From the Greek word baptizo which means "to immerse or completely dip."
When a person hears the English word "baptism" (a word only transliterated - not translated - from the Greek word baptizo), the mind will typically\ think "water."
Few know that baptizo simply means "to immerse" but the substance into what one is immersed must be defined by the context of the word's usage.
For example, you can be immersed (baptized) into work. You can be immersed (baptized) into school. You can be immersed (baptized) into video games. You can be immersed (baptized) into sports. You can be... well, you get the idea.
Few know that baptizo simply means "to immerse" but the substance into what one is immersed must be defined by the context of the word's usage.
For example, you can be immersed (baptized) into work. You can be immersed (baptized) into school. You can be immersed (baptized) into video games. You can be immersed (baptized) into sports. You can be... well, you get the idea.
It's amazing how many Jesus followers fall out of fellowship over water baptisms in the church.
Some baptize infants of believing parents into the church. Some baptize believing parents and all their children (regardless of belief) at the same time into the church. Some baptize only believing persons into the church.
Astonishingly, literal wars have been fought among "Christians" over disagreements on water baptisms.
How can Scripture teach "there is one body and one Spirit...one Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:4-5) when there seem to be almost as many different kinds of baptisms as there are different religious denominations?
Answer: The "one baptism" referenced in Ephesians 4:4-5 is "the one" baptism experienced by every true believer of Jesus, and it occurs when God the Father baptizes the believer "into" the Holy Spirit.
I believe the very nature of New Testament Christian baptism is mostly misunderstood by Christians
New Covenant baptism is God immersing Christ believers "into" the Holy Spirit upon them hearing and believing the proclamation of God's good grace through Jesus Christ.
19th-century New Testament Greek scholar James W. Dale believed and taught that Christian baptism is "into" the Spirit, and not water. Dr. Dale taught this in his superb books on baptism which were based on the Greek New Testament text.
Greek scholars Phillip Schaff (History of the Christian Church), A.H. Strong (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance), and Joseph Henry Thayer (Thayer's Greek Lexicon) all praised James W. Dale's seminal works on baptism.
As a reminder, here is the inspired text telling us what Jesus taught about Christian baptism.
“All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” (Matthew 28:18,19)Here's what Dr. James Dale said about what Jesus taught in Matthew 28:18-19:
"The language of inspiration announces a real baptism as distinctly as can be done by the use of words; (but) there is absolutely no evidence of a ritual baptism (of water) in connection with Jesus' words, either in this passage or elsewhere in the Scripture.”
This wonderful baptism (Matthew 28:18-19) into the Trinity... has no direct or designed relation to a ritual baptism of water.
Baptism was, however, very soon after the times of the Apostles, connected with the administration of the Christian rite. It is admitted, both by ancient and modern expositors, that the practice of the Church is not the practice of the Apostles.
The only question, therefore, on the merits of the case, is this question: Have the Apostles, or has the Church, since the third century, more correctly interpreted the Great Commission?”Dr. Dale's says Matthew 28:18-19, commonly called the Great Commission, teaches disciples of Jesus that the baptism required is God's baptism of them into the Holy Spirit.
5 Reasons that New Testament Christian Baptism Is Into the Spirit, Not Water
1. Baptism of water and baptism of the Spirit are contrasted in the New Testament.
Water baptism was a Jewish ritual immersion into water representing repentance toward God. Baptism into the Spirit is something that Jesus' work accomplished for those who trust Him.
And (John) preached, saying, "There comes one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. I indeed have baptized you with water: but He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit...” (Mark 1:7-8)
Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that He said, John indeed baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit—not many days hence. (Acts 11:16)
John's baptism of water for repentance was a call to God's Old Covenant Jewish people to repent and turn back toward God. Just like other Old Testament shadows came to an end as the eternal age of grace dawned (e.g. The New Covenant), so Old Covenant water purification immersions foreshadowed the eternal reality of Jesus follower's from every nation being baptized by God the Father into the Holy Spirit at the moment faith in Christ occurs.
2. God the Father immersing Christ's disciples into the Spirit is required before the Great Commission begins.
Waiting for what?
They were to wait for God the Father to baptize them into the Holy Spirit.
"Jesus gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:4).The New Covenant Church began at Pentecost.
For 40 years after Pentecost, the Gospel went "to the Jews first." Why "Jews" first? Because the New Testament prophets announced to them the end of the Old Covenant with Israel and the inauguration of the New Covenant to the world (Hebrews 8:13), an Old Covenant that officially and finally came to an end in AD 70 at the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
3. Our baptism into the Holy Spirit at the time of faith in Christ is how we become disciples.
But it is biblical baptism into the Holy Spirit is the qualifier for making more disciples of Jesus and His Kingdom.
Jesus commissioned His disciples to go into the world to make disciples of Him through teaching and proclaiming everything they learned from Him, but to only go after being baptized at Pentecost with the Spirit.
Then, the disciples were to...
It is unfortunate that our English Bible does in Matthew 28:19 give us the force of ‘eis.’ (translated "in"). It should be 'into' as in Galatians3:27.
The Greek preposition eis means“into." The Greek word en, means “in." The use of eis in Matthew 28:19 means that this baptism is actually the placement of the repentant believer “INTO the person of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”
This is the only baptism that matters.
The disciples of Jesus Christ commanded to do only one thing—“disciple all nations.”
“Baptizing them” stands as an adverbial phrase modifying the words "make disciples."
In other words, the making of disciples of Jesus Christ by the messengers of those things Christ taught will result in the “baptism” of true believers in the message.
But baptism into what?
Answer: The Holy Spirit
Those who go to fulfill the Great Commission of making disciples of Christ from all nations through preaching and teaching the Good News will find the Father“baptizing believers (into the Spirit), saving believers from the punishment of their sins, changing the heart of believers from hearts of stone (hard hearts) to hearts of flesh (soft hearts), and converting the minds of believers."
Salvation is a work of God, including the baptism of the Holy Spirit, for He is the direct administrator of the Spirit's baptism.
"Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” (Matthew 28:19).Henry Alford in his Critical Greek New Testament and ExegeticalCommentary writes:
It is unfortunate that our English Bible does in Matthew 28:19 give us the force of ‘eis.’ (translated "in"). It should be 'into' as in Galatians3:27.
The Greek preposition eis means“into." The Greek word en, means “in." The use of eis in Matthew 28:19 means that this baptism is actually the placement of the repentant believer “INTO the person of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”
This is the only baptism that matters.
4. As we teach and preach what Christ said and did, the Father immerses new believers into the Spirit.
"All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” (Matthew 28:18,19)It has been pointed out by many biblical scholars that the above passage from Matthew does not say the disciples directly do the baptizing.
The disciples of Jesus Christ commanded to do only one thing—“disciple all nations.”
“Baptizing them” stands as an adverbial phrase modifying the words "make disciples."
In other words, the making of disciples of Jesus Christ by the messengers of those things Christ taught will result in the “baptism” of true believers in the message.
But baptism into what?
Answer: The Holy Spirit
Those who go to fulfill the Great Commission of making disciples of Christ from all nations through preaching and teaching the Good News will find the Father“baptizing believers (into the Spirit), saving believers from the punishment of their sins, changing the heart of believers from hearts of stone (hard hearts) to hearts of flesh (soft hearts), and converting the minds of believers."
Salvation is a work of God, including the baptism of the Holy Spirit, for He is the direct administrator of the Spirit's baptism.
Those who share the gospel (men and women) indirectly administer the baptism of the Spirit through their proclamation of the gospel which is “power of God to salvation” (Romans 1:16).
But God baptizes believers in Christ into the Spirit.
In John 14, Christ comforts His early disciples by promising that the Holy Spirit would come to take up His residence within them while they remained on earth to fulfill Christ's Commission of making new disciples.
Only God the Father baptizes us into the Spirit.
Our job as disciples of Christ is to proclaim Christ and what He's done to other sinners.
Christ gave all believers “the Promise of the Spirit” in John 14:26 and this promise is the equivalent to “the baptism of the Holy Spirit” in Acts 1:4-5.
It is through the Father's baptism of us into the Holy Spirit that the very Life of God takes up residence our souls.
But God baptizes believers in Christ into the Spirit.
In John 14, Christ comforts His early disciples by promising that the Holy Spirit would come to take up His residence within them while they remained on earth to fulfill Christ's Commission of making new disciples.
Only God the Father baptizes us into the Spirit.
Our job as disciples of Christ is to proclaim Christ and what He's done to other sinners.
Christ gave all believers “the Promise of the Spirit” in John 14:26 and this promise is the equivalent to “the baptism of the Holy Spirit” in Acts 1:4-5.
It is through the Father's baptism of us into the Holy Spirit that the very Life of God takes up residence our souls.
“...the Comforter (or) the Spirit...will abide with you, I (Christ) will come to you...and my Father will love him, and We will come unto you...” (see John 14).Our immersion“into Christ” via faith in Christ (Gal. 3:27-28) and “into one body” via that same faith (I Cor. 12:13) are identical to and simultaneous with God's “baptism of us the Holy Spirit" (Mark 1:7-8).
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16).
This baptism in Mark 16:16 is the believer's into the Holy Spirit as the life of God begins to indwell the soul of that believer.
Read Acts 10:43-44 and Acts 11:16.
5. The baptism of Cornelius is the transition from Old Covenant water baptism to New Covenant Spirit baptism.
"All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’Peter would later say that “hearts” of the Gentiles who heard his message (Acts 10) had been “purified” from sin “by faith” (Acts 15:8-9). The baptism of the Holy Spirit brings evidence of the Spirit's indwelling presence:
"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited,provoking and envying each other" (Galatians 5:19-26)
Some might object, "But didn't Peter later command these Gentile believers to be baptized in water?"
Yes, but allow Dr. Jack Langford to explain why Peter, the Apostle to the Jews, commanded water baptism, and Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, did not.
"Peter's command for water baptism was only the temporary continuation of John’s baptism which, from the beginning of its inception, was also performed upon Roman soldiers who desired to identify with the Messianic hopes of Israel (see Luke 3:12-14 and the Gentiles coming to John the Baptist for water baptism). This (water baptism) is its purpose for Cornelius and his household. They are merely ritually purified unto Israel’s Messianic Kingdom hope. They were saved under Peter’s ministry, who was an Apostle to the Jewish people (Gal. 2:7-8), and still anticipating their national hope (editor's note: a hope which disappeared in AD 70).
Between Acts 10 and Acts 15 many thousands of Gentiles were saved under the ministry of Paul, who is called—“The Apostle to the Gentiles (nations).” At the conference of the Church in Acts 15 it is clearly decided, by Paul’s distinctive revelations (Gal. 2:2) and strong determination (Gal.2:5), that the Law with its “meats and drinks and variety of baptisms” was not to be imposed upon the Gentile converts—see Acts 15:5, 19, 24, 28; 21:25 & Hebrews 9:10. This included John’s water baptism, which was the last act of righteous purity under the Law system—see Matt. 3:15. The Jewish believers would continue to observe the Law until the close of the book of Acts (Acts 21:20-26 & Heb. 8:13).
According to the judgment by the Spirit led counsel in Jerusalem, the Gentiles were totally free from the Jewish ritual Law system. All the Law’s “meats and drinks and variety of baptisms” (Heb. 9:10) were not to be imposed upon the Gentiles—Acts 15:24-29. As the national Kingdom hopes of Israel were gradually diminished, then this water baptism would cease as well. The book of Acts is the history of the transition out of Judaism into pure Christianity. As new revelation progressively unfolds, then the ceremonial and ritualistic Law system will fade away until it “vanishes” altogether (Heb. 8:13).In New Covenant global Christianity, the one baptism of the New Testament is God the Father immersing believers in Jesus Christ into the Holy Spirit, thereby receiving the power of God to make other disciples.
Application:
As we make application of this "one" baptism for the New Covenant, an immersion into God's Person and character, this baptism of the Holy Spirit is directly administered through God's power and is indirectly administered by His messengers through their proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Every person who places their trust in Christ receives this baptism of the Spirit.
So...
1. The important baptism in your life is Spirit baptism for that is the "one baptism" of the New Testament.
2. Show concern for those church members without the "fruits of the Spirit" even though they've experienced water baptism, for the former is the entrance into the eternal Kingdom of Christ, and the latter is only entrancing the institutional church.
3. Water baptism can be a wonderful testimony of conversion, but the mode may represent different aspects of the work of the Trinity:
4. Listen to the testimony of one who has experienced the water ritual but as you think about fellowship, remember "One faith (in Christ); one baptism, (in the Spirit), one LORD (over all believers)."
It was this principle that drove John Bunyan to "open communion" and to include into full fellowship and membership at the Baptist church he pastored professing Christians who had experienced different modes of baptism (immersion, pouring, sprinkling, etc.)
5. Nothing wrong with an institutional church requiring a certain kind of baptism, but heaven itself requires Spirit baptism. Therefore, when we get to heaven there will be no separate rooms partitioned by different water rituals.
1. The important baptism in your life is Spirit baptism for that is the "one baptism" of the New Testament.
2. Show concern for those church members without the "fruits of the Spirit" even though they've experienced water baptism, for the former is the entrance into the eternal Kingdom of Christ, and the latter is only entrancing the institutional church.
3. Water baptism can be a wonderful testimony of conversion, but the mode may represent different aspects of the work of the Trinity:
a. Pouring water over one's head can represent the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.Disagreeing over "modes" of baptism is a waste of Kingdom time in our age. Cooperate with all who've been baptized in the Spirit through their faith in Christ and evidence of God's presence within them.
b. Immersion into the water can represent the "death, burial, and resurrection" of Christ the Son..
c. Sprinkling water on to the head can represent hope in God the Father bringing covenant grace.
4. Listen to the testimony of one who has experienced the water ritual but as you think about fellowship, remember "One faith (in Christ); one baptism, (in the Spirit), one LORD (over all believers)."
It was this principle that drove John Bunyan to "open communion" and to include into full fellowship and membership at the Baptist church he pastored professing Christians who had experienced different modes of baptism (immersion, pouring, sprinkling, etc.)
5. Nothing wrong with an institutional church requiring a certain kind of baptism, but heaven itself requires Spirit baptism. Therefore, when we get to heaven there will be no separate rooms partitioned by different water rituals.
There is only one eternal Church and all who enter there
must be baptized in the Spirit of the Living God.
must be baptized in the Spirit of the Living God.
29 comments:
As an ex-Methodist and ex-Presbyterian (three different Presbyterian denoms, BTW) it has always seemed simple to me. There is one Lord, one faith, and ONE baptism. and 1 Corinthians 12:13 says we are all baptized into one body by the Holy Spirit.
Now that "body" cannot be the local church, as we don't all belong to the same local church. Hence, it must be the ekklesia ... the Body of Christ.
Incidentally, when I was a Presbyterian, I was taught that the sprinkling on the head symbolized the coming of the Holy Spirit, descending and alighting on our heads. That seems as reasonable as the symbolism used by we Baptists.
" with mercy shall I encircle them that hope on the Lord "
(from Psalm 31)
‘Something of the Holy’ comes through sacred Scripture that points people towards God in a ‘culture-free’ way that is more tied in with our very humanity itself, since the event of the Incarnation.
So yes, what has happened with ‘the Bible’ and ‘culture’ and human interpretation has been horrific in some cases:
-the ‘you have to obey authority regardless’ interpretation ‘because it’s God’s Will’
-the ‘wife will submit ‘graciously’ to her husband’ because the Bible Says . . . and all the abuse that follows
-the Bible Says slavery is allowed
-the Bible Says . . . . . . . when really, all we have is that prejudiced culturally-infected slant of a reader with an agenda more suited to satan than to Christ
But still, I do believe that there is something of the ‘Holy’, the ‘Sacred’, in the Scriptures which comes through the millenia with such force that it can affect an individual and re-direct their life towards the better Way;
and that when this happens, it may be like that time when a broken man in a hotel room picks up a Gideon Bible and opens it and WHAT he reads . . . .it is as though Our Lord touches him forcefully as in the way Our Lord encountered Saul on the road to Damascus . .
. . an unearthly Force that transcends time and place and space and culture and arrives at that place within a drowning human being . . . where God reaches down and pulls them out of the deep and they live and they KNOW something just happened to them for which there is no earthly explanation . . . and the EXPERIENCE is real to them and stays ‘with them’ and they are no longer who they were before the encounter
All those running around saying ‘the Bible says’ who have agendas and political plans are NOT what I’m talking about here:
I’m talking about how God can use the sacred Word to penetrate the human heart when it is broken and heal it in a sacramental experience of ‘the Holy’ . . . . there are people who witness to having had these powerful encounters and I believe them.
That phrase ‘born again’ is beautiful,
I see it in these two connected images:
“Deep is calling on Deep in the roar of waters;
Your torrents and waves have swept over me”
(Psalm 42)
and
” The LORD reached down from above and took hold of me;
He pulled me out of the deep waters. ”
(Psalm 18:16)
Thanks, Wade, for this eye-opening information.
Indeed, as followers of Jesus, we are to
1-submit to being completely immersed in the Holy Spirit, our one baptism, Evangelism.
2-walk in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5) but we live the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self-control, our Discipleship.
3-Rom 12, 1 Cor 12, Eph 4: Our Fellowship is realized as we share the 18 supernatural gifts endowed on us by the Holy Spirit for the benefit of the Church:
prophecy
service/helps
teaching
exhortation
giving
leadership/administration
mercy
wisdom
knowledge
faith
healing
miracles
discernment
languages
interpretation
apostles
evangelists
pastors.
Wade,
Well, old friend, I feel like the guy who said, “I’m not arguing with you, I’m just explaining why you’re wrong.”
You said God baptizes Christians into the Holy Spirit.
I believe we’ve received the Holy Spirit BEFORE we’re baptized.
I think you miss quoted the Great Commission in Matthew 28:18-19: “…baptizing them INTO the name of the Father…”
Bible states: “…baptizing them IN the name of the Father…”
I believe you’re right in saying, “Immersion into the water can represent the “death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.”
Rex,
You illustrate my post.
You think "baptism" is water, but it maans immerse.
Of course you "received" the Holy Spirit before baptism (water baptism). That's the way Baptists do it.
I'm saying that Matthew 28:18-19 is speaking of disciples "TEACHING" and the adverbial phrase "baptizing (immersing) new disciples INTO the Father, Son, and Spirit" is a synonym for "receiving the Holy Spirit." The former men do; the latter God does.
Water baptism is a religious ritual.
Spirit baptism is salvation.
Also, Rex - the "misquoting" of Matthew 28:18-19 is from the great New Testament scholars referred to in the post - not me. :)
They say eis (used in Matthew 28:18-19) is ALWAYS translated INTO and ein is "in" (not used in that text.
And, of course, I know I could be wrong. No problem with admitting that! :)
What I do believe is that nobody unimmersed in the Spirit (with the fruits to show as in the fruits of the Spirit) will enter the Kingdom of God.
Great article Wade. But in the texts where Spirit baptism is explicitly mentioned it is Jesus, not the Father, who baptizes us in the Holy Spirit. See Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:23. Blessings!
Wade,
I think I’ve found where these ‘great scholars’ went wrong with the word “into”.
First, have you read how many years spent and the huge number of scholars that took part in writing the New Living Translation?
The NLT is NOT bound by ‘words’, but by the meaning behind the words. (Which is more important, ‘words’ or the ‘meaning of the words’?)
You post states:
“Henry Alford in his Critical Greek New Testament and Exegetical; Commentary writes: “It is unfortunate that our English Bible does in Matthew 28:19 give us the force of ‘eis.’ (translated “in”). It should be ‘into’ as in Galatians 3:27.”
All translations (except the NLT) of Galatians 3:27 agree with the King James that states: “For as many of you as have been baptized INTO Christ have put on Christ.”
NLT states: “All who have been UNITED with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes.”
Wade, I believe Christians are united with Jesus and not put into him.
They say our minds can dream a long dream in a few seconds.
Just woke myself up from a nap, saying aloud, “I thought he got the boot a long time ago.” Then, I saw I was in the bedroom. My dream was seeing the SBC give a standing ovation to Paige Patterson. :)
Who is this 'Jesus'? If He is 'God' (the Second Person of the Holy Trinity), then in Him, 'we live and move and have our being'
About 'Jesus', the Kyrios, the Lord of Creation
'in Whom we live and move and have our being'
this:
"16 For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 And He is the Head of the Body, the Church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence " (from Colossians 1)
Below is the image of Jesus Christ Pantokrator, Who is called 'the Almighty' in Rev 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,”
says the Lord God, “Who is, and Who was, and Who is to come, the Almighty.”
https://mwerickson.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/image-2-jesus-pantocrator.jpg?w=809
I do get different viewpoints of 'Who Christ Is' from evangelical people. So I welcome understanding of their own perspectives and I am glad people share those beliefs with me.
The article is timed well for me, as I've been having a discussion with someone aligned with a hyper/ultra-dispensationalist org that teaches strongly against any water baptism and against the Great Commission as relevant to modern believers, claiming that Jesus' message there was for Peter and the other apostles present.
One of the points I commented on as relevant related to the baptism of the jailer in Philippi near the end of Acts 16, as well as the relevance of Paul's treatment of circumcision over the course of the this transitional time:
Paul drew the line at Titus, a full Greek/Gentile being circumcised. What would be his reason for purposefully integrating water baptism into the repentance and profession of faith of a Gentile jailer, especially post-Acts 15 and the clear direction of the Holy Spirit about unnecessary burdens related to Gentiles like Titus and the jailer?
This question is especially apt when a one-time physical ceremony like circumcision was seen as a matter of salvation by some (Acts 15:1). Note that in the case of the Galatians, Paul gave this stark warning. "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing" (Gal. 3:2) And why? "For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law" (Gal. 3:3). Baptism was evidently not the salvation stumbling block there that circumcision was there and elsewhere, given the much greater focus on the latter.
In contrast, circumcision isn't addressed in the stark if/then warning in the first letter to the Corinthians, but as a matter of indifference compared with keeping God's commandments (1 Cor. 7:18-19). However, baptism is an immediate focus because of the divisions that were forming according to who baptized and preached to a particular group. Paul appeared sufficiently unconcerned about the act that he didn't even fully recall who he had baptized (1 Cor. 1:16).
Tellingly, not a word is said by Paul discouraging baptism, as he had repeatedly about circumcision, despite this perfect opportunity. Rather, there is evidence of it happening in his ministry to Jews and Gentiles post-Jerusalem Council, when that body including all the apostles appeared to be on the same page as far as the Gentiles being joint-heirs, of the same body and recipients of the blessings according to the promise (cf. Eph. 3:6, Gal. 3:29) and saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same manner (cf. Acts 15:11).
There's another aspect of Baptism by immersion that I've never heard before, but I think is valid.
As typically done, one gets into the baptistery and places himself under the control of the baptizer. The baptizer then lowers the person into the water, backwards in a position from which it would be difficult for the one being baptized to remove himself from. In a very real sense, he's placing his own life in the hands of someone else.
Now: I've always heard that baptism signifies death, burial and resurrection. But perhaps .. and even more convincing to me ... is what we do when we really take Jesus as our Lord. We are putting ourselves into His arms, in a position from which we cannot, ourselves, recover.
That seems to be real pistis faith
Hello Bob Cleveland,
I loved your comment, especially this line:
"We are putting ourselves into His arms, in a position from which we cannot, ourselves, recover."
In your sentence, we are 'choosing' to place ourselves in Christ's keeping.
But I was thinking that even before that 'choice' (commitment, 'bending of the knee' to the Kyrios);
that all of Creation is already dependent upon its Creator God, yet we are aware of this only partially, if at all. (?)
I look at these verses from Colossians chapter 1, when I think about being in God's keeping:
"15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. . "
and this from Job 12:
"8 Or speak to the earth, and it will teach you; let the fish of the sea inform you. 9
Which of all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this? 10 The life of every living thing is in His hand, as well as the breath of all mankind."
I often think of 'faith' as a kind of 'trust' in God that is capable of bringing His peace to the heart, and I never realized the intensity of this peace until I experience profound grief.
BOB, your sentence in my understanding implies 'trust' in giving oneself over to Christ willingly.
And my goodness, when I thought I could not bear the intensity of grief, I reached out to God and was given 'the peace of Christ' and I can witness now from my own experience that this comforting is real. My response was and is to be profoundly grateful.
Hello REX RAY,
you wrote: " My dream was seeing the SBC give a standing ovation to Paige Patterson "
Goodness, that wasn't a dream, it was a NIGHT MARE !!!
BTW, The nuns are at it again and I am SO proud of them!
Take a look:
https://youtu.be/oolQ4h2mLg0
(if you don't have audio, they are singing 'Amazing Grace' as they are being taken away in handcuffs)
JDV,
Excellent comment!
I believe baptism (by immersion) is a wonderful opportunity to publicly profess Christ, proclaiming to family and friends your belief that He died, was buried, and rose again. I think, though, you would agree that water baptism is "unncessary" for salvation - but the Spirt's baptism is 100% necessary.
Regardless, thanks for your excellent comment.
Bob and Christiane and Rex,
As always - superb comments and dialogue.
CHRISTIANE,
“Nightmare” is right! That’s funny!
Judy’s son, Jim Abbott, and his wife, Lorie, are visiting us. He works for Walt Disney, a piano player, and produced the play “Wicked”.
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=h9EyXaGzGIfEsAXvuY-ADg&q=wicked+broadway+produced+by+jim+abbott&oq=%E2%80%9CWicked%E2%80%9D%2C+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.35i39l2j0j0i67j0l2j0i67j0i131j0i67j0.6842.6842..14137...0.0..0.5426.7839.9-2......0....2j1..gws-wiz.....0.eZ9vVI3T-0I
Yesterday, I saw a doctor at Baylor Scott and White Hospital about my ankle. He said he was in New York the week before and had seen “Wicked” for the first time with his wife. (It was her fifth time.)
Lorie plays a violin for concerts. She played at Judy and my wedding. A farmer said, “Boy, she sure could beat up on that fiddle.”
Good Lord's Day to you, REX RAY
my goodness, Judy has an accomplished family . . . I know she must be proud of them.
I'm glad your doctor got to see that famous play in NYC but I am also interested in what he had to say about the condition of your ankle and if he recommended anything that might help it, that is, if you care to share it, in which case I will pray for good to come as is my way.
I got to thinking about my response to your dream/nightmare concerning Paige Patterson; and I felt that I needed to look at it from a wider lens than my own revulsion for how he treated women. And this is what I came up with:
the SBC only distanced themselves from him once it became public that he had gone 'too far' in the abusive behaviors and comments. . . . . but IF the SBC as a convention had not fostered misogyny through the changes in the BF&M 2K and in the promotion of CBMW and ESS, I imagine some 'restraint' might have made Patterson re-consider or at least pause in the destructiveness of some women's lives. But he was given 'adulation' and a position of high eminence and 'authority' as a voice for the SBC . . . he was 'prominent' and what he said 'mattered' and those who didn't agree with him were in for some rough treatment. I have to think that when we 'idolize' those who are 'famous', we make a mistake especially in the areas of religion and politics. There is enough shared guilt in providing a green light for the Pattersons of this world that we cannot just look at them as the sole guilty one in the bullying that followed their elevation to such a high status, no.
Whatever it is in us that demands a 'Bully-in-Chief' and sends him/her out into the world to do our bidding until they 'go too far';
that is something in us that needs to be reckoned with and we must accept some responsibility for telling the bully: let's you and the vulnerable go fight;
because we would not ourselves bully a child or a woman in distress, would we? Of course not. No. Our hands are washed clean. And we have turned the vulnerable over to be crucified once more???
I think we all need to stop glorifying those who target and harm innocent people. Because we wouldn't do it, so why do we give them enough rope to hand themselves as they abuse others???
Patterson needed to be stopped. Wade stood up for victims, for which he paid a price. But not enough stood up with him and the abuses continued.
Maybe the 'nightmare' is how people 'glorify' bullies and then latter throw them under the bus when they are past all use as 'frontmen' for our own sin against the vulnerable????
Am I wrong here? Or not? I just have a heavy heart these days for helpless innocent beings who have great need for Christian people in the Church to stand up for them against the evil that presently torments them without mercy.
REX RAY, I was right about your 'nightmare',
but when I see what is happening in our country, in the day-time, to real people, I am living in sorrow for them and I cannot wake up from this because it is really happening that the powers that be are opening allowing tiny children to sit in their own feces without a chance to bathe or to be properly clothed with diapers and clean clothing. May God have mercy on all of us together. The nightmare for me is on-going and real.
CHRISTIANE,
The doctor’s recommendation of washing my ankle with Dial Soap was a disaster. I must have rubbed too hard, as I had to take Tylenol and a pain pill to get to sleep. Last week, I told a doctor, “I’m seeing four doctors and none of you have the same solution.”
He said, “Well, which one is the best looking?”
What has our world become? Today’s newspaper published 12,757 fatal overdoses involving prescription painkillers occurred in 2018, and 14,495 in 2017.
Yesterday’s newspaper had the story of a mother and daughter that wanted the daughter to have a baby. So, they killed a pregnant woman and cut the baby out, which also killed the baby.
"What has our world become?"
It has always been a place of suffering for innocent people, especially children
. . . but today the difference is the Presence of the Resurrected Christ;
and those who torment the innocent today will come 'to stand before the Lamb upon the throne'
About those 'pain pills' . . . use with care, as some are highly addictive as many people have found out the hard way
with all the medical people in my family, I've come to respect that they also are only human and though they can medicate and bandage the wound, it is always God Who does the healing
CHRISTIANE,
Not to worry about pain pills. I’ve taken four this year from a bottle that I didn’t use in 2015.
yikes, your pills are out-of-date! More trouble!
CHRISTIANE,
Hey! Monday, got new pain pills. Did no good. Tuesday, a doctor named Solomon at Bonham VA, wrapped my ankle from toe to knee with cloth soaked in some solution. Stopped the pain. I’m to leave it on six days, then use a salve and antibiotics.
I can walk without a cane, and this morning I gave the buzzards a coon breakfast.
Hello REX RAY,
wow, 'wrapped from toe to knee' . . . no pain . . . you've got to find out what that solution was
and the doctor is named Solomon 'the Wise' :)
glad things are looking up, (BTW toss the OLD pain pills out, you don't want meds in the house that are past their expiration dates)
It's about time you found some good help with that ankle. :) Take it easy!
CHRISTIANE,
I agree about finding good help. Four days ago, I was ‘walking on air’ I felt so good. I had asked if should go to the pharmacy and get the doctor’s additional salve and antibiotics. They said it would be mailed to me. (I live five miles away.) But as days passed the ‘air’ turned to ‘mud’.
Today, I had Judy take the wrappings off because of pain. The medicine still covering my leg except the bad spot had leaked so much fluid the medicine was gone in that area.
Judy pushed me in a wheelchair to the pharmacy. They said they had no orders to mail it. They had the salve and antibiotics.
It helps if the left hand knows what the right hand has done. I should have gone sooner because I’ve experienced the opposite. (Waiting when their orders were to mail.)
CHRISTIANE,
I think about a two inch diameter of my body knows what hell feels like. Solman’s salve had a warning that it might sting. Duh.
Within minutes, I tried to remove it, but some was in a deep place. I think it was ‘eating’ into a nerve.
I tried another doctor’s “Topical Anesthetic Creem L-M-X” that’s good for stopping pain, but the liquid running out made it slide off. I got little sleep last night, but making up today after the pain cream stayed on.
Hey REX RAY,
thank God for Judy!
you definitely need some pain meds specific to that aggravated nerve, wow
like having a 'toothache in your heel' (from 'Old Dan Tucker')
nothing worse than nerve pain, no
Keep trying. (That pharmacy!!! What is going on there?) Complain to the manager!
You are probably not the only one having trouble with that pharmacy's lack of communication skills.
I'm using a medicine mail delivery system. It's working so far.
CHRISTIANE,
It’s not the druggist fault as the tube of medicine is “IODOSORB Cadexomer Iodine Gel”. It’s made in Sweden, and Federal law restricts its sale only by doctors. It’s in a sealed tube and has a high concentration of Iodine.
I remember as a kid we begged not to have iodine on a cut because it hurt more than the cut.
We’re going to visit my brother.
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