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| Donald Sterling |
I have a question. How would Americans feel if the remarks of Donald Sterling to his girlfriend revolved around his hatred of Christians and her association with Christianity? Brendan Eich, CEO of Mozilla, was recently removed from his corporate position because of his Christian beliefs. The leftists in American culture despise Christians, similar to the way Donald Sterling despises blacks. Brendan Eich of Mozilla believes marriage should be defined as a relationship between a man and a woman, and liberals treated Eich in a similar manner to the way Donald Sterling treated Magic Johnson. They sought to keep Brendan Eich out of the arena of business like Donald Sterling sought to keep blacks out of his basketball arena. Slate Magazine writes that liberalism has become the new Moral Majority. I would say it even stronger: Some liberals have become the new racists.
Don't believe me? Read the following bone-chilling conversation. I have taken the actual transcript of the conversation between Clipper's owner Donald Sterling and his girlfriend and placed the words "Christian," or "belief in the Bible," or "Christianity" or "faith in Jesus and His Word" in the place of the owner's racist words.
While we applaud the NBA for their strong stand against racial prejudice, we should be ashamed for our silence at the liberal attack on Brendan Eich. Let's stop the hypocrisy and acknowledge that when Christians who believe the Bible are publicly, vocally and hatefully oppressed (as Brendan Eich was), our country ought to express just as much outrage as we do when we hear the words of Donald Sterling.
______________________________________________
Donald's Girlfriend: - Why are you mad at me? I haven’t done anything
wrong. If we ever have any issues it’s because people call you and tell you
things about me that are not true.
Donald Sterling: - Why
are you broadcasting that you are a Christian? Why do you take pictures with
other Christians and put what you believe on Instagram?
Donald's Girlfriend: - What’s wrong with Christianity? What’s wrong with people like me who believe
the Bible?
Donald Sterling: -Nothing (sarcasm).
Nothing (sarcasm). It’s like talking to an enemy. There’s
nothing wrong with Christians, they’re fabulous! (sarcasm) Fabulous! (sarcasm)
Because you’re an enemy to me.
Donald's Girlfriend: - Why?
Donald Sterling: - Because you
don’t understand.
Donald's Girlfriend: - I don’t understand what?
That hating Christ and His Word is still alive?
Donald Sterling: - No, you
don’t understand that there’s a culture. People I’m around feel certain things
about Christianity and those who believe the Bible. Homosexuals feel certain
things toward Christians who believe the Bible. Other people I’m around feel
negative things toward those who believe the Bible. It’s where our nation
has arrived, and it’s not going to change.
Donald's Girlfriend: - But I can’t renounce my faith in Jesus Christ and what
the Bible teaches in either my heart or my mind.Donald Sterling: - But maybe you should adjust to the world.
Donald's Girlfriend: - But why? The world doesn’t do anything for me and it’s
not the world that makes me happy. It’s my faith in Jesus Christ.
Donald Sterling: You’re right. I don’t want to argue with you. I don’t
want to argue.
Donald's Girlfriend: I can’t renounce
Christ or His Word in my heart.
Donald Sterling: Okay.
Fine. But I’m living in a culture, and I have to live within that culture. So
that’s the way it is. That’s all. I got it. I got the whole message. You must
live with your heart. You can’t be flexible. You can’t…
Donald's Girlfriend: - I am flexible. I understand that you were
taught to dislike Christianity and that’s the way our culture has gone. And I’m
respectful.
Donald Sterling: - Well why do
you have to disrespect the world?
Donald's Girlfriend: - Whom am I disrespecting?
Donald Sterling: - The world before you.
Donald's Girlfriend: - Why am I disrespecting the world?
Donald Sterling: By
believing marriage is between a man and a woman and believing that
homosexuality, adultery, and other sexual immorality is sin! By being perceived
as closed-minded and bigoted by culture and the world. By being a Christian
with moral convictions! Is there a benefit to you? Maybe you’re stupid. Maybe
you don’t know what people think of you. IT DOES MATTER, YEAH! IT DOES MATTER.
STOP IT!
41 comments:
What amazes me, as the media drones on and on about this situation, is that nobody seems the least bit put off when referring to this team owner, his girlfriend, and the fact his WIFE is suing the girlfriend.
We should expect moral behavior from a man already involved with a wife AND a girlfriend?
Linda
This is a good example of the Christian persecution myth prevalent today. Conservative Christians go out of their way to persecute gay families by preventing the legality of their unions. Then the conservative Christians claim that they are being persecuted because someone calls them out on it.
I must admit to being really disturbed by reading this.
Steven,
“Families” is a respected word. Is that why you used it with “gay”…trying to make “gay” respectable?
A sheep next to a pig lying in the mud won’t make the pig look any cleaner.
I guess you get “disturbed” by (2 Peter 2:6).
“He turned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into heaps of ashes and blotted them off the face of the earth, making them an example for all the ungodly in the future to look back upon and fear.” (Living Bible)
Rex Ray,
I know many gay families. Wonderful people, no different than you - except that they tolerate you much better than you tolerate them.
Your theology is - do this or that, or else God will hurt you.
This is total moral bankruptcy. I think you are probably a far better person than your comments here.
stevenstarkmusic,
I'm thinking "broad stroke" comments from conservatives OR liberals might be out of place in a respectful dialogue. From Christians or non-Christians as well, for that matter.
I know some Christians who believe that marriage should be a civil right of homosexuals. To say they are immoral and can't be Christian and say that, is beyond the pale.
That's too broad a stroke to make in a respectful conversation it seems to me.
Then, I know some Christians who DON'T believe marriage is the civil right of homosexuals and DO believe marriage is for male and female only. To say they are homophobic and persecute people who disagree is beyond the pale as well.
That's too broad of a stroke to make in a respectful conversation as well.
I'm thinking "broad stroke" statements may even be untruthful when we think about it. None of us would want that I'm sure.
I'm afraid your very good final sentence to Rex might be true for more of us than we think, myself included all too often.
Steven,
I'm not quite sure why my article disturbed you. I treat homosexuals with love, respect and acceptance: (see http://www.wadeburleson.org/2011/06/militant-homosexuals-loving-them-to.html)
My point is: To condemn someone and seek to remove him from his position in the business world because of what he believes about marriage (i.e. "it is between a man and a woman"), seems to me to be a form of bigotry, similar to Donald Sterling seeking to keep Magic Johnson from his arena.
Just my thoughts. I must admit, however, my logic may seem disturbing to some at times, even to myself!
:)
Wade,
I agree with the gist of your comment. I must point out the broad stroke in your post, however - "Liberals have become the new racists."
But we are all guilty of dehumanizing others through generalization and stereotype.
I would ask that Christians who think gay families should not be legally recognized consider what "homophobic" means. Does it mean one pictures gay people in the mind's eye and actively dislikes them? Perhaps. Or can it mean that one is actively promoting policies that makes their lives more difficult - even without feeling of anger?
Many racists will claim they don't necessarily think black people are inferior (those most surely do). They simply think that America is for white people and Africa is for black people.
Does racism require a feeling? Does homophobia require a feeling? Or are they actions?
We are often taught that love is not an emotion, it is an action. Does hate work the same way?
These are deep questions - I do not have a complete answer at all. However, I do know that we should look carefully at the facts on the ground when determining whose lives are being affected by our actions and beliefs. Otherwise we can find ourselves claiming that Caesar is actually the one being persecuted by those Christians saying that "Jesus is Lord."
Thanks, Wade!
Yep, Steven, I can see the stroke was too broad. "Some liberals" would have been much better, and I've gone back and edited the post thanks to your encouragement.
Thanks to Paul Burleson for pointing out what I've always known from a personal perspective. Not all liberals are in lockstep with the views of other liberals, and I'm sure the same can be said of conservatives. I consider myself a free-thinker whose views cross the boundaries of what's considered normative for both camps, in other words, I tend to be all over the map. For all its highly touted glam and open mindedness, the post modern age (in my opinion anyway) tends to be mired in a knee-jerk polarization not seen since the McCarthy era.
I agree with your assessment that there is a bias against Christianity and that Christians must refuse to be silent. However, I do believe it was inappropriate and poor taste and poor timing to take this unfortunate bias of offensive comments shown by Mr. Sterling towards a race and minimize it by injecting another bias in his comments. Again, I agree with your assessment but just think it was bad timing to use this incident as a platform for another bias.
Rick Gering
Lead Pastor
Sugar Grove Church
I wrote a response comment at SBCVoices to their article about this incident,
but I wrote it from ANOTHER point of view: the reaction of conservative Christians.
Here is the comment, as I think there may be something in it that connects in a strange way to Wade's post. Take a look:
" . . . his (Sterling's) spoken words were punished in accordance with the current conscience of the country towards wrong treatment of minority peoples and groups . . .
on this issue, with this man, many Christian conservatives can support the decision to punish him;
but on OTHER issues,
for those who offend the current conscience of the country in their treatment of minority groups, there will be a conflict between the public response and the conservative Christian response . . .
maybe it’s time to work towards a Christian response that is more cohesively ‘of Christ’ and not blown this way and that way by what is ‘acceptable’ and what is not ‘acceptable’ in the culture(s) that are involved . . .
The response of Christians in this world to events needs to be born out of the crucifixion and the Resurrection of Our Lord. Only it doing this, can Christian people bring some healing to the situations in which they find themselves involved.
We can’t be ‘petty’ in ANY of our reactions as a Christian people.
It’s time to reflect on our own ‘voice’ in the darkness:
do we add to the darkness in our response to evil ?
or do we bring the light of Christ Himself ?"
- See more at: http://sbcvoices.com/mining-for-gold-in-the-sterling-silver-confrontation/#sthash.6GGkj8oO.dpuf
You know, just looking at it as objectively as I can, this post does seem odd to me-- because neither Brendan Eich nor any other Christian that I know of is being persecuted just for being a Christian: you know, for believing Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Savior of the World, who died and rose again to save us from our sins. The negative response seems to be coming, instead, because of behavior from Eich which is perceived as similar in kind to the behavior from Sterling that sets black people apart to be treated differently than other people: that is, that Eich advocates treating gay people differently than other people.
Christians may disagree that these cases are similar-- but for those who perceive that they ARE similar, there is no hypocrisy involved. Eich and Sterling are both being punished for perceived bigotry towards a group of people. Neither is being punished for identifying with a particular religion.
Christians are, from the point of view of secular society, claiming a special right to treat a certain group of people with bigotry. It is for this that the negative reactions are coming-- not simply for being Christians.
Regardless of whether this Christian belief really is bigotry or not, this is the perception-- so whatever the reaction of "liberal" society may be called, I really don't think it's hypocrisy. The treatment of Eich and Sterling seems to be fairly consistent, actually.
Steven,
What is a “gay family”? Is that two men or two women living together, or must they have children? And where did the children come from? Are the children taught to be gay?
You said, “…they tolerate you much better than you tolerate them.”
Amen to that! That’s about like saying ‘crooks tolerate police better than police tolerate crooks’.
When I was a college student, on two occasions, gays picked me up. One even got me in bed before I knew what he was. His “You can’t blame a guy for trying” leads me to believe that gays prefer sex with a ‘straight’ person. Otherwise why did gays want sex with God’s angels?
Steven, do you believe the fear of the Lord is the beginning of understanding, and what soever a person sows; that will he also reap?
Yes, my theology is – do this or that just as God wants us to do and our life will be the better for it.
No one has mentioned this. This was a PRIVATE conversation. Why are we punishing people for their PRIVATE conversation that became public. I find Sterling's comments to be quite distasteful and awful. I feel one should punish someone for their ACTIONS or DEEDS. I am sure there are many such actions and deeds in Sterling's life that merit such punishments.
The irony being NBA was planning to present Sterling with a SECOND life time achievement award.
BTW I have heard similar comments as made by Sterling to ME by Liberals, Christians, Asians, African Americans and others. My experience is we ALL are fu**ed up pretty bad. That includes me too. My thinking is we think each of us are not capable of saying similar things or do them. We all are capable and do them. Our lives are full of self delusions and hypocrisy.
some time ago, I read this reflection written by a Southern Baptist man named Rev. Dan K. Phillips, an ordained minister, having received a Master of Divinity degree from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky:
"I have come to a conclusion that we have missed the truth of the gospels.
We have made their message to easy. We have clothed it in a magical
secularism. We have claimed a God without sacrifice. We have blaimed
others for our own infidelities. Our patience has grown dim and we have
cast out the fallen brother.
We have not seen the hurt in our neighbors eye, yet still call ourselves
Christian."
Is it possible that there are Christian people who understand that 'patience', that profound fruit of the Holy Spirit, can help shield us from our own human arrogant pride in our own self-righteousness,
and bring us to our knees ?
I think it is very possible that the 'conservative Christian' world may have many souls in it who are blessed with the fruit of the Holy Spirit. And they will remember Him before they throw stones of contempt for fallen people, and they will put down those stones, and they will seek the peace of Our Lord in His Presence in their prayers and ask for His mercy on all of us.
I trust Jesus Christ to help us become more fully His servants in this sad world. We need His humility, and His strength, and those two things are not disconnected. The Cross tells us that truth. As does the Resurrection.
A good take on this is Jonathan Turley.
To Rex: You know, Rex, each and every gay person is not representative of all gays. Maybe you should actually talk to some gay people and get to know them as human beings?
After all, it would be pretty sad if I judged all heterosexual men by the ones who tried to pick me up in college...
A side note ...
If you think all your private conversations and actions will be private when you are near any smartphones, webcams, cellphones, computers ... think again.
Granted that only "evil" moslems, occupy protesters, tree huggers, people who are different from the mainstream are currently being targeted for this monitoring ... but even this is wrong.
Everyone is being monitored and could easily be recorded and their entire life story exposed with a few key strokes by the govt.
This is not a fantasy or a paranoid delusion. The Govt. can change on a dime whose private conversations/actions be leaked/released.
Though in this case Sterling's GF accidentally recorded the conversation on her phone.
Sorry to say that there is no privacy as far as electronic gadgets are concerned around the world. (Strong encryption for now works, but your associations are still revealed).
Thy Peace,
Pretty perceptive stuff.
Kristen,
Once, a nice guy and I worked a 40 hour shift while we were going to college. He praised me a lot…even wrote “golden boy” on the slot where my time card was kept.
He came to my apartment once and started a friendly wrestle. It was a different kind of wrestle and I quit. He said he was sorry and told me he had to go to Dallas to have a good time. He never said he was gay but changed his ‘behavior’ around me.
Yes, he was a “human being”, just as recorded in Romans 1:24-27: “God let them go ahead into every sort of sex sin…vile and sinful things with each other’s bodies…they deliberately chose to believe lies…their women indulged in sex sin with each other…and their men burned with lust for each other…”
Jesus said to love everyone, but DID NOT say to love their SIN.
I believe the first way the devil gets people to accept sin is to accept it as being funny.
TV is full of it…with gay couples making everyone laugh. I record “The Modern Family” and fast forward through the gay men part.
Kristen, how much do you believe America has increased in people becoming gay in the last 50 years?
Is there a danger of “There was homosexuality throughout the land, and the people of Judah became as depraved as the heathen nations…” (1 Kings 14:24)
OFF TOPIC
Facts of Robert F. Kennedy’s Assassination in 1968 while a
Presidential Candidate to Replace LBJ
CNN by Michael Martinez and Brad Johnson 4-3-12
Summarized by Rex Ray 4-19-14
1. Audiotape of a cassette recorder revealed 13 shots.
2. Sirhan Sirhan’s gun held only 8 bullets.
3. Twice, Sirhan shot horizontal while several feet in FRONT of Kennedy, but medical evidence showed the bullets entered Kennedy point blank at an upward angle that caused powder-burns and came from BEHIND him.
4. Kennedy was hit 3 times with one bullet passing harmless through the shoulder of his coat. Sirhan fired 8 times, but after his first two shots, bystanders had his shooting arm pinned against a table which caused five others to be injured by his shooting.
5. The recorder revealed eight gunshots had the same sound and were the 1st, 2nd,4th, 6th,7th,9th,11th, and 13th while a different gunshot sound was the 3rd,5th,8th,10th, and 12th shots. Also some of the sounds were so close together, it would be impossible to pull a trigger that fast.
6. Kennedy’s bodyguard, Thane Eugene Cesar, and two hotel captains were escorting Kennedy at the time of the shooting. Why did authorities NOT test them if they had shot a gun? Authorities DID NOT even test Cesar’s gun (different from Sirhan’s) if it had been fired! Cesar left to live in the Philippines for a period.
7. Private researchers found physical evidence of more than eight bullets fired, but authorities did not report the extra bullets and disposed of bullet-riddled wood panels and ceiling tiles.
8. At Sirhan’s trial, ‘substitute’ bullets were allowed to be used instead of those removed from Kennedy and other victims.
9. Daniel Brown, a professor in psychology at Harvard Medical School has interviewed Sirhan for 60 hours over a three-year period. Sirhan does not remember the assassination, but only being at a gun range and shooting at circular targets. Brown believes Sirhan was programmed to shoot by being hypnotized and was lured to the hotel by a young woman in a polka dot dress.
Rex writes:
Why was all the information above denied the jurors including the autopsy? In 1960, there were extremely bitter feelings between Robert Kennedy and LBJ when Robert tried to persuade him not to be his brother’s running mate. As Attorney General, Robert discovered LBJ had received $100,000 kickback from General Dynamics and was a corrupt politician. (James Tague’s book: page 317, 400)
I believe the assassination was similar as his brother’s since a ‘patsy’ was provided. It is well known that LBJ was a champion at controlling authorities and the question that comes to me is: Would LBJ want someone to become president who had asked him “Why did you have my brother killed?” http://johnsonbushandnixonkilljohnfkennedy.blogspot.com/
Remember that this was a private conversation that was taped by an angry lover. Just imagine if we taped all the private conversations of the black coaches and players and put them on the front page. It would not be a pretty sight.
And how did this discussion so quickly turn into an indictment of gay people? If we as Christians were as concerned about the straight people who are violating Scripture sexually instead of always jumping on gay people things might get a little more balanced. Just look at your average congregation and realize that maybe 1% of them are gay and maybe not even sexually active but then think of all the straight people in the audience who are having affairs right under your nose.
Anonymous,
I don’t know if, “It’s the bite dog that hollers” applies here or not, but the difference between Christians that sin and gays is that Christians grieve the Holy Spirit within them and feel miserable until they repent.
Whereas the gay does not repent, and may even be proud of it.
BTW, I don’t think God makes anyone gay and then condemns them.
Rex, since I don't think gay is something you can "become," I don't think America's percentage of gay people has increased in the last 50 years. I think instead that people who used to hide in fear are now open about it.
I don't want to get into a big discussion on biblical texts here, but I have seen some good reasons to question reading the verses you quote in quite the all-encompassing way you do.
And the problem with "hate the sin, love the sinner" is that most of the time this is a camouflage for hating the sinner too. After all, do we "hate the sin" of greedy people, liars, drunkards, idolaters, etc., to the same level? Do we vilify and ostracize and reject them in the same way? I think not. And yet 1 Cor. 6:9 mentions all of these together.
P.S. 1 Kings 14:24 says "male shrine prostitutes." There is good reason to believe that 1 Cor. 6:9 is actually talking about that as well.
Wade, I think this is article is an eye opener and right on target. This secular situation does indeed mirror what is to come very soon. I know this departs from the article but since the issue of gays has been brought up, I am astounded at the number of professing Christians who have begun to embrace this abhorrent behavior. I believe some are actually saying this is a part of God's plan. Further, I really do not understand how so many are defining love for them. It appears it is an embracing love that desires to give them the right to practice this lifestyle with God's blessing. When one attempts to redefine Scripture, question its authority and loses passion for the holiness of God, the devil always gets a foothold. . The reason it is at the forefront of evangelical attack is because it has only come to the cultural focus as an issue in the last decade. I think the way we love them is to share the truth of the redemptive love of the sacrificial atonement of our Lord. By the way... if God loves the sinner but hates the sin, why does He not just throw their sin in to hell and not the sinner? Sin comes from the heart which is deceitfully wicked. It cannot be separated from the person. P.S. Wade. Thanks for the Wednesday night series on Eschatology!
Kristen, thanks for your excellent analysis of the situation throughout this thread.
It's a scary thought to think that God hates people and the devil is more "embracing" of gay people. It makes me wonder who the good guy is in the discussion. (On a similar note, read the second account of creation in Genesis. If you forget the names, who comes across as the good guy, the serpent or Jehovah? Is it any wonder that many early Christian gnostics thought that the serpent was an appearance of Jesus to assist Adam and Eve in escaping the demiurge creator?)
There are many conflicting attitudes throughout Scripture - but I am more drawn to the Sermon on the Mount. Love your enemies so that you might be perfect - like your Father in Heaven is perfect. That is what perfection is defined as here. Of course one can find proof texts about revenge and hate if one is more drawn to those aspects of Scripture.
Once again, the conservative Christian position seems too often to be the worship of perceived power and authority instead of the worship of goodness - of the "perfection" described in Matthew 5. There are few moral arguments made - just "do this or God will hurt you."
The Bible can become a mirror for our deep tendencies - a proof texting Rorschach blot.
Kristen,
You said, “I don’t think gay is something you can “become”…
Could this Scripture teach otherwise? “If you cause one of these little ones…to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.” (Matthew 18:6 NLT)
John,
Well said.
Steven,
Nuff said.
Rex, the "sin" in the passage is unspecified. But your remarks to date show that you think gays are out there actively recruiting children and "turning" them gay. The evidence and facts, however, show otherwise. Gay behavior, like heterosexual behavior, runs on a long spectrum from committed monagamy to complete promiscuity. The LBGT people I know are mostly in committed monogamous relationships. There is no one "gay lifestyle" any more than there is one "heterosexual lifestyle." Why shouldn't Christians look at the studies and data as well as getting to know people personally (and finding out they are not, in fact, monsters or child molesters)?
Steven, I appreciate your kind words. The problem I have with this whole thing is that every other sin in the Bible is in some way harmful to the self or others and is a violation of the law of love. Committed, monogamous same-sex relationships actually are beneficial to the parties involved. I therefore question the flat interpretation of the "clobber verses" against gays. That's all.
Kristen, I agree. I disagree with the new atheists who think that faith generally-speaking is the problem. However, the abuse of faith is a huge problem - which I define as the willful disregard of empirical evidence.
"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to believe!" -Robert M. Price.
There's one other thing I would like to say. People are lamenting that this private conversation became public, and how there is no privacy in our world today. I, too, regret that privacy is so difficult to preserve nowadays, but Sterling actually has a long history of racist behavior, particularly as a landlord towards tenants of color. All of that has been successfully ignored by the NBA. Ever stop to think that the publicity here might have been God's judgment-- allowing Sterling's excreable remarks to get out to where the racism in his heart, out of which his mouth spoke, could no longer be ignored, hushed up or whitewashed over? From what I'm reading, Sterling is really only sorry he got caught.
We ought to be glad for the sake of our brothers and sisters of color that these sorts of attitudes are exposed-- and maybe start doing what we can to combat such attitudes rather than wishing they could stay hidden. Believe me, Sterling is only the tip of the iceberg.
Hi KRISTEN,
a lot of racism today is just 'coded' . . . it's 'out there' and open for everyone to see, but it is in 'code' so that it attempts to pass under the radar
I suppose it falls to all of us to examine our thoughts as well as our spoken words for those signs of intolerance and arrogance on our own part,
and then to root out the pride that causes us to have contempt for those who are different from ourselves
This is a difficult task. In the end, we can't affect the behaviors of others,
but we can work on our own weaknesses and seek the grace and mercy of God to overcome what leads us to sin against our neighbor, and refuse to see the pain in his eyes.
Maybe the healing takes place one person at a time . . . and it begins within each our own souls as grace comes to us from God and circulates within us and we show this grace to others in our turn, so all that is good comes from God, and in the end returns to Him as we live out the blessing as He has commanded.
On the subject of Christians being persecuted: Someone wrote “The deepest hatred in the world is religious hatred.”
There are unnumbered people who have experienced this hatred starting with Jesus. I believe Wade experienced some when the IMB tried to fire him.
Was this the motivation that caused ex-SBC President, Tom Eliff, in 1998 to tell the new SBC President, Paige Patterson?:
“All the barnacles and parasites had been removed from the ship of Zion.”
The Baptist Standard printed this letter from me:
“If I was a seminary teacher or a missionary, I could have been shook from the boat or cut from the tree long ago. But I’m just a construction volunteer looking forward to my ninth trip of building churches or missionary homes in Japan. I’ve just received a usual “Certificate of Appreciation, May-June 1998 on behalf of the Southern Baptist Convention. This “barnacle” and “parasite” is wondering if there is a double standard.”
IMB President, Jerry Rankin, told my missionary son that he was ‘grandfathered in’ and would NOT have to sign the BF&M 2000. Then he told him if he did NOT sign, he would NOT be fired. There was enough ‘pressure’ put on Rankin that he could not keep either of his promises.
There were about a hundred long-time missionaries that would not sign a creed and left their calling by retiring or being fired. One of those fired had served 24 years. He wrote in part:
“It may be that this will turn out to be the end of my missionary career, but I want you to know that if I go, I go as a true Baptist and a true servant of the SBC, but Christ first—ALL FOR CHRIST. Stan R. Lee…Rwanda, Africa.”
HI CHRISTIANE,
Quite right. I seriously request white Christians who really want to listen to their brothers and sisters of color, who want to see perspectives that will open their eyes, to visit these two Christian reconciliation websites:
By Their Strange Fruit: Christianity and Race in America
Christena Cleveland's Faith & Reconciliation Blog
Kristen--I live in a town with a large population of gay people. There is no evidence being brought forth that they benefit from monogamous long term relationships.
To get to that statement requires long term sociological studies, not queries where you phone some up and ask if it makes them happier and accept the answer.
Studies of physical health and mental health seem to suggest that these relationships do produce victims.
linda
Virtually all studies show that gay marriage is a benefit to society and to the individual. Telling gay people they need to stay in the shadows or live lives without intimate relationships is a pretty calloused thing to do.
There is Regnerus's study that supposedly shows that having gay parents is harmful to kids, but this is an outlier and the methods are extremely questionable.
One of the main problems is that Regnerus’s criteria of what makes up a gay family was whether a kid’s parent ever had a same-sex relationship, regardless of how long it lasted or what role in played in parenting.
A kid raised in a heterosexual household with a father who had gay flings on the side would have been judged the product of a gay family structure.
Critics point out that Regenerus' study is about unstable families, not gay or straight families.
A stable family is of great benefit to couples, kids and society - which is why medical and psychological and pediatric organizations support gay marriage. Let's support love and commitment.
Lesbians have an average life span of only 44 years, while straight women have an average life span of 79 years. Homosexual men live an average life span of 42 years compared to a heterosexual men’s life span of 74 years. Gays are at a greater risk of incurring emotional problems, suicide, depression, nicotine addiction, conduct disorder and anxiety disorder. The average homosexual man has had hundreds of partners and, according to the CDC in Atlanta may engage 300 partners a year sexually. It has been reported than in gay bathhouses that a man may have sex with up to 28 men per night.
•24% of homosexuals have had 100 partners
•43% have had 500 partners
•28% have had 1000 partners
Andrew Sullivan, a homosexual advocate has stated that gay couples adhere to a very different standard than straight couples. They have a need for greater understanding for the need for extra marital outlets.
Not exactly what I would call stable much less a positive contributor to society.
John, please show me your source on the lifespan numbers, and I will point to you sources which debunk those bogus claims.
As to the sexual partner numbers - whether those numbers are right or not (probably very NOT,on average) - if you are concerned about it, them help promote marriage and stable family units for gay families.
I normally avoid the liberal vs. conservative debate, but I couldn't resist without giving my input in all of this. I have to politely disagree with you regarding the leftist hating Christians. Many people on the left-leaning side are Christians despite the stereotype that Christians are all ultra conservative right-wingers. I couldn't help but find some of what you say generalization and a tad unfair. I also don't compare Donald Sterling's comments to someone being against a christian who condemns gay people simply for the reason many view gay people as being discriminated against in society just like black people and other minorities have. In fact these people will argue that Christians who oppose gays are the ones being bigoted. I have to agree with Paul Burleson's post the most. A Christian who defends gays to have the same civil rights including marriage doesn't make one less of a christian especially if they support churches' right to refuse to marry them on their biblical beliefs plus there is city hall. A Christian who opposes gay marriage because they sincerely it goes against the bible, doesn't make one a bigot, there are plenty of non-religious people who are homophobic. I think maybe as Christians, we should go beyond the conservative and liberal debate with finger-pointing and generalizations, but biblical viewpoints on the issues. Although I don't all the answers on this subject.
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