The group is a mixture of Democrats, Republicans, and In-dependents.
Today’s subjects were:
1.The tragic story where a Fort Worth White policeman killed a Black woman by shooting through the window of her house where she was watching TV.
2.Joe Biden’s son is to resign from Board of a Chinese Firm where he made $50 thousand a month.
3.Joe Biden is taking credit: “I’m the only reason there is Impeaching going on.”
4.There are 27,000 Mexican soldiers on our border. Trump said, “We thank the President of Mexico.”
5.Mexico blocked 2,000 migrants hours after they embarked on a journey to the United States.
Christiane, to answer your question, I hope Trump will continue to drain the “swamp” and make America great again.
"Do you anticipate a change in the way the United States is now governed by the removal of democracy and the 'balance of powers' and a capitulation to another form of government that is more in line with those governments run by the leaders that Trump admires?"
This is exactly why there are so many Trump supporters. We are terrified with the certain swing to socialism and communism that is being pushed passionately by those opposed to Trump.
Hello RB Kuter,
I don't think our American farmers who are recieving help during the trade wars with China are unhappy about 'socialism', no. I think they will support Trump' socialist solutions to the difficulties they are undergoing as a result of his trade war policies. What do you think about this?
https://mises.org/power-market/trumps-road-socialism
I don't know, Wade, just what is the motives and results of Trump's decision to back out of Syria and support of that segment of Kurds. I don't believe you can discern this, at least not at this point. In the few days since you wrote this post, much has changed. It is a VERY complex and complicated situation.
Seems that since pulling out US troops from the mix, those former Kurd supporters have gone over to the Syrian central government's side to gain protection from the Turkish troops invading Syria. That's a change. And since your post, I believe, Trump has made it clear that he does not support and is actually strongly opposed, to Turkey's invasion and intent to annex that northern portion of Syria along the Turkey border. Trump threatens to apply significant economic woes upon Turkey.
Trump's methods and way of thinking are not so simple as to be taken entirely from what is said on the surface. For instance, some say that he "likes" the N. Korean dictator and from that conclude that he supports what the rocket man is doing. That's ludicrous. Trump has shown that he is more open to seeing what are the possibilities of altering the decades-long stalemate with N. Korea that has led to its being close to having effective inter-continental ballistic missile capabilities.
Trump says things to indicate that he is willing to probe and explore possibilities for getting along in a manner that accommodates both sides and does speak in a civil manner to the party with whom he is going to deal. BUT when it becomes obvious that the other side is not serious about compromising or shifting their position, Trump backs off entirely and shows that he is serious about keeping America's best interest as the priority. He will not compromise that principle at all, unlike ALL former politicians.
Same with Syria and the Kurds. Yes, we supported their agenda given that it accommodated our eliminating a serious enemy. It served America's best interest AND that of that segment of Kurds. Our objective was achieved. We did not get involved to establish a Kurdish state within the northern Syrian border. Given the complexity and longevity of the hatred from one side to the other based upon ethnicities, for what purpose would the US leave troops in the midst of the fray all the while escalating the risk of international war? Would you want YOUR son to risk getting his head blown off for whatever those US troops were remaining there to accomplish, which apparently had NO US strategic interest of any weight?
I don't think so.
I feel for the soldiers who must abandon those Kurds who fought as allies. I can imagine it would be exactly what it seems to be: dishonorable
but it is not these American soldiers who dishonor our country, no. Not even the Pentagon had the 'heads-up' on Trump's impulsive gift to Putin and Erdogan, no.
Here's hoping that our troops left in Syria don't get caught in the middle. Here's hoping that they will at least defend themselves if they ARE attacked. The Russians are now moving into American bases in Syria that we have already abandoned.
I'm sure some rejoice at all of this, but I cannot. And none of the people I know are happy about this either.
RB Kuter,
It's difficult being President, no doubt. I'm arguing for defense of the Kurds on the basis of a human rights principle.
If we give our word to someone as a country, we should keep it. If we shouldn't involve ourselves in foreign nation building, then never send troops in the first place.
The reasons the Kurds turned to Syria is because they are facing a loss of their very existence. The lesser of two enemies in an existential war becomes your friend.
I had the opportunity to speak this week with a Turkish friend who is Turkey. He represents only his opinion, but it seems that there are some Turkish folks who do not like their nation's leader at all. He also indicates that he does not like Trump, but his assessment is slanted based upon his opinion that Trump is more concerned about America than other nations. Duh!
I believe that much of the international community is very angered and frustrated at the US finally having a leader who refuses to concede to their demands for money from the US at the expense of US interests. They have been on the "gravy train" for decades and all of a sudden, a conductor comes along that insists they must purchase their own ticket. We have been "co-dependents" supporting the continued addictive behavior of others in helping them maintain a dependency lifestyle. THAT withdrawal of destructive support is NEVER well received by the addicts.
All of that to say that, if Trump had maintained the presence of US troops in Syria or increased it, there would be no US interest accomplished and we would have likely ended up again being involved in a conflict with no successful end possible. BUT, the politicians and "politically correct" crowd would enjoy projecting how humanitarian it was.
Hello RB Kuter,
I do wish that Trump had cared more for the people of Puerto Rico following Hurricane Maria.
It was almost as though he didn't realize they were Americans.
I think something else is involved with his thinking than just isolationism, and I think that shows up in those he supports and those he has contempt for. Right now, our own American people in Puerto Rico wonder 'why'? They still don't understand why their countrymen and women didn't intervene to help them when they were crushed.
Right now, our own allies are confused. But the Putins and the Erdogans and the Kim Un Jongs of this world have been sent a message: America is not going to stand by its allies and I'm not sure that 'message' is one that is, in the end, a message that 'protects' us as a nation. I think many people share this worry. And they are patriots, as you are.
Christiane, are you serious? Farmers receive subsidies during the administration of every President since, well, probably George Washington.
Assisting segments of the economy during crisis is not socialism. Just ask President Obama regarding his bailout of auto companies during the recession. Always been there, always will be. Still, NOBODY openly pushed an open "socialist" agenda until Bernie and after seeing him gain more voter support than leftist-Hillary, now ALL Democratic Presidential candidates, and their supporters, have jumped on that train which is headed to devastation, celebrating and cheering and partying all the way to the end of that incomplete bridge that sends them, and us if they get power, into the deep, dark, wasteland chasm. Enjoy your ride but don't expect me to join in your celebration of misery!
"And none of the people I know are happy about this either"
Need to branch out and expand your circle of friends.
"I do wish that Trump had cared more for the people of Puerto Rico following Hurricane Maria.
It was almost as though he didn't realize they were Americans."
True. I still have not forgiven George Bush for bringing that hurricane to New Orleans either.
"If we give our word to someone as a country, we should keep it. If we shouldn't involve ourselves in foreign nation-building, then never send troops in the first place."
Sorry, Wade. If Trump ever said he was sending troops into Syria to build a nation for the Kurds then I have misspoken. My impression has been that the reason we had US troops in Syria was to eradicate Muslim terrorist factions that were in that area and the Kurds were there and had the common agenda of seeing them eliminated as well. That mission has been completed.
"I'm arguing for defense of the Kurds on the basis of a human rights principle."
That surely sounds good and Godly, like being compassionate for all of those illegals invading our borders. There are MANY oppressed peoples in the world including the Persians in Iran who are the majority and being persecuted by a 5% minority Islamic extremist regime. What about the millions in N. Korea? What is the answer for the President of the United States? What about the oppressed Palestinians? Maybe go to war with Israel and force them to give up their nation to the surrounding Muslims who overran that nation and held it for hundreds of years under the Ottoman Empire?
Open our borders for all of the oppressed and poor of all nations to come and live here, financed by Wade and Christiane, and Rex and RB? Invade Iran and N. Korea and overthrow the oppressive regimes with the loss of millions of US sons and daughters serving in the military?
A President must be compassionate and seek to use the power and affluence with which God has blessed our nation for the benefit of the entire world while at the same time recognizing that his priority should be to maintain the strength and well-being of the United States, otherwise we have no resources to help anyone, not even ourselves.
But the United States is one nation. Where are the Germans? The Brits? The French? The Egyptians? The S. Koreans? Japanese? Italians? Spanish? Ethiopians? Ecuadorians? Venezuelans? Saudi Arabians? Indonesians? Viet Namese?
True, we are the wealthiest and most powerful player, but the fact is, we have always served as a "global-Nannie" and the rest of the world has grown to expect us to step in and remedy the ailments originating from the evil, selfish, wicked, elements with which we will always have to contend. We can be a party-player, but not Mr. Fix It All for the world.
And, by the way, folks are adamant about our serving to remedy all of the evils in the world while we continue to murder 3 MILLION US babies EVERY year! Somehow, all of the other compassionate rhetoric ringings sounds like empty, chaotic, "clanging" in comparison. Kind of like Hitler murdering Jews while screaming how he is the savior of mother-Germany.
"Pull the log out of your own eye first."
For those who are arguing about the importance of supporting our allies, Turkey remains an official NATO ally.
This is the real, practical and ugly reality of the "Make America Great Again" doctrine. Such "us first" thinking such be eschewed by every American who believes in a Christ who commands us to put our selves last!
Here's the thing, Doug. God leads me, as a follower of Jesus Christ, to be benevolent and to sacrificially share of myself and my possessions, all of which come from God, for the benefit and well-being of those who are not as privileged to be born in my circumstances and blessings which have been conducive to my being more prosperous than they.
But I do not accept "Doug" deciding what I am to give and sacrifice while he may be deciding not to give and sacrifice at all. Or Doug may have an idea of using his resources and riches to contribute to financing the medical procedures for women to have abortions because they don't have medical insurance that covers it and, should Doug be in control, he will also confiscate "my" resources to finance his preferred agenda which directly contradicts those moral edicts that I believe come from God saying that there is NO justification for killing an infant.
Doug can choose to give away all of his income to help those he feels led to help, but then, who is going to help Doug? Me? His Mom and Dad? Grandmother? Neighbor? MAGA deplorable? This concept seems to be the more real, practical, ugly and frightening reality of the globalizing socialist to me.
Those deplorable "MAGA" degenerates have the same perspective. America has ALWAYS been more benevolent and giving than any nation on earth and is today. But America should have the ability and obligation to maintain its own well-being which enables it to be benevolent and generous to those who are in dire circumstance.
Our military men and women serve HONORABLY and would give their lives for this country.
They did not deserve this.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/15/politics/us-troops-syria-anger/index.html
Lions for lambs
In my opinion, the wisest, least partisan, and most thoughtful comments are those of "everette."
"Wade, in one sense, you're right. The Kurd issue is not a political issue, but a humanitarian issue.
"After all, the Kurds are undeniably suffering, and the vast majority of both Republicans and Democrats think that supporting the Kurds is a good idea.
"But in another sense, it IS a political issue, because there are only two ways to undo the recent change in US policy towards the Kurds:
1) For Donald Trump to change his mind
or 2) for him to no longer be president.
"(There are other possibilities: for example, Congress could apply pressure until Trump changes his plan--but that's merely a variation on #1 above).
"If you don't want option #2, how do you propose to make option #1 happen, particularly given this President's history of indifference to humanitarian issues?
"I'm all for a non-political solution to this issue. But if a non-political solution cannot be found, then the only solution will be a political one.
"After all, you were initially supportive of Paige Patterson's agenda, and with a few key exceptions, you still generally agree with his theological stances. Patterson' rape cover-up and the veniality shouldn't have been political issues--after all, Southern Baptists are almost universally opposed to rape and to graft, regardless of their theology.
"But these became political issues when Patterson refused to repent and change his behavior. Patterson was removed through political means, because those were the only way to hold him to account. And when he left, he was replaced by a younger man with similar theology but without the baggage--and the SBC and SWBTS are better for it.
"One of the reasons I read your blog is the bravery with which you have confronted by injustice, even when it is committed by powerful people in your own camp. And I applaud your courage in posting about the Kurds, even though it might make enemies of your politically conservative friends.
"Thanks for listening,
"Everette"
Thank you, everette
https://www.businessinsider.com/1000-us-troops-chaotic-demoralizing-retreat-syria-2019-10
Yeah, REALLY a believable News story from Christiane's link:
1. Source; "CNN". Hey, does that even give you a clue as to where this article is going?
Duh..
Quotes:
2. "A wide range of American military personnel and defense officials are expressing a
deep.."
What does "wide range" mean? Certainly not "majority", "large numbers of", or "most".
3. "SEVERAL US military and defense OFFICIALS.."
What does that mean? "3", "4"? What IS a "military and defense OFFICIAL"? The
guy cleaning the toilets at the Pentagon? Maybe the pacifist IT guy who works on the
computers?
4. "ONE US official said it is well known that some senior US military officials are
livid.."
WHO? "One"? "US official"? Is that the US Postal Service lady who puts mail in my
mailbox?"
5. "Another senior American defense official told CNN..."
What does "senior" mean? Over 60? "American defense official"?
6. "Another US military official involved in operations in Syria said he was "ashamed" of
his country's actions ...failed to defend its one-time ally in the fight against ISIS."
"WHO said?" The US DID defend its ally IN THE FIGHT AGAINST ISIS!. THAT was our
military objective and we fulfilled our role with those fighting by our side in that mission.
7. "How do we expect anyone to partner with us now?" ONE US defense official told CNN."
(Totally not identified or even verified as to his/her existence)
8."Trump ordered a small contingent of about 50 US troops to be pulled back.."/"The Trump
administration belatedly sought to halt the Turkish advance Monday"
WHAT?!! What in the world is CNN, Christiane, and Wade even screaming about?
I'm disappointed in Trump for bending to the political brow-beating he got for taking bold action to propose a withdrawal that served the interest of our troops and national strategic interests. WHY would he renig? What is Trump's explanation for NOT pulling our young military men and women out of a ridiculous, no-win, situation? They deserve better!
What a ridiculous report trying to be passed off as genuine journalism. The "National Enquirer's" reports on space aliens from other planets invading Earth would be more believable! No sources identified. No authentication. Fairy tale-credibility. Entirely politically conceived and implemented as another means to campaign against the sitting President. Do you really believe that we would be hearing the same outrage if Barak, Hillary, Bernie, Elizabeth were in Office?
A CNN report like this is like quoting from the Book of Mormon. Really, do intelligent, objective, truth-seeking individuals REALLY take this kind of totally unsupported, perhaps fabricated (Who would know?) editorial serious? Why? Sure undermines the credibility on other statements made knowing that this is the caliber of the source of information forming your position in issues.
Our military men and women DO serve honorably and they DO deserve to have a Commander in Chief who WATCHES THEIR BACKS and does not cower to fake news media reports and rush to put them in harms' way due to the political winds being blown by politicians and fake news media who have NO immediate family members or personal security at stake.
What is your proposal? Send in thousands of more US troops? Go to war directly with the nation of Syria and force its Russian and Chinese allies to go to war directly with the US? See thousands of American military personnel slaughtered on the battlefield for some reason totally outside US interests with no identifiable objective being involved?
Yeah, now Trump would REALLY be celebrated by CNN and its avid followers for his getting us into a Third World War over that!
Alaskan in Texas,
I agree with your sentiments about Everette.
Thanks you both.
RB Kuter,
Thanks for your comments. I (and many US special forces stationed in Syria) don't agree with your assessments, but appreciate your comments.
Hi Doug,
It sounds like you are advocating the US being a theocracy beholden to a particular religious expression. Church and state don't make good partners.
Thanks for that, Wade.
RB Kuter,
Enjoyed your comments VERY much. You would make an excellent ‘guest’ on the TV show, “Outnumbered”. (Judy’s favorite)
Dear friends,
I can see we all are receiving different sources of information, but I can testify to one thing:
the military are honorable, and they would NEVER have abandoned an ally willingly.
When I saw 'lions for lambs', I thought 'that's it' . . . our soldiers are lions and they are being led by a weak dishonorable commander who never himself would fight even for his own country or allow his children to sign up for military service.
so 'lions for lambs' is a proper description of what happened to our soldiers, yes, as it was their unsullied honor that a cowardly leader attempted to betray along with our allies,
but he cannot touch our soldiers' honor, no. It is intact.
Donald Trump's latest on the Kurds:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/trump-kurds-angels-dubs-pkk-worse-isil-191017081803445.html
All for the end of our people coming home in body bags due to endless regime change wars.
Stay strong President Trump.
Not an issue what you feel they "deserve".
Is an issue of what they are ordered to do.
IMO they deserve to be safely removed from further exposure to endless regime change wars in this area of the world.
What right does Bone Spurs have to criticize General Mathis
or
ANYONE who served?
The coward Trump couldn't even answer for allowing sufficient time for American troops to withdraw properly from Syria when he gave the 'green light' to Erdogan to attack the Kurds.
Trump didn't even think about our own troops and what they had to do to get ready to leave.
He consulted with no one, but delivered Syria over to PUTIN and Erdogan and did this on the day of Putin's birthday. You had better believe that the Russians made much of this.
Strong? Trump?
With Trump, all roads lead to PUTIN. WHY?
Trump has pandered to Putin and has insulted the faithful allies of our nation. Why?
I honestly wonder about any serving military who think that walking out on our allies was in anyway 'American' by any standard;
and in leaving our allies to be slaughtered, that puts our country on a new low. What does MAGA really stand for, 'cause our country is worse off than it was two weeks ago and all because of one man that Russia supported in the '16 election. When Trump was elected, the Russians said 'Washington is ours'. Well, now Syria belongs to Russia also.
What's next?
CHRISTIANE,
Old friend, I won’t repeat what you just said. Have you heard that Vice President Pence went to Turkey trying to stop their aggression?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/vice-president-mike-pence-seeks-syria-ceasefire-turkey/story?id=66345538
“Pence called the agreement a ceasefire, although Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said it was a "pause in Turkey's operation" and "not a ceasefire."
"Our team is already working with YPG personnel in the safe zone for an orderly withdrawal outside the 20-mile mark and we're going to go forward together to bring peace and security to this region, I'm very confident of that," Pence told reporters during a press conference.”
Christine, I hope you slow down on drinking ‘Democrat Kool-Aid’. :)
Hello out there, REX RAY
I have a new 'conspiracy theory' set of info for you to 'connect the dots', here goes:
Trump - Rudy Giuliani - Lev Parnas - Igor Fruman - Dmitry Firtash - Vladimir Putin
Lev Parnas is an interesting criminal. And Firtash is an extremely wealthy oligarch. So if you can investigate the connections between these men, I think you would enjoy the process and understand a bit better why I am so concerned. So good luck, if you care to try.
If not, okay by me. Just offering a bit of 'conspiracy theory' fun to brighten your day as I know you enjoy it :)
TRUMP IS SMART. ENDLESS WARS. WAR WITH TURKEY IS NOT WISE. US NO MORE WILL BE PROXY OF ISRAEL.
Trump serves Putin's interests and puts our own national security at risk by taking Putin's point of view seriously because Putin does NOT have our country's interest at heart . . .quite the opposite.
Trump gets played.
Pelosi said to Trump 'all your roads lead to Putin' and she is right.
At best Trump is a 'useful fool', and I don't want to go into what I think might be the case as it is too dark.
CHRISTIANE,
How about this for a conspiracy theory? Dallas let Trump have a rally and four days later God hits them with a TORNADO!
Hey REX RAY,
no way to blame God . . . all the extreme weather changes are owning up to man-made use of fossil fuels which are driving GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE and we will keep seeing more and more extreme weather to come, sadly
the 'warming' of the Earth and the 'melting' of the ice continues and is accelerating . .
I think our sad failure to properly steward this beautiful Earth has led to some enormous difficulties for our young people in future.
I think we can let God off the hook for this tornado. Yep.
Have you had an opportunity to widen your 'sources' of information? I hope so. From time to time, I will include some FYI source to help out, but only if people don't mind.
I'm not into 'conspiracy theories' like the 'deep state' stuff, or the ones that let Putin off the hook, no. But 'shadow diplomacy' does appear to be alive and well in Trumpland, with Donald and Rudy and the 'loyalists' hobnobbing with Russians and with oligarchs who have ties to the Russian mafia. To what end? It doesn't look good to me, no. So it's like I want to give the heads-up to people I care about who don't get good info from sources that protect DT. I'm trying to help, but I also know that many good people are counting on Trump and they are NOT getting the right information through Fox News, with the exception of Chris Wallace, who will try to be straight with the public. (sigh)
How are you? How are the leg treatments going? Please cooperate with Judy and your doctors and don't give up.
My little pup was euthanized yesterday (Tuesday) and I am missing him much. But the vet said he was beginning to suffer and it was time, and we didn't want him to suffer, no. So the vet helped the little dog and gave a sedative and our Noah yawned and put his head down and went to sleep. He passed peacefully with no pain, thank God. He asked little and gave much, and we loved him. We loved him.
You take care. All shall be well in the Kingdom of Our Lord. Fear not. :)
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