Rachelle and I enjoyed a good day in Louisville on Monday. Rather than give a detailed review of every message given on Monday, I decided to give just a one sentence observation of each pastor and/or message.Mike Landry - (8:55 a.m.) "Anybody given the 8:55 a.m. time slot on Monday morning at the Southern Baptist Convention's Pastors' Conference should be praised just for accepting."
Ed Stetzer - (9:35 a.m.) "Ed is the real deal; the SBC needs more men like Ed in leadership. He gave an excellent message on the state of the SBC."
Tom Elliff - (11:00 a.m.) "Tom delivered a message I've heard before from him on the importance of forgiveness; a message in which he shares anecdotes from his own family."
Michael Catt - (1:55 a.m.) "This former pastor of FBC Ada, Oklahoma is known more for his movie making ("Facing the Giants" and "Fireproof") than he is his preaching, though he does a good job at both."
Fred Luter, Jr - (2:55 p.m.) "The best comment about Fred's message came from Mike Huckabee who followed him: (Quote) 'Don't you wish Barak Obama had sat under Fred's preaching for 20 years rather than Jeremiah Wright's preaching?' (Endquote)."
Mike Huckabee - (3:45 p.m.) "Governor Huckabee is funny and effective as he delivers his first campaign speech for the Presidential campaign of 2012.
Alvin Reid - (7:00 p.m.) "Ditto what was said about Ed Stetzer regarding Dr. Reid - Southern Baptists need more like this professor from Southeastern who is rather unafraid to tell it like it is."
David Platt - (7:45 p.m.) "I predict the ubiquit0us David Platt of Brookhills Baptist in Birmingham will be on more Pastors' Conference programs in the next 20 years than any other SBC pastor."
Johnny Hunt - (8:30 p.m.) "One thing that must be said about Johnny Hunt is he is not used to anybody telling him how something should be done - no doubt about it as to who is setting the agenda for this Convention (and Pastors' Conference)."
The Great Commission Resurgence is the hot topic, and by Thursday it will be discussed even more across the Southern Baptist Convention.
Tuesday Preview
Look for some very surprising motions (and fully expected motions) to be presented right off the bat at 8:30 a.m. eastern time from the floor of the Convention.
Also, during the Executive Committee's second report in the afternoon there will be a controversial recommendation regarding disfellowshipping from a SBC church.
Look for a couple of possible surprises in the Nominating Committee report as well.
All eyes and ears will be tuned to the two speeches by Morris Chapman and Johnny Hunt - two men who have much in common, but at this Convention a great deal of public differences.
It should be an interesting Tuesday, not the least of reasons is my booksigning, unlike other booksignings, is being done in the waiting line for people buying donuts.
:)
In His Grace,
Wade
55 comments:
Huckabee for President.
Are you giving a doughnut away for each book you sign?
Ditto Robert! Wish we had him now!
Wade,
I’ll match your “one sentence observation of each pastor…” for Tom Eliff.
But first, it seems those of the C/R are still in charge/speaking for the SBC.
When Tom Eliff was ‘exiting’ as the President of the SBC, he told the new President, Paige Patterson, “All barnacles and parasites had been removed from the ship of Zion.”
Yes, ‘removed’ but not our money.
The hard question is: How do you have ‘cooperation’ under those conditions?
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm............
.......donuts.
:-)
Stop Baptist Predators > Actions speak louder than words.
When this denomination finally decides to actually take action against clergy sex abuse, here are the basics of what it needs to provide: (1) a safe and welcoming place for people to report clergy sex abuse; (2) an objective, professionally trained panel for responsibly assessing abuse reports; and (3) an efficient means of assuring that the assessment information reaches people in the pews -- i.e., a database.
Tell your Baptist officials to get busy. Tell them you’re tired of just talk. Tell them “actions speak louder than words.” Tell them soon.
Action is what protects kids; not words.
Also, an excellent comment by Christa here.
Wade, as much as I love Johnny Hunt's passion for Christ, I thought for sure you would zero in on his Independent Baptist leanings as evidenced by his sermon? Although he sounded eerily like you when he mentioned what he didnt like about his Independent friends.
You are exactly right on needing more men like Ed Stetzer and Alvin Reid. I listen to them every chance I get. My their tribe increase!
With the inclusion of Mike Huckabee, the SBC continues its identification with the Republican Party. We wonder why baptisms are down. Could it be that our "gospel" includes a perceived political agenda?
Wade
After listening to most of the Pastor's Conference it appears to me that if I had to identify the one emotion used to try to communicate the love of God and His concern for the lost it would be anger.
Chuck
agree, Stephen.
Stephen:
The Gospel always has political implications....do you disagree with that axiom?
Robert I Masters
if you disagree maybe you need to watch the video of the death of that lady Neda in Iran.
Wonderful news. The SBC voted to disfellowship Broadway Baptist. I am so proud to be in the SBC.
You can read the good news here.
Hi CHUCK ANDREWS,
You wrote this:
"After listening to most of the Pastor's Conference it appears to me that if I had to identify the one emotion used to try to communicate the love of God and His concern for the lost it would be anger."
I was not able to see the live feed of the Pastor's Conference.
I wonder if you might share some specifics about the 'anger' emotion that you saw displayed?
I thank you, if you can share. L's
P.S. I DID see Huckabee's speech on Youtube.
Joe B:
Disfellowshipping a Church is good news to you?
You use the word Proud--is that the word you meant to use?
Did Wade make a motion this morning?
Joe, The convention did the right thing, but I hardly find it a reason to be happy. I find it sad that we had to do it, and grieve that a church has been deceived by this movement.
Why do hear anger?
L's
No real specifics. It is just my opinion that the overall feeling I got was a sense of anger. Maybe it was the tone of some of the speakers or their loudness or the look on their faces or... Anyway, I definitely did not perceive this in all the preachers but overall it seemed to me there were some condemnations in their call to repentance.
Mind you, I'm not saying this is the way it was, just that it was my impression. Could be just where I am.
Stephen,
I agree, even though I'm a fan of Mike Huckabee. If we're going to polarize let’s do it around Jesus Christ.
Chuck
I find it interesting that people think that the believers in Broadway church are "deceived" because they are ministering to people.
I tend to think the "deception" in the lives in Southern Baptists who pick and choose one sin to castigate and deny the existence of others. Just look at the pride and anger on the stage at the Pastor's Conference and it is pretty evident why we aren't growing as a convention.
Its hard to believe that anyone could be proud of what was done today. Next to the election in 2008, this is one of the blackest days in our history.
They members who are openly homosexuals. The best way to minister is to practice church discipline.
I don't want to start a fight but would like some open and honest answers to this question:
What would you tell a gay person who is genuinely saved and wants to worship in your church?
Don't give me a bunch of platitudes, just give me an answer that has truth and reality to it.
Remember--whatever answer we give to them, we need to also give to the fornicators, adulterers, and those of the same ilk.
The same answer I would give a man who is cheating on his wife. You are welcome to attend, but we cannot accept you as a member until you repent.
ABP News > UPDATE: SBC messengers sever ties with Texas church over gay members.
LOUISVILLE, Ky. (ABP) -- It took messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting June 23 only 30 seconds to sever a 125-year relationship with a prominent Texas congregation because of the church’s perceived toleration of gay members.
Voting in the opening session of their annual meeting in Louisville, the messengers chose overwhelmingly to dismiss Broadway Baptist Church in Fort Worth. They did so on a recommendation the convention’s Executive Committee approved, without dissent, the day before.
Tom
If a church accepts people who are living a homosexual lifestyle as members then I am glad to see that church no longer in fellowship with the SBC. I am proud that the SBC stood up for what the bible clearly teaches in this matter.
Joe B:
Is there no sadness in your heart at all about them being disfellowshipped?
Joe, Jeff, Texan,
I agree. It is sad and heart breaking that a SBC church has become so socially significant that it has become disrespectful of Christ and His Word. Receiving openly practicing homosexuals into membership shouldn’t be singled out over other blatant sinful behavior. So if an SBC church was receiving into membership those who are openly practicing immorality, covetousness, idolatry, revelry, drunkenness, swindling, etc., in my opinion, the same action should be taken.
I'm proud that the SBC stood in truth and righteousness but I think the more adequate response to this action of “disfellowship” would be weeping not rejoicing.
Chuck
Thy Peace, I didn't read the entire link, but the headline of it is misleading. The exec. committee put a lot of work into it. It was more than just 30 seconds.
Good Morning Everyone,
It's me, L's
Maybe there IS another way to help.
My Church has found a middle way: honesty and compassionate caring without 'rejection'. May I share from a letter to our bishops written in 1987 by then Cardinal Ratzinger?
"But we wish to make it clear that departure from the Church's teaching, or silence about it, in an effort to provide pastoral care is neither caring nor pastoral.
Only what is true can ultimately be pastoral. The neglect of the Church's position prevents homosexual men and women from receiving the care they need and deserve.
An authentic pastoral programme will assist homosexual persons at all levels of the spiritual life: through the sacraments, and in particular through the frequent and sincere use of the sacrament of Reconciliation, through prayer, witness, counsel and individual care. In such a way, the entire Christian community can come to recognize its own call to assist its brothers and sisters, without deluding them or isolating them."
My comment: repentance and reconcilation, prayer, witness, counsel, and individual care.
So needed. By all made in the image of God.
Perhaps someday there will be a NEW approach in the SBC that will offer 'pastoral care' with honesty AND with compassion, and within the embrace of a healing Christian Community of Baptists.
Then, the sense of peacefulness will return.
People are right not to feel peaceful about the 'disfellowship'.
Christians, by their Very Nature, have been 'called' to care for sinners. Everyone has lost something here. Everyone.
Love and Prayers, L's
What would you tell a gay person who is genuinely saved and wants to worship in your church?
I don't believe a person who willfully lives a sin-based lifestyle is saved. In some of his letters, when Paul mentions these kinds of sins to believers, he speaks of them in terms of "In your FORMER life..." or "You USED to do these things, but now..." True believers no longer live in these kinds of sin. They no longer live to sin - or live in sin.
To the brother or sister in Christ genuinely battling to overcome this sin or any other, they have my full acceptance, love, assistance and support as a fellow traveler.
To those who claim to be Christians, but are willfully living sinful lifestyles and attempting to act as if God sees no issues at all with their sin, they do not have that support, yet they have my love (in that I refuse to condemn them) and my prayers that God would intervene and lead them out of that lifestyle. In terms of church, I would not allow them to join just as I would not allow anyone enmeshed in any other sinful lifestyle to join. Doing so would deny the power of the Gospel to change their lives. And if it doesn't have that power, then we are all living a lie.
Some references: Romans 6:2, Romans 6:6, Eph. 4:17 to the end of the chapter
To any Christian who would try to convince anyone that God blesses sin of any kind (including same sex relationships): Galatians 1:6-7
From the Gospel of St. Mark:
"16 When the scribes of the Pharisees saw that He was eating with sinners and tax-collectors, they said to His disciples,
‘Why does He eat* with tax-collectors and sinners?’
17When Jesus heard this, He said to them, ‘Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I have come to call not the righteous but sinners.’
These are Words of the Lord.
Thanks Be To God.
Comment: Would we sit down with Him at the table with the sinners?
Can we 'follow Him'? Maybe not.
I have no answer for anyone but myself. Much Love, L's
Why just pick the issue of homosexuality to defellowship a SBC church?
The SBC always seems to make news around convention time and it is usally of the negative nature and we wonder why non-SB have a negative opinion of us.
If sin is sin and we're all sinners, then let me ask this question.
If they are struggling with the lifestyle in the same way that an overwhelming number of men in the SBC are struggling with pornography, adultery, and other sexual sins, then why aren't we expelling men by the droves?
Being a homosexual is the same sin equivalency as people who willfully speed on the interstate, watch the late night movie channels, access and view porn on the internet, lust after that neighbor down the road, and pridefully think that they're better off than the homosexual.
If we're trying to learn how to reach and minister to homosexuals, then we just set ourselves back twenty or thirty years in this aspect with a mere thirty second vote according to the article.
I would rather have ten struggling, repentant homosexuals trying to learn to follow Christ in this world than the any number of Christians who have views similar to the pharisee and his prayer next to the poor sinner.
The Southern Baptist Convention just spat in the face of all their members who are actively trying to minister and reach out to the homosexual community. I wonder if anyone really knows just how hard it is just to get them to even be responsive when there are years of repeated hatred and abuse coming from churches of all denominations.
A repentant homosexual has just as much right to all the trappings of Southern Baptist life as the men, women, and pastors who struggle with infidelity, pornography, and outright lust. It's all sin, we all have sin, but we're still casting stones.
And yes, I'm sure I'm about to elicit extremely strong reactions, this is just how I feel and no one is going to change my opinion on this. My opinion is formulated from the constant brushing aside of those who commit adultery, the sheer weight of the numbers of Christians admitting to accessing pornography, and the fact that apparently those sexual sins are okay while homosexuality is wrong.
Oh, and the fact that God abhors ALL sexual sin, not just those who practice homosexuality.
I struggle with online pornography, every computer I could ever touch in my life right now has either Covenant Eyes or a high octane filter, I have no less than six people, two ministers, and my wife who monitor my daily computer activities and I am held accountable by them all usually either on a daily (my wife), weekly or biweekly basis. This has been going on for a little over four years now too.
I would say that a repentant homosexual struggling with his/her lifestyle would be a welcome discussion friend in my life.
If this church is ministering and effectively reaching out to homosexuals, we should be asking them for advice, not asking them to hit the road.
This is my stance based on the facts that I'm aware of right now.
Tom
I am sad that the church did not heed the call to repent of their unbiblical position.
Joe B:
While the SBC is disfellowshipping churches--who else would you like to see disfellowshipped?
In other words how many other churches are holding unbiblical positions.
You said to me--"I am sad that the church did not heed the call to repent of their unbiblical position."
In other words you are happy and proud they are gone. Wow!!
Oh, and congrats to Wade Burleson, an influential SBC pastor and blogger, for making it into the Washington Post.
Just thought I'd throw that out there too.
I think it's cool to see his work here make it into the one of the major papers in America.
The Washington Post > On Faith > Under God > Southern Baptists Reject Church.
Broadway might not be the only Southern Baptist congregation facing an ouster this week. Influential Southern Baptist pastor and blogger Wade Burleson predicts that the Convention also will be asked to disassociate from First Baptist Church of Decatur, Ga., which recently called a woman to be its lead pastor. The SBC's Faith and Message, revised in 2000, clearly states that "the office of pastor is limited to men."
"The world may not understand our firm view on homosexuality. So be it," Burleson wrote. "But when half of conservative evangelical Christianity doesn't understand why we would disassociate from churches that call women as pastors, then we lose as a Convention. Let's debate the women in ministry issue. Let's disagree with one another amicably. But for heaven's sake, let's not make fools of ourselves by equating women preaching the gospel with homosexual sin."
By the way, the theme for this year's Southern Baptist Convention: "Love Loud: Actions Speak Louder Than Words."
Influential Southern Baptist pastor and blogger Wade Burleson predicts that the Convention also will be asked to disassociate from First Baptist Church of Decatur, Ga., which recently called a woman to be its lead pastor.
We can only hope.
Robert: Yes, the Gospel always has political implications. Being a disciple of Jesus informs my political beliefs. He tells me to "render unto Caesar" and that I do. Jesus does not tell me to advance the agenda of any political party. Jesus tells me to keep the two commandmants and that I strive to do. Jesus does not tell me to use the government or civil laws to advance the kingdom. In 2008, I supported the candidate that I believed would be better for the country based on my own political philosophy. One's political philosophy or ideology should never be a litmus test for being a Southern Baptist. It seems that is the state of affairs in the SBC today.
So Joe, since you've seen me argue vigorously against the sin of homosexuality, you obviously consider women in ministry (which you mean "preaching in a church from a pulpit and acting all authoritative-like) to be a grievous, heinous sin against God.
Right?
"By the way, the theme for this year's Southern Baptist Convention: "Love Loud: Actions Speak Louder Than Words."
I don't know....Wiley Drake's words spoke quite loudly. If the SBC does not call Drake to repentance and, absent that, disassociate Drake's church, it loses all credibilty as an organization of followers of Christ. Do we want our Christian witness to be associated witn Drake's comments?
grievous, heinous sin against God.
No. Actually I don't. Not even close compared to homosexuality. I would say that someone who is living a homosexual lifestyle and engaging in the act but calls themselves a Christian is likely not a Christian at all. A woman, such as yourself, who is convicted that it is not a sin for a woman to preach or teach in the church is not giving any evidence, in my opinion, that they are not saved. I think they're wrong. I'll contine to say they're wrong. But I can affirm that you are a Christian based on things I've read here.
And here's the funny thing--when we get to heaven we're ALL going to find out there were things we didn't understand or understand completely.
I'm very glad to see you say that, Joe. Because the next question is, do we divide or disfellowship or expel from the SBC over having women in the pulpit?
Stephen:
So does the agenda of the democratic party or the republican party more closely represent Christ!
If that changes then maybe in the future Southern Baptist will all be for deomcrats. As it stands now the domcrats are the party of Satan.
Rob from Geneva
THE GOSPEL OF MATTHEW
Chapter 20
"LORD,
LET OUR EYES BE OPENED";
AND,
MOVED WITH COMPASSION,
JESUS TOUCHED THEIR EYES . . . "
"A cyclist who found him on Snowy Mountain View Road at 6:22 pm, some 18 hours after the attack, at first mistook him for a scarecrow. He was unconscious and suffering from hypothermia.
His face was caked with blood, except where it had been partially washed clean by tears.
Matthew died at 12:53 am on Monday 12th October 1998, at Poudre Valley Hospital in Fort Collins, Colorado, with his family at his bedside.
Hospital officials said Matthew had a fracture from behind his head to just in front of his right ear and a massive brain stem injury which affected his vital signs, including his heart beat, body temperature and other involuntary functions. There were also approximately a dozen small lacerations around his head, face and neck.
He was so badly injured in the attack that doctors were unable to operate. He never regained consciousness after being found, and remained on full life support.
While Matthew lay dying in hospital, just a few miles away, a group of students from Colorado State University thought it would be funny to ride atop a homecoming float that featured a scarecrow figure designed to resemble Matthew's battered body. The figure was wearing a sign that said "I'm gay." An obscene message was painted across the back of the scarecrow's shirt.
The students didn't mean to be insensitive.
It was supposed to be a joke.
They were just ordinary, average guys, having a bit of fun."
Christe eleison.
Robert:
There is one good thing about Republicans - they are not Democrats.
I just don't like the mixture of church and state that some Republicans endorse.
Joe,
Should we start kicking out churches who allow photos of prideful people, smokers, liars, gossipers, non-tithers in their church directory?
BTW, do you think Jesus thinks this is good news?
Grady
"Should we start kicking out churches who allow photos of prideful people, smokers, liars, gossipers, non-tithers in their church directory?"
Spurgeon smoked
L's
Now I don't know this but I get the impression that your story about Matthew Shepherd was intended to convey the idea that voting to oust Broadway Baptist was similar. In other words, it was a hate filled or hate motivated vote. I'm sorry but there is no way to compare a violent crime to the exercise of church discipline. If it was not your intent to convey that then simply disregard this comment.
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "WHERE ARE THE MEN WHO CAME TO YOU TONIGHT? BRING THEM OUT TO US SO THAT WE CAN HAVE SEX WITH THEM."
Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah--from the LORD out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities
Not meaning to be to harsh, but the question of what would Jesus do or what would God do and so many other things of twisting scripture have been said.
Here we have the only place in the Bible where God Destroyed 2 complete cities and the sin named is sex perverted FROM WHAT HE DESIGNED.
It is repeated in Romans and is called unnatural.
I pray that all who choose to deviate from an unnatural sin will repent and turn from that unnatural sin.
It matters not of anything else or any other argument. It is a choice or God would not have condemened so many and made it plain in the Old and New Testament.
All other arguments are moot.
AO
Hi JOE BLACKMON,
It's me, L's
Actually, what I wrote is a quote from the Gospel of Saint Matthew;
then the story of Matthew Shepherd's death,
but right there at the end is a part of a prayer that is two-thousand years old:
"Christe eleison".
It means: 'Christ, have mercy.'
I don't know why I wrote all this, Joe.
I truly don't. Except that what happened today fills me with so such sadness.
You know that word 'discipline'?
I know that word. I had to 'discipline' my classes, and I was GOOD at it. That word means 'to teach', not to "punish".
But I didn't start 'good at it'.
I was given a little wisdom from a five year old, first.
One time, at the beginning of my first year teaching in the inner city, I came home and sat down in my family room and 'vented' in front of my husband and children.
In a loud voice, I went on about the 'kids' not knowing how to behave, having poor hygiene, not having manners, using inappropriate language, on and on . . . UNTIL,
my son Joel, then about five years old, put his hand up, and very gently said this:
'Mom, Mom, TEACH them . . . . '
I got very quiet.
I looked at my little boy and I knew he was right. How could my young students know any better, if no one had cared to help them?
And no one had cared.
My 'frustration' was not what the ghetto children needed, and they sure didn't need my rejection. They needed ME to care for them and to teach them, with the same compassion and love that I had given my own dear children.
And I went back into that school,
and I 'taught them', with great love. And they learned . . . :)
What's the point?
Sometimes in frustration, we would rather walk away from our responsibilities to reach out and to 'teach them'.
But we CAN really 'discipline' in the true sense of The Word: with love for them, and care, and compassion, like the Disciples felt for the sinners they encountered and converted on The Way.
No, Joe. I'm not blaming anyone.
I am just filled with such a sense of sadness that an opportunity was given up today to serve Him.
Somewhere there is a young 'Matthew Shepherd' who needs a Christian friend. I will pray for him tonight. But I will pray, also, this:
'LORD, LET OUR EYES BE OPENED.'
And I will pray also this ancient prayer of my faith:
"Christ, have mercy."
On ALL of us. On all of us together.
Love you dearly, L's
L's
Actually, I know what Christe Eleison means. I sang quite a bit in college and a lot of choral music is sacred. Bach, Rutter, etc. I can read Latin but most of the time I have no idea what I'm saying. I picked up bits and pieces.
Also, it's funny you should mention the broader meaning of discipline. I made just that point in a sermon I preached Sunday from Hebrews 12.
Love you too
Wade,
you are one sick dude. How in the name of all that is wholly can you possibly subscribe to the juvenile belief system you espouse. Come on! Christ died and 3 days later he was risen from the dead. You don't REALLY think that happened, do you?
As to your hate for homos, it seems the antithesis of your so-called christian beliefs. Oh well, I guess bigotry disguised by christianity is okay. I'm sure god doesn't object.
Doncha just luvvit when someone who disbelieves in any moral authority above humans and hates religion lectures Christians on morality? Irony can be quite entertaining. (Or is that hypocrisy instead of irony?)
Scott - I applaud you for your stand and for your candor. To think that we should disengage our relationship with someone who has sin in their lives... who does not? I do. You do. Every reader and pastor on here does as well. The difference is the secrecy of the sin. Thank you for showing "Jesus with skin on" to your members, ALL of them. Thank you for being so open and honest with us on this blog. If our lives were open books and drive-in movie screens, well, we'd all be ashamed of SOMETHING.
I'm sad at how we pick and choose the sins that are to be exposed and excommunicated from our churches.
Like you said, we allow so many others to openly have their sin and sometimes even applaud it.
In Jacksonville, Florida, the great Mac Brunson has excommunicated, by way of trespass warnings, a family that served fathfully in the church for over 20years because Mac couldn't take it that the man disagreed with him.
Mac Brunson, he is full of pride, arrogance and is boastful. He bullies his flock.
Anger is his method.
View this clip for a sample:
http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/lifestyle/watch/v18655144yzr99j5d#
I think Mac needs to be "Disfellowshipped" for his angry bullying of his flock.
There's a sin here somewhere.
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