There is a former Southern Baptist pastor who operates a blog that often has yours truly as the subject matter. For some reason my writing, including blog posts and comments, seems to infuriate him. The publisher of my new book, Smith & Helwys, contacted me today and told me this former pastor had requested that they send to him a free digital copy of my new book Hardball Religion so that he could "review" it before publication. They obliged his request and apologized to me today for not letting me know what they had done. As far as my thinking goes, the publisher has a right to do whatever they please to increase sales of the book. It is normal policy to send out pre-publication copies to multiple people for review. My only regret expressed to Smyth & Helwys was that this particular pastor didn't have to pay for the privilege of slamming me. Grin.Today, this former Southern Baptist pastor wrote a comment about current Southern Baptist pastors, and if the comment is read in context, it is most certainly a comment directed at me personally and my writing in particular. The comment reads:
This wretched, condemning chatter which floods the internet--unfortunately many time by pastors bored because there's no one to minister to, no one to lead, no one to mentor, no one to pray for, no one to see in the hospital, no programs to plan, no vision to dream, no sermon to prepare, no book to read, so they obsessively blog--in the form of "engagement" must come to a close.
It's obvious that this former pastor wants me to feel shame for my writing. I'm interested in your opinion. What say you?
In His Grace,
Wade
173 comments:
L's and other Catholics who read my blog,
I do not wish to offend you by the picture of the nun. Frankly, if I could have found a picture of a Southern Baptist pastor with a similar expression I would have used it.
But SBC pastors usually only like to be photographed smiling - while we put the knife in from behind.
:)
I have listened many times in the past to Mother Angelica and Father Benedict Groeschel of EWTN.
I would encourage this SBC pastor who penned that comment to actually watch and listen to Pastor Wade's sermons and see Pastor Wade's Church to see how Pastor Wade ministers to his members.
But again, I have seen in lot of SBC blogs where they castigate Pastor Wade.
All I can say is, Pastor Wade is doing his duty and ministering to his Church first and then when he finds time, he blogs. It's actually possible, Pastor Wade has good sense of focus. I have noticed people who are focussed in doing one thing at a time, excel in those tasks, and they have spare time to do other tasks. When one is not focussed, it takes much longer to finish basic tasks. Just an opinion.
I just want to say that you have blessed me in many ways through blogging. It is just another tool God has allowed you to use. As I have continued to read, I have continued to grow and learn where our convention could be headed, I have developed a greater heart for our missionaries and pastors who too often become isolated and alienated, and my commitment to the Great Commission has been strengthened as you have graciously brought issues to life. At the same time, I have found myself having to repent of behaviors and attitudes I have that are inconsistent with the gospel, to wit, these same attitudes and behaviors can been seen in various levels of our denomination.
I pray God will continue to use you as you faithfully serve Him!
Wade,
Well, without knowing any more than what's already been revealed, I'm guessing that the man who slammed you.....
Didn't have anyone to mentor...
Didn't have anyone to pray for...
Didn't have any vision to dream, unless we're suppose to stop seeing or dreaming when we retire, or whatever, and....
Didn't have a book to read.
And, of course, he used a blog to slam you.
It's been said that the loudest boo's oft come from the cheapest seats.
AND .. you gotta know we grow'em tough in Birmingham. :)
Thy Peace,
I know nothing about you, but I must say, your comments have been encouraging and enlightening to me. I have learned a great deal from you. Thanks for your kind words.
Pastor Ricky,
Ditto above. Thanks for your kind comment.
Bob,
You make me laugh. Thanks.
Wade
It's obvious that this former pastor wants me to feel shame for my writing. I'm interested in your opinion.
Well, they're not particularly religious words, but since you asked, the first words through my head were, "Well, he can just bite me, then." Meaning your critic, not you.
Since you asked. :)
Dear WADE,
I am laughing so hard, I could hardly read your post. HOW did you find a picture of Sister Ruth, the Librarian at my old prep school? That is HER, I tell you.
Oh, funny. I needed a laugh, and you have DONE IT THIS TIME. :)
About Sister Ruth, God love her, a story:
my dear father (a very proper Catholic gentleman) had a habit of saying 'Kelley's Pool Hall' just before he picked up the phone.
Only one day, he got it reversed.
He picked up the phone, said, loudly "KELLEY'S POOL HALL", and then his face went totally white. Then he turned red.
It was SISTER RUTH !
She was calling me to ask if I could cover some special duties for the Sanctuary Society.
My father was MORTIFIED. I don't think he ever got ever it.
But the next day, I had to go to school and face dear Sister Ruth, the most fearsome nun in the whole school. NO sense of humor. You never wanted to let her down.
Oh Wade, I didn't know what to expect. I need not have worried.
She never referred to the incident, but she did look at me a little bit strangely.
Thanks for the laugh. Love, L's
P.S. I left you a note on the other post regarding your request.
BTW, something healing happened there on that post , something to do with 'elephants', God is good. :)
Why does that pastor, for that matter any pastor get to review your book?
Sounds like he has a lot of time on his hands :)
I can't wait to get my copy.
Blessings to you and yours Wade.
wade,
Its time to call dr. Phil for help with this wacko former pastor who has lost his sheep and doesn’t know where to find HIMSELF.
Pastor Burleson,
Dr. Phil here. My comments are removed from this blog faster than my wife's dog poop on the living room rug. Allow me, the pyschiatrist for the SBC, to point out that YOU asked for thoughts on this subject matter. So, don't ask the doctor for medicine unless you are willing to swallow it.
Unfortunately, my staff and I cannot find who wrote the diatribe in question. Why, kind sir, did you not reveal his identity? The usual suspects would be Malcolm Yawnell, Robin Fostergrants, Wes Kidney, Peter Bumpkin, Dave Miller Light, Steve "Australia" Gross, Ron Fibits Jr., Scott Boredom or another dozen or so easily irritable bloggers suffering from self delusions.
Could you, Pastor Burleson, identify us who wrote the rant in question? The good doctor likes to be precise in his assessments.
Dr. Phil
Wade: You already know how I feel. Keep blogging until you feel God is telling you to stop. Our church has two services, a thriving Sunday School department(shown by the fact I have to get there early for a good parking space), and several ministries run by members of the church. You also teach a new members class on top of all the other things you do.
I would give the same words of advice that you have given me. Write what's on your heart.
No one should review the book that wasn't there. That narrows the field considerably. :)
Pastor Wade: keep blogging. Keep telling the truth about the institution.
But for those of us outside Enid, is there a link or blog where we can read your sermons or Bible teaching also? My computer is too slow to stream video and I turn the sound off and am online only when dgd sleeps.
Tell us what is happening in the SBC--but don't forget to tell us more about Jesus!
Linda, who is gonna try to get through other than as anonymous, but no promises.
It is not dealing with the guy that slammed you but I found it interesting that I asked the same question of myself today: Should a Minister of the Gospel Have a Blog?
Here is my response:
Cinderella Gets to the Big Dance...But Should She Dress Up?
Dr Phil,
As a good wine bibing, slot machine arm pulling Baptist...I'll make book that it was Peter Bumpkin. My prescription for him (Peter Bumpkin) is as my now grown childeren used to say "nanny nanny booboo stick your head in doodoo"
I think it means the publisher should send me a copy of your book to review instead! {large sarcastic grin, in jest}
I'm married to a wonderful geek scientist, and he has so often commented about how he enjoys being a teacher but feels he is too introverted to be well-suited to be an elder. He would settle for nothing less than to be the best of the best of elder or pastor, and we see this office of one that truly devoted to caring for so many sheep. The opportunities to minister are plenty and the good workers are few in our experience. I can't imagine these best of men ever being bored.
That's a compliment to Pastor Wade, if anyone is wondering, as he is someone I speculate is devoted to ministry all the time. If his kids were still below the age of 12 and his wife was not in school, I'd wonder how he managed blogging at all. But I imagine that when his family is otherwise occupied, that is the time he uses to blog. His posts generally go online very late in the evening from what I've observed, usually after most of his parishioners would be in bed asleep.
I've been tremendously encouraged by this blog, and it has ministered much healing to me in so many ways. I am so grateful for it. Thank you for this labor.
CS Lewis asked one of his students why we read. The answer was to 'know you are not alone'.
That is why I read your blog. You are only writing about what many of us have noticed for years.
Word verification: suffero
Dr. Phil,
Jake Barker got it right.
Linda,
You might try The Sermon Link on the left side of our web page. There you will find outlines and audio of all messages.
I like your advice, too! I shall continue, by God's grace, to tell you about Jesus.
In His Grace,
Wade
Today the world wide web has turned 20.
Sci. Am.: Remembering the Day the World Wide Web Was Born
Home of Web celebrates 20th birthday looking ahead
Can we all imagine how we would be without the internet?
The internet provides an incredible opportunity to reach across geo-physical boundaries and reach people. Look at the benefits to Christ's ministries:
- Email
- Web
- Blogs
- Broadcast Church Services through the web
- podcasts: audio and video of sermons and services
- Sermon Notes
- Video/Phone Chats
In light of the above, blogging is a small subset of the internet activity. If you are already using emails, browsing the web, blogging comes naturally. And especially if you are a gifted writer, what a blessing to Christ's people.
The Power of the Pen to Effect Needed Change
Style Over Substance Destroys
Thy Peace,
Yes another great thing from Geneva!!!
The WWW
Here is another great thing that started fom that same city.
http://tinyurl.com/az6xvh
Robert I Masters
From the Southern Baptist Geneva
dr phil
peter bumkins distroyed the videos from you last comment which is over on wally's blog.
http://wallysmuseings.blogspot.com/
Dr. Phil wrote:
...or another dozen or so easily irritable bloggers suffering from self delusions.
So as a medical professional speaking with a deep understanding of psychiatry and also having the required M.D. to practice psychiatry, would you call this "Irritable Blogger Syndrome"?? And would you say that it's most likely physical cause is the underlying, OTHER IBS?
You mean to tell me the former pastor who wrote the rant is Peter Bumpkin? As we say out here in Seattle, "Good night, sweet fright!" Am I to understand Bumpkin is a former pastor? It's not former that scares me , it's pastor. You're kidding, right?
Has anybody actually listened to this guy? When you watch his YouTube self-made, self-posted, The Passion that Pushes Me it looks like if he'd push a little harder that which is pinched in by his cheeks would slide on out. He who loves to talk well nigh an hour AND VIDEOTAPE IT HIMSELF needs help. Bumpkin doesn't even notice the (%#*$) squeeking chair he obsessively-compulsively rotates in like he's the head on the girl of The Exorcist. Call me Bumpkin. I can help.
Gregw.h.
I like your style.
Wade,
While I have disagreed with some of your statements/conclusions, I certainly support your right to say them, not to mention that I enjoy reading and digesting them and occasionally commenting in response to them.
That said, I wonder when that pastor found the time to write his condemning comments regarding bloggers?
Jesse
Mother Angelica, the nun in the picture, is the founder of the EWTN television network, which airs programs reflecting Catholic themes, and has done so for over 30 years. Some time ago she suffered a stroke resulting in partial facial paralyses, and other impediments. If she somehow happens on to this post, and sees her picture, she will chuckle.
DLP
Jesse,
Good thoughts. Thanks.
Phil,
Be nice. I committed to you and others not to remove your comments. Please make me not regret my decision.
Wally,
I wondered what happened to those videotapes. Thank for the link. Why do you think Bro. Peter removed them?
Wade,
Never commented before, but always enjoy reading your blog. Keep up the good work! Your blog is like a vineyard producing fresh fruit. Jealous critics come in and squash your grapes attempting to make raisins not realizing they are standing in your wine press turning your fruit into delicious wine. In my opinion, your critics are the yang to your yin.
Jeff
Robert: Thanks for the links. In the past two posts, I see a change in your comments. God bless you, brother in Christ.
Thy Peace nailed it. The Internet is a mode of communication and a wonderful two-way street for discussion and debate. Imagine if it had been available to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Or even Christ.
Please, please PLEASE continue to blog, Pastor Wade. If i had known someone needed to review your book I would have volunteered!! I am looking forward to reading it. My only regret is that my dad (recently called Home) will not have the opportunity to read it. He SOOO loved to listen to you Teach (preach) when they visited, and loved reading your other writings which i shared with him often.
an Emanuel-ite
My opinion:
Free country-say what you want. I may not agree (and often don't) with what you have to say but I respect the fact that you appear to sincerely stand on your convictions. If only so many of those convictions weren't wrong. Haa haa haa
If its the guy (bob), my advice to you is to ignore this guy. I have engaged him in a couple things and it is a black hole of wasted time. He has way too much time on his hands.
Hashman
Oh, and as an aside:
One of my college professors when I was getting my music degree actually knew The Peddlin' Nun in your picture on this post. She played organ up at the Ave Maria Grotto in Culman, Alabama at the little chapel up there. She taught counterpoint and if you were not going to graduate that semester she ALWAYS gave you an incomplete and made you do work over the summer to finish the class.
True story.
Wade,
We would absolutely love to have a copy of your book for review on sbc IMPACT!
See what you can do ... :)
They will do what they can to keep this book from gaining traction. Seems the blog is working or they would ignore you.
Lydia
PS: I pre ordered the book. Will be delighted to write a review as a woman who cannot teach men in the SBC. :o)
brett wrote:
The Internet is a mode of communication and a wonderful two-way street for discussion and debate. Imagine if it had been available to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Or even Christ.
"Everytime I look at you
I don't understand
Why you let the things you did
Get so out of hand
You'd have managed better
If you'd had it planned
Now why'd you choose such a backward time
And such a strange land?
If you'd come today
You could have reached a whole nation
Israel in 4 B.C.
Had no mass communication"
--Superstar, Tim Rice
The Weber/Rice rock opera is, obviously, not a faithful rendition of the biblical story, but it does ask age-old questions and presents "under the sun" style answers to those questions. Hopefully Wade's readers will tolerate this reference as an example of "imagining" how mass media--or the Internet--in theory would have changed how Jesus's message reached the world.
Greg Harvey
Hey I voted for Grace & Truth to make it out of the first round at SBC Voices so obviously I support your right to speak.
When are you going to Twitter?
Wade.
If you really want to replace the nun's picture on this post, here are a couple of photos that look more like some of my SBC preacher friends:
SBC Pastor?
SBC Evangelist?
:)
Twittering -- snort!
Now that is something done by those who genuinely fit the description of "bored because there's no one to minister to, no one to lead, no one to mentor, no one to pray for, no one to see in the hospital, no programs to plan, no vision to dream, no sermon to prepare, no book to read..."
What say me? I'm tired of the haters...
I see haters everywhere...
Seriously, what is wrong with people?
Ick
Tom Kelley,
Your funny.
Geoff Baggett,
I'm giving them your name.
Linda,
Thanks!
Kathey,
I don't know!
Wade,
Nothing that Peter does surprises me anymore. I learned that firsthand when he took it as his personal mission to scuttle my candidacy for SBC President from scouring years of comments and blogs for anything that would be unflattering to me and feeding it to state baptist newspapers to telephoning the person who was to give my nominating speech and encourage him NOT to nominate me. Can you imagine anyone with the gall to contact Johnny Hunt's nominator and suggest that bad news was coming out about Johnny and that his reputation would be threatened by nominating him?
Are these the actions of a brother in Christ? What kind of person does these things?
Talk about having too much time on one's hands. The other BI guys who pulled the same stuff have apologized to me for their actions, however, no apology has ever been offered from Peter.
As far as I'm concerned, Peter has no credibility within the Christian community. His actions have spoken volumes louder than his smart aleck words ever could.
One wonders why someone who went to seminary and spent time pastoring is no longer pastoring. I'm sure there is more to Peter's story than has been revealed, but unlike Peter, I'm not going to waste my time obsessively looking for ways to destroy him as he has tried to do to me.
My advice for you, Wade, is not to give Peter the satisfaction of a post about him on your blog. It isn't worth the time. Sad, but true.
Les
Dear WADE,
Please don't replace the nun's picture. I love it.
If I could just look at it at STOP LAUGHING long enough to seriously read the post, I could comment on the post properly,
March to your OWN drummer Wade.
You are being guided by good angels to help some people who have been hurt. If you fight against evil, you can expect attacks. But fight against it anyway. Don't give up.
Think of all those churches in the SBC with families:
with old people for whom 'church' is such a life line and a blessing;
for the young children who are nourished with the Word.
Think of what would happen, if the spirit of evil continued to flourish and innocents continued to be harmed.
Do it for those vulnerable people in churches, who cannot get up and walk out easily and 'choose another church'.
They 'need' a church home so badly because the lives of the very old and of the very young would be impacted the most, if the SBC loses the spirit of Christ's love. In your darkest moments, think about the aged and think about the children. Hang in there for their sake.
You fight the ancient enemy. But you do not fight alone.
The 'pen' is mightier than the sword: blog on.
Christiane,
Thanks for the great comment. It truly is encouragement to my soul. I look forward to your Anne Rice book review. When you write, send it to me via email and you will be one of only three people allowed to guest post at Grace and Truth to you!
Blessings,
Wade
Les,
Are you serious? That's really sad.
Maybe worse than sad.
Wade
As far as I'm concerned, Peter has no credibility within the Christian community. His actions have spoken volumes louder than his smart aleck words ever could.
Les, I could not agree more.
Man, I just got through watching Peter Lumpkins self-made video, linked here by Dr. Phil.
Somebody help me out. Is he being serious or is he being funny (goofy)? I honestly can't tell.
If he is being serious, that videotape gives me the creeps.
JWA
You just saw the real wacko!
DR PHIL AND THE REAL WACKY “WACKO”
http://wallysmuseings.blogspot.com/2009/02/dr-phil-and-real-wacky-wacko.html
LIN wrote this: 'CS Lewis asked one of his students why we read. The answer was to 'know you are not alone'."
Lin, if you are interested in the works of C.S. Lewis, there is a WONDERFUL full-length television documentary on CD entitled:
"the Magic Never Ends"
it is narrated by Ben Kingley and has won many awards.
Check your local library for the CD, you will LOVE this documentary.
Wade,have you ever considered doing a video blog and putting it on youtube much like what James White does? I would love to see such a thing especially on hot topics.
John
When I was a small child, my father would lead our family in after-dinner devotions which always ended with prayer. It seemed my dad's prayers were so long. One evening during prayer time, I committed the cardinal sin of opening my eyes and looking around.
To my shock and surprise I saw that my younger (pesky) sister was looking right back at me! I couldn't wait to tell on her. Oh my, how she would pay for her sins. Imagine! Opening her eyes while dad was praying! She was gonna get it but good.
No sooner had my dad said "Amen" than was blurting my discovery.
"Dad, guess what?" I said breathlessly. "She [and here I pointed at my sister like a victim pointing out the suspect in a courtroom] had her eyes open during prayer!"
You know how this story ends.
My dad restrained a smile, folded his hands, looked me straight in the eyes, and quietly asked the question that condemned me as the hypocrite I was.
"Son, how do you know your sister had her eyes open during prayer if you didn't have your eyes open as well?"
That dear brother's critical blog criticism reeks of hypo-criticism.
Anon 8:57 - Now, did it ever occur to you that twitter can be used for ministry?
What comes to mind - Peter, Peter pumpkin eater!
watching the video entitled "the passion that pushes me i am reminded of two things: 1)saturday night live's "the church lady" and 2)sitting in a motel room just down the highway from the shiloh battlefield in southern tennessee watching a religion-a-thon...and being told that if i donated at least $25 to this religion-a-thon i could go downtown and pick up a case of marshmallows. a whole case.
As a good wine bibing, slot machine arm pulling Baptist..................
HEY JAKE, WANNA GO FISHIN' ?
wtreat@centurytel.net
Gram,
Now that's funny.
Not your comment. The fact you actually wasted your time watching the video.
:)
If anyone does in fact Twitter, look me up:
http://twitter.com/NativeVermonter
Wade,
I think it's certainly acceptable for a Minister of the Gospel to have a blog. It's nice to have ministers who have warm hearts and occasionally act like real people, too (I mean that humorously, but also to prove a point). And most of the ministers I have known are like that, but sadly, not all of them. I sincerely do wish that some Ministers of the Gospel I have known personally truly realized that they are what they are by the grace of God and by His grace alone. Humility and charity in spiritual leaders are great gifts to the church, at least in my own non-professional, non-ministerial viewpoint. I know this comment is very generic, but I hope it's relevant to the title of your post.
Wade,
Your blog has caused the church I serve and me to reconsider our intention of parting ways with the SBC. Be steadfast, unmoveable, always abounding in your work for your labor is not in vain.
Brother Pastor
I would tell you the same as I told Debbie Kaufman on her blog eearlier today: Don't let 'em get you down.
"Frankly, if I could have found a picture of a Southern Baptist pastor with a similar expression I would have used it."
I've got a whole collection if you're really interested.
Wade,
It is definitely okay for a pastor to have a blog. I know you feel you have a cause to fight for and that is why you blog. But honestly as much as you post, respond to comments, monitor, etc. You have to admit it is an easy target for others to attack you on. I mean either your Pastoral duties, family, study, reading, or golf game must be taking somewhat of a hit. I'm not saying it's your Pastoral duties, but something definitely has to give. You know what I mean. But I would agree it's not really for us to judge. It's your church, your wife, kids, country club buddies, and ultimately YOU to decide whether other areas are suffering to much. If not keep blogging, but remember we do like to hear about some of the good things the SBC is doing. Remember we are all apart of this machine. We give our money, time, thoughts, words, prayers, and some even our lives serving in and through the SBC. So it's nice to know it isn't in vain. I do believe you feel this way too. It just doesn't always get portrayed this way on your blog. Obviously you post what you post to get reactions and readers. If you only praised the SBC, then your "message" wouldn't get heard. But anyway, that's just my thoughts.
Jim Halpert
All I could think of watching (about 30 seconds) of that video was this.
Isn't a writing a blog against blogging a bit of a . . . contradiction?
"Today the world wide web has turned 20.
...
Can we all imagine how we would be without the internet?"
Praise the Lord for Al Gore!
Jim Halpert,
My complaint against Pastor Burleson is that he doesn't comment on his blogposts near enough. I read this blog regularly and about the only time Pastor Burleson comments is on Fridays and weekends. I just assumed he was busy doing other things. Guess we just see things differently.
Here is the source of the "wretched" comment -- in context -- about a third of the way down the page.
Wade,
Thanks for your email stating your deletion on my response to your request, "I'm interested in your opinions. What say you?"
Please tell me your guidelines for what is an acceptable opinion. I do not mind observing your rules, but I can't if you keep them secret.
What did who say about you on what blog memtioned above?
Your post on Fred was excellent.
Hiram
Psa.23:1
Here is the source of the "wretched" comment -- in context -- about a third of the way down the page.
This is the direct link to the comment.
Here is the whole sordid blog posts:
Peter Lumpkins: SBC Tomorrow: Bob Ross on Wade Burleson: Splat! Splat!!
Bob L. Ross: Reformed Flyswatter: Burleson -- A Landmarker? - Has Pastor Wade Burleson Become A Landmarker?
selahV Today: EMAILERS, BLOGGERS, AND...ETHICAL FOOLS
All to do with an email of Bob Ross added by Pastor Wade in a comment to Peter Lumpkins blog, which was deleted, and then his ip address blocked, and then his proxy server ip address blocked.
What a sad waste!
Let's see if I got this right: This pastor commented on a blog about pastors who blog. I guess its O.K. to read blogs, just not write them.
Thanks BBC,for the link. I have read Selahv's comments on other blogs, too, for a while now and have come to the conclusion she is sweet as pie if you are agree with her but a shark if you do not. A female Lumpkins is the way I would describle her and she is a big fan of Peter's.
But, I think posting her question to Debbie in that comment stream was quite relevant. These folks are mean and scary which is why I am anonymous. And it is obvious they hate Wade.
Harem Spit,
Dude. Go back to Dubai.
Dr. Phil
Peter F. Lumpkins and some SBC lady named SelahV - two peas in a pod. Thy Peace, thanks for the links. It seems the scrutiny coming their way is a little too much. Thy Peace, your links are now dead. The "wretched" comment by Peter F. Lumpkins, the accusation that a woman named Deborah K (a member of Wade's church) had not the gifts of the Spirit of God, and both Peter's and SelahV's asinine, snide and bitter comments when challenged on their ungodly behavior have been deleted. These folks are classic. They lie. They change time stammps, They spew venom, but they delete it all when publicly scrutiny comes there way. Gee Whiz.
SelahV has a new post up The Day After The Storm.
In it she says, We can probably all give testimony of times we've faced emotional storms. We can share the heartache we've felt when falsely accused, wrongfully used, or verbally abused.
Knock, knock. Anybody home? SelahV, you there?
Listen girl, don't go throw a pity party for yourself after you delete the comments that will let everyone see who it is that was really doing the abusing. Your words and attitude yesterday were as un-Christlike as anything I've read in a long time. My comment was posted on your site yesterday and called you out. It's now gone as all are those things you wrote that reveal your charcter, and that "wretched" comment Peter affirming you and slamming pastors.
You can play the pity game all you want, but those of us who read what you wrote yesterday know the truth. You are one angry lady on the inside, and when you don't like, it seeps through your sieve.
From a woman without fear,
Rhonda Wells
Reading these comments is better than watching Saturday morning cartoons.
Thy Peace,
Thanks for the links. I must have gotten to them before they were deleted because I read them all. Now I can't get back to them. Anyway, those people are nutso. You're right. A sad waste.
selahV Today: EMAILERS, BLOGGERS, AND...ETHICAL FOOLS, post is deleted now. I am unable to find it in Google cache.
Wow! Thy Peace enough!,
Just a little exposure from you and those Baptist Identity bloggers act like Nixon's office staff when the Watergate Committee was knocking at their door.
Thy Peace, you blog anymore with links to their trash you may actually rid the world of all Internet garbage!
I really don't get it.
Why are they deleting everything?
What gives?
Seriously, why?
Because their emormous stupidity in writing the stuff they write is not exceeded by their inherent need for self-preservation and the knowledge that only an idiot would leave them up for all to read and banish all doubt about the condition of their mental state.
How's that, Suzie?
Anonymous,
Thanks.
My IP was blocked from selahv's blog just this morning.
I went over to Lumpkins blog and saw her nasty comment to Debbie asking her what fruits of the spirit she thinks she possess... then went over to her blog and saw her castigating Wade for mentioning that nasty comment of hers. In her world, it was unChristian to mention a blog comment she made on another blog on her comment stream. These folks are nuts.
They have one set or rules for themselves and another for others.
"selahV Today: EMAILERS, BLOGGERS, AND...ETHICAL FOOLS, post is deleted now. I am unable to find it in Google cache."
I figured that would happen, so for those of you who missed it I present for your reading... uh... pleasure...
EMAILERS, BLOGGERS, AND...ETHICAL FOOLS
Wade, Thy Peace, Dr. Phil, and others,
Whenever you find something like this that has the potential of mysteriously vanishing, save it and shoot me a copy or alert me to it BEFORE you post something about it. In the case of videos or very large files, alert me and I'll snag it. (E-mail address is in my profile.) I'll be happy to preserve it for posterity!
Note this in one of her comments to Wade in the deleted post:
"ade, how you read my comment at Peter's is not germane here at my blog. What you've accused me of and described me of being, is germane to this stream, even though it had nothing to do with my post today. So, no, I will not delete it."
But then, she deleted it.
And it seems her rules are that you cannot quote her from another source on her own blog. (Even though Wade's quote WAS germane. That was the problem. It was embarassingly germane.)
Anonymous,
Here is the quote about Debbie on Peter Lumpkin's blog:
Comment #32.
Debbie, I'm curious and very serious. Do you happen to know what gifts of the Spirit you possess? selahV
Posted by: selahV | Friday, March 13, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Debbie had challenged Peter for removing two comments that totally and compeletely refute Peter's post. SelahV's comment seemed to be an attempt to attack Debbie and keep people from reading what Debbie wrote.
Wade goes to SelahV's blog and challenges SelahV about her comment concerning Debbie, writing that it was inappropriate and unChristian to imply somebody is without gifts of the Spirit.
SelahV furiously writes back that Wade should have "confronted" her on Peter's blog, only to be told by Wade his IP address was blocked.
SelahV then launches into Pastor Wade even more. The more she wrote, the angrier she got. It was hilarious! It's in that stream that Peter makes his "wretched" pastor comment.
This morning Thy Peace linked to it to show the sad state of affairs.
Now, poof. It's all gone.
Christians sometimes are their own worst enemies.
New BBC Forum!
Good job.
Thy Peace and BBC, You are only showing us how they operated before blogs...and got away with it. They simply denied it, hid it and attacked the messenger using their positions. But with their own blogs, deletions, time stamp shenanigans, etc, we are seeing the REAL fruit.
Good work. As more is becoming known we can be more wise.
"Now, did it ever occur to you that twitter can be used for ministry?"
Here is a fine example of Twitter being used in "ministry" -- by a twit. (Read a few days' worth of entries and you'll see what I mean.) Maurilio Amorim is a "church marketing consultant" who helps churches "create their brand" and counts among his clients, Mac Brunson and FBC Jacksonville.
So everyone can see their tactics, I reproduce the comment stream on SelahV's post that led to this post. Please, Pastor Wade, do not delete this. I believe it is relevant.
SelahV wrote the following short comment to Debbie Kaufman on Peter Lumpkin's blog
_____________________________
Debbie, I'm curious and very serious. Do you happen to know what gifts of the Spirit you possess? selahV
_____________________________
Folks, if you want, you can go to the comment stream in Peter's blog and read for yourself comment #32 and see how completely bizarre and out of the blue SelahV's comment is to Debbie.
Pastor Wade responded on SelahV's blog, challenging SelahV's comment to his church member. All comemnts on SelahV's blog, beginning with Pastor Wade's defense of his church member, have since been deleted. I am restoring them here thanks to New BBC Forum's retrieval of the comment stream from cache. The comments will be numbered 1 through 15 so you can easily follow. Read and draw your own conclusions. It's fascinating stuff.
Comment 1: Pastor Wade's comment to SelahV challenging her words to Debbie.
Posted by Wade Burleson | March 13, 2009 at 11:47 AM
SelahV, there are times your posts and comments display Christian wisdom and grace, and there are a few times your comments are biting, sarcastic and in my opinion, ungodly. It is my custom to ignore the latter due to my chivalrous upbringing and high view of women.
However, your most recent comment on the blog of Pete Lumpkin caught my eye and could not be ignored. It was made to one of my church members and it is posted below to refresh your memory:
Debbie, I'm curious and very serious. Do you happen to know what gifts of the Spirit you possess? selahV
Since you profess a serious desire to know, I shall respond with a serious answer. She has the gift of teaching and the gift of prophecy. She is extremely bright, and very knowledgeable in the Word of God. Like her pastor, she defends the underdog, and will challenge those beset with the disease of spiritual arrogancy - particularly those Christians who delight in implying a brother or sister in Christ may be bereft of spiritual gifts.
Blessings to you, and Lord willing, if I have misunderstood what I perceive to be an arrogant comment, you will forgive me in advance. If not, then I hope you will practice the meek and quiet spirit you so advocate.
In His Grace,
Wade
Comment 2 Posted by Peter Lumpkins, from which comes the "wretched" pastors comment
Posted by: peter | March 13, 2009 at 12:16 PM
Mr. Burleson,
You provocatively post, "[SelahV] there are times your posts and comments display Christian wisdom and grace, and there are a few times your comments are biting, sarcastic and in my opinion, ungodly."
To comment on SelahV's post, inserting a comment about which
(a) possesses not one word in it necessarily implying any wrongful, ill-will whatsoever (b) castigates her commenting in one sweeping movement from "Christian wisdom and grace" to xplicitly "ungodly," and that without the least bit of actual evidence to substantiate it, exists, for me, unloosed, godless chatter that every Christian blog should ban.
Do not think sir this bullying nonsense can be successful outside those glued to your girdle.If you want to discuss ideas, fine. But keep your godless insults to the confines of your own blog.
With that, I am...
Peter
Dear SelahV,
My deepest apologies for the stern comment above. I'll understand if you need to weed it out.
However, somewhere this wretched, condemning chatter which floods the internet--unfortunately many times by pastors bored because there's no one to minister to, no one to lead, no one to mentor, no one to pray for,no one to see in the hospital, no programs to plan, no vision to dream, no sermon to prepare, no book to read, so they obsessively blog--in the form of "engagement" must come to a close.
Grace, my sister
With that, I am...
Peter
Comment 3 Posted by SelahV to Pastor Wade
Posted by: selahV | March 13, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Wade, I hate to be the bearer of sad tidings, but you have absolutely "misunderstood" the intent of my words. In them I asked a question. I simply wanted to know if she knew what her gifts were. In fact, one of the gifts you have mentioned is one in which I've discerned may be one of hers. However, I wondered if she knew what hers were, not if you knew what they were.
However, for you to come here to my blog, for the first time in my blogging experience that I can ever recall, and accuse me of arrogance when the subject you mention could have been just as easily addressed in the site from which you copied my comment is truly sad. You come, not to talk about my post. You come to attack and paste a comment, that I assure you, I could care less if the whole world knows I wrote.
Otherwise, I wouldn't have written it. I thought it through when I wrote it. That's okay, though.
You see, I know what my mind was thinking. I know what my heart was thinking. And so does my Savior. So, for whatever purpose you find it to come here and dump your wad of disdain, I pray you've met your goal and then some. If not, come back again. Only next time, come back with a real apology without the caveats of "if, but and "your perception", and we may be able to reconcile a difference for all the Christian world to see. If not, I will have tried.
selahV
Comment 4 Posted by SelahV to Peter.
Posted by: selahV | March 13, 2009 at 12:31 PM
Oh, Peter. Wade is just being Wade. Always assuming, presuming, jumping to conclusions without real information, evidence or facts. I understand why you felt it necessary to comment. Am surprised you were even here reading my post with all you have on your plate right now. That's the unbelieveable irony in this.
Now, I'm not quite sure that Wade even read my post. Hey, Wade, did you? If not, how come you chose to post your comment here instead of emailing me? I can assure you that I wouldn't have posted your email for all the world to see. Of course, I probably wouldn't have answered it either. So I guess, you did the right thing in coming here. I might not have been back to Peter's. selahV
Comment 5 From Luke to SelahV.
Posted by: Luke | March 13, 2009 at 01:20 PM
Mrs. V,
I was going to write something, but since I changed my mind, I am simply writing that I am not going to write what I had intended to write.
Until a more docile moment...blessings. Luke
Comment 6 From SelahV to Luke.
Posted by: selahV | March 13, 2009 at 01:26 PM
Oh Luke, you are a hoot! I needed that. I'm laughing my head off. You crack me up! You really do. selahV
Comment 7 From Pastor Wade to SelahV.
Posted by: Wade Burleson | March 13, 2009 at 01:36 PM
With your explanation above, then please forgive me for my misunderstanding. Debbie Kaufman was challenging Pete Lumpkin and the multiple inaccuracies in his post, and since the comment stream and Pete's post had nothig to do with spiritual gifts, your comment did read to me in a manner different than what you profess you intended.
I accept your word and seek your forgiveness for misunderstanding your motives. Feel free to delete my comment above, as you might wish to delete your comment on Pete's blog to alleviate any possible misunderstanding by others.
Thanks, and God's blessings to you,
Wade
Comment 8 SelahV's biting and lengthy response to Pastor Wade.
Posted by: selahV | March 13, 2009 at 04:06 PM
Wade,
Can you not just apologize for what you do? Please don't come here with explanatory caveats. I'm not interested. Really. I can read the comment stream at Peter's. I know what was being said at Peter Lumpkins' (with an "s"), and if my readers here choose to go there, they can find him at http://peterlumpkins.typepad.com and read for themselves what was said and how "ungodly" my comment was in a comment stream free of discussion on spiritual gifts. Folks can determine for themselves if I am "beset with the disease of arrogancy" and was "implying your church member was bereft of spiritual gifts." And I suppose, now, you'll never know why I asked her the question in the stream, or how I considered it germane, will you?
To be honest, Wade, I am truly surprised that you, a pastor, didn't seek to engage me for what you deemed "spiritual arrogancy" and "ungodly, biting and sarcastic" comments at the place in which you felt I committed the offense. Since I was so offensive to draw your attention in a way you could not ignore and had to address even though I was a woman, and since some of my writings and comments possess a measure of "Christian wisdom and grace", why this avenue to confront and admonish me? Why not a more discreet confrontation or approach wherein I could have assured you I had no such belief that your member was "bereft of any spiritual gifts"? Did you seek to humiliate me? To let my readership know the SelahV that you perceive me to be?
Wade, how you read my comment at Peter's is not germane here at my blog. What you've accused me of and described me of being, is germane to this stream, even though it had nothing to do with my post today. So, no, I will not delete it. I find it very informative and enlightening to anyone who happens to question (as Byroniac, Jim Champion and others) "how anyone can ever write any meanspirited things" to me. Now they can see. And I wouldn't ask Peter to delete my comment questioning Debbie from his stream either. If someone wants to confront me on the issue, I'm sure they will do so over there and I will respond in kind. Perhaps you can even join in and explain how mistaken they are.
Now, as to forgiving you? You must understand that ill feelings did not sprout from my heart with your words. I do not need to forgive you for "misunderstanding" me. We all misunderstand one another at times. That's why questions can be so useful--at least to me. But it seems to me that your apology should be for your simple act of accusation without foundation, fact, evidence or provocation.
When my 4-year-old granddaughter, HayJae yells at her 2 year-old sister and makes her cry, it doesn't matter to me that Kinsey upset her by accidently spilling the paint on her drawing. It matters only that HayJae apologize for her own actions--yelling. Perhaps that is where you and I see things so vastly different, Wade.
Accountability is for what we do wrong. Not for what we think we may or may not have done wrong. I think you were wrong to accuse me here when I wrote my comment at Peter's. I think you were wrong to judge me, not n "misunderstanding" me. I think you were wrong to say the things you did to me here. And for that alone do I think you owed me an apology.
That said, I hope you will rest easy that I hold no ill-will against you. I believe you apologized in the best way you know how to do. In the future though, if you feel you cannot possibly ignore my words, please confront me where they are spoken and you believe my alleged indiscretion and sin is committed. That way folks don't get confused. And it's a much nicer way to handle stuff.
May God's grace to you abound. SelahV
Comment 9 Pastor Wade's response to SelahV on why he didn't "confront" her on Peter's blog.
Posted by: Wade Burleson | March 13, 2009 at 04:58 PM
Selah V,
You seem concerned about the fact I didn't "confont you where your words were spoken," which, I assume, means Pete's blog.
You'll need to talk to your friend Pete about that one. He has blocked my IP address from leaving a comment since the first comment I left on his last post, a comment he also altered without my permission. That's why I came here.
I can assure you if I could have left a comment there I would have.
Have a great evening.
Wade
Comment 10 SelahV's response to Pastor Wade
Posted by: selahV | March 13, 2009 at 05:22 PM
Wade, You think I "seemed concerned"? not at all. not now. I was simply stating facts before us, my friend. And as for you not being able to log on at Peter's, because of a blocked IP? well, you didn't seem to have a problem coming back to him via another computer in comment #16 and address Ron and Pete. So, that just doesn't fly here as a valid excuse, Wade. When you want to do something bad enough and you think it is important enough, you always seem to find a way to wiggle around and get to your final destination. In this case, you came here to make accusations and insult my integrity.
Again, Wade. You are forgiven that act of childish behavior with me even if you can't admit responsibility wherein it actually lies. But don't excuse away your actions by dumping your problems with Peter over here. It's silly. Plain silly.
selahV
Comment 11 Pastor Wade's response to SelahV
Posted by: Wade Burleson | March 13, 2009 at 07:40 PM
SelahV,
The proxy server I used to post comment #16 on Pete's blog was blocked as well. Regardless, glad to hear you are not concerned anymore about why the comment challenging your statement to my church member was placed here and not on Pete's blog.
Blessings,
Wade
Comment 12 From Rhonda Wells to SelaV
Posted by: Rhonda Wells | March 13, 2009 at 07:41 PM
My my SelahV. The sweet little spirit you wish to portray seems to have flown out the window. A little passive aggressive maybe?
You call Pastor Burleson "silly" "childish"? and a "wad of disdain"? Worse, you chastize him like a hurt grandmother when you scold him for not "confronting" you on Peter's blog, only to be told Pastor Burleson is blocked by your friend Peter Lumpkins from even posting on the blog and all you do is slam Pastor Burleson more?
Jeez.
SelahV, whatever sweet spirit you want to convey to the world is lost in the mire and bitterness of your words. What's funny is I read your comment to Deborah the same way Pastor Wade did. Frankly, SelahV, your style of Christianity absolutely turns me off.
Rhonda
Comment 13 From SelahV to Rhonda
Posted by: selahV | March 13, 2009 at 08:01 PM
Rhonda, May God richly bless you with all He has in His storehouse. May His light of goodness and mercy shine ever brightly in your heart. May all your family be blessed beyond measure and may many many people be added to the Kingdom of God through your service to His Son, Jesus. In Christ's love and grace,
selahV
Comment 14 From SelahV to Pastor Wade
Posted by: selahV | March 13, 2009 at 08:00 PM
Wade, thanks for the update.
Blessings to you as well. selahV
Comment 15
From SelahV
Posted by: selahV | March 13, 2009 at 08:58 PM
All, thank you for you kind emails and words of grace and support. Given some very sage advice I am closing down this comment section for this post as it has severely digressed from the topic of the post regarding emails which should, in my opinion, should not be posted in a blog or other venue without a writer's expressed permission. That said, I will post again shortly. selahV
The comments to this entry are closed.
Thy Peace linked to this comment stream this morning. Then, the stream was deleted, despite SelahV's professed desire to leave it up for all to see.
In reading through the comments above, the attitude of SelahV and Peter is atrocious. The sad thing is, when they are called out on it, rather than repenting, they just delete.
Rhonda
On Twits...here is one of my favorite twits from Maurilio, the church marketing consultant to Mac Brunson and FBC Jax, as he twittered at the the FBC Jax pastor's conference when he was in the service where Tim Tebow spoke.
Man Crush on Tebow
Hey, John Daly, gotcha on twitter. Beth_Dunc here. Can see how people live in a different part of the country. (The desert Southwest.) :-)
Comment 9 Pastor Wade's response to SelahV on why he didn't "confront" her on Peter's blog.
Posted by: Wade Burleson | March 13, 2009 at 04:58 PM
Selah V,
You seem concerned about the fact I didn't "confont you where your words were spoken," which, I assume, means Pete's blog.
You'll need to talk to your friend Pete about that one. He has blocked my IP address from leaving a comment since the first comment I left on his last post, a comment he also altered without my permission. That's why I came here.
I can assure you if I could have left a comment there I would have.
Have a great evening.
Wade
-----------------------------------
Here is Pastor Wade's comment that was altered. The deleted portion of the comment (Bob Ross email to Pastor Wade) is here.
Now, it goes to prove that you can alter comments in both TypePad and WordPress blogs. Commenters beware!
My thanks to NASS (New BBC Open Forum) [Not A Stepford Sheep] and Rhonda.
That was a good one, Watchdog. I thought this one was quite telling, too.
Thy Peace,
Once again they have shown their true colors. Shine the light on them and they scurry like bugs. If it wasn't so pathetic it would be funny.
What's so ridiculous about Lumpkins' objection to Wade posting a "private e-mail" is that it was posted here by Bob Ross himself several years ago.
Good deal Elisabeth, I'm following you too. Twitter is pretty neat that's for sure.
Although the rest of this soap opera isn't really neat to watch. If Wade, Peter, and Selah V are all going to be in Heaven together, then they may as well start acting like it now.
Let them know us by our love for one another...
Let them know us by our love for one another...
Sat Mar 14, 03:33:00 PM 2009
That 'love' is fake if not accompianied by truth, too. Truth matters. And when deleting posts and comments, editing comments, lying about e-mails and changing time stamps occur, all the 'love' in the world won't help unless there is confession and repentance.
What you are advocating is to cover over sin of those who know better.
We are getting a bit of taste of the tactics used in the SBC for 30 years. It is so ingrained, they cannot see it. Besides, these tactics worked before blogs. All they had to do was say it was so and attack the messenger and because of their titles, they were believed.
Those days are over. Big time.
Lydia
"The publisher of my new book, Smith & Helwys, contacted me today and told me this former pastor had requested that they send to him a free digital copy of my new book Hardball Religion so that he could "review" it before publication. They obliged his request and apologized to me today for not letting me know what they had done."
So, he contacts them, gets a free book to review and does not tell you in the comment stream when the book is mentioned.. I read the comment stream and saw he was having a jolly laugh over telling you he does not need to buy the book.
Now, you know why.
What snakes the SBC breeds. This is nothing but damage control over the book for them, isn't it.
Amazing the publisher would agree to such a thing without Wade's permission. If I were Wade I would not be happy about that. I wonder if I could request a "digital" copy and have them send me one, too? Hmmm....
Wow. Been out and about and just checked the comments. Interesting change of events, but not surprising.
BBC, I confess to be a little perplexed as to why Smyth & Helwys sent to Peter a digital copy of my book without him having to pay for it. It seems Peter led them to believe his review would be widely read. They knew nothing of his vendetta until after they sent the book. They apologized to me after the fact.
Water under the bridge for me.
In His Grace,
Lydia,
Wise, wise words.
Where are you a member? Would love to have somebody with your gifts in our church.
Wade
What you are advocating is to cover over sin of those who know better.
Uhhh, no, I don't think I'm advocating that. Let me check my words again, yep, they still say: "Let them know us by our love for one another..."
Please don't tell me what I'm advocating, I was just trying to end my message with encouragment.
Wade,
I would hoipe that you would be fair to Peter in that your publisher called him just as they called me and offered to send the digital version if I would write a review.
Peter did not seek the book just as I did not seek the book! Your publisher sought us and many others.
Correction,
"called" should be emailed!
Why the heck would they call you or Peter?
that selah character needs to get a grip...my goodness! just sayin'...
Tim, did they call or email?
I only heard from Smyth and Helwys yesterday. They wanted from me recommendations for those to whom they could send the book. My understanding is they did not initiate contacting anyone, but responded to contacts or suggestions from others.
All I know is you and Peter would not have been on my suggestion list. Grin.
Somebody else may have suggested you, but twas not I.
Peter would benefit from reviewing another book: The Book
wherein, in his present state, he will no doubt find fault with God.
On the other hand . . . his encounter with The Book, might prove to be dramatic:
he might get his blinders knocked off his face and then be able to see the landscape around him in a whole New Light.
Wouldn't he be surprised !
Wade,
I recieved an email asking if I would write a review on my blog. I emailed back and shared that I would. They then sent the book digitally to me. All while I was in the Charlotte airport (within an hour or so). The email said others were being asked to do the same. This was weeks ago.
As for me not being on your list - why not. Both sides is always nice :-)!
Good point Tim!
I honestly have no problem with you reviewing it.
But, I would bet you fifty cents and a donut I know what you are going to write and I could write your review for you verbatim.
I just hope you actually read the book before you review it.
:)
Wade,
I would hate to take your fifty cents but the review is up. I actually like your writing style but was disappointed in the content or lack of in the book.
Yet as one who has written a book, I know it is not possible to please all the readers.
P.S.,
You will note I actually read it three times!
I do not do that often. So there is another positive :-)!
Wade,
I am honored...
Forgive me but there is no way I would mention my church here. Not only would the website be overloaded like Highview's when I mentioned their tactical takeover of VSBC, but my pastor would be attacked by some at SBTS demanding he 'discipline' me for my views on woman ministers even though we have several women deacons not elders (even the chair). We also allow women to teach men and have a (gasp) woman children's "minister". Not a director but a bonafide minister complete with seminary degree. We also have (gasp) congregational polity.
There is an uneasy tolerance in my church about SBTS. We DoG, Free Will, comps, egal, pre-mill, a-mill folks have decided to ignore the extrabiblical dogmatic rules and roles teaching over there and live in harmony focusing on the fundamentals..like HIS Wrath poured out on our Savior on the Cross.... for us. The important stuff like.... HE is coming back! Amen. Jesus Christ, Lord of Hosts, has not been subordinated there. Thankfully.
But there are those who sneak in every so often to spy out our liberties in Christ and seek to drive a wedge. So far, we have kept them from dividing us. Besides we have all seen the tactics used. I would not want to be responsble for bringing them down on my church. There are not many of this type of Body of Christ left that has not succumbed to cult of personality. Sad, isn't it?
Lydia
Tim, Just curious..
Where did they get your name? Did you ask them?
Lydia
Lydia,
My understanding is that they selected names from the Blog world.
Tim G said...
"Why not?"
No, I asked first. The question was why you and Peter. I would think they'd be looking for someone with credibility and objectivity. I don't see much of either in your writings.
Lydia's "i am honored..." comment:
yours is the best comment on the entire thread. i don't need to read any more. good night. :)
LENTEN REFLECTIONS:
from Eastern Orthodox Great Lent
"Do You even now, O Lord Christ,
Who have brought us to this hour, be with us and among us
by driving away from our souls
all the darkness of ignorance.
Fill us with the light
which is beyond the world,
guiding us unerringly
to the all-perfect Light
which, beyond all understanding, proceeds from the Holy Trinity.
Enlighten our minds
by the rays of Your light,
that we maybe worthy
to become children of the light.
Blot out our sins;
make white our stains ;
wash us thoroughly
that we may be become
whiter than snow
Make us worthy to stand with confidence
before the dreadful seat of judgment
and to receive Your mercies and loving-kindness
and to stand at the right hand of Your majesty;
make us wholly arrayed in Your light, for You alone
are the Giver of divine gifts."
On the book review front: There are some places you can sign up to do reviews. Then, when other publishers search the web for reviews, they find you've done some, and may offer. That's happened with me, and I don't get as many people in a month as Pastor Wade gets in an hour. So, if you do reviews just because, or if you have heavy traffic, they may email you. If you're interested in doing reviewing, you can also contact publishers and offer, and see what they send.
That being said, you shouldn't being reviewing a book if you have a personal animus against the author. Or if he's your cousin and you want his book to sell. Either one kills your credibility.
As for pastors having the time to blog, aren't we supposed to be studying and communicating God's Word? Can you not communicate it typed? And I find that I have the chance to blog on things that I don't get the chance to preach, and can also be more blunt on the blog.
And to put on your blog that pastors shouldn't blog? What should we do? Are we not supposed to be presenting God's truth wherever we can? Should we leave the blog-world to only retired preachers (no offense intended, Ken Coffee. I was reading your blog before I read Wade's) or to people that couldn't hang as pastors or who?
Most of us who pastor in the SBC are, unfortunately, isolated from one another. We fellowship at associational executive board meetings or at planning meetings or at the SBC and State conventions. There's precious little opportunity to ask questions that seem threatening to the system. No chance to say, "Wait a minute, what's going here?" for fear we'll get trounced (this is very true of younger pastors that don't have, how shall I say it, 'mentors' or better, 'sponsors') and never see another opportunity to preach again. So, while I blog under my own name, and comment with my own name, I feel better about asking some of these questions, learning about these issues, in the relative anonymity of the blog-world. I try and read both sides, filter anything that looks like it's more personal than useful, and learn what I can.
Having said that, I've given up any hope of ever being involved with the IMB, NAMB, or even writing Sunday School lit for Lifeway. I actually figure Guidestone charges me more for insurance.
But keep blogging. Both sides. Our seminaries are too polarized or sycophantic to help us here both angles of debate, and there are legitimate questions of policy, polity, theology, and even Biblical interpretation that need to be asked.
Scriptures for Lenten Reflection
from St. Luke Chapter 18
"18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain
which trusted in themselves
that they were righteous,
and despised others:
18:10 Two men went up
into the temple to pray;
the one a Pharisee,
and the other a publican.
18:11 The Pharisee stood
and prayed thus with himself,
'God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.'
18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes
unto heaven,
but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other:
for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased;
and he that humbleth himself
shall be exalted. "
These are the Words of the Lord.
And let us say, 'Amen'
This is what happens when we follow men and do not ask questions:
NYT: Madoff Had Accomplices: His Victims
I can’t deny that there was something gratifying about watching Bernard Madoff handcuffed and carted off to jail Thursday morning. He was — is — the worst of the worst. By his own admission, his Ponzi scheme ran for nearly two decades; by contrast, the original Ponzi scheme, dreamed up by an Italian immigrant named Charles Ponzi in 1919, was exposed within eight months. Many of Madoff’s investors have been left with nothing, having foolishly entrusted their life savings to a man they thought “was God,” as Elie Wiesel put it not long ago. Mr. Wiesel’s foundation lost more than $15 million in the Madoff fraud, and he and his wife, Marion, lost their personal fortune as well.
At a panel a month ago, put together by Portfolio magazine, Mr. Wiesel expressed, better than I’ve ever heard it, why people gave Mr. Madoff their money. “I remember that it was a myth that he created around him,” Mr. Wiesel said, “that everything was so special, so unique, that it had to be secret. It was like a mystical mythology that nobody could understand.” Mr. Wiesel added: “He gave the impression that maybe 100 people belonged to the club. Now we know thousands of them were cheated by him.”
And yet, just about anybody who actually took the time to kick the tires of Mr. Madoff’s operation tended to run in the other direction. James R. Hedges IV, who runs an advisory firm called LJH Global Investments, says that in 1997 he spent two hours asking Mr. Madoff basic questions about his operation. “The explanation of his strategy, the consistency of his returns, the way he withheld information — it was a very clear set of warning signs,” said Mr. Hedges. When you look at the list of Madoff victims, it contains a lot of high-profile names — but almost no serious institutional investors or endowments. They insist on knowing the kind of information Mr. Madoff refused to supply.
Even Mr. Wiesel thought the government should help the victims — or at least the charitable institutions among them. “The government should come and say, ‘We bailed out so many others, we can bail you out, and when you will do better, you can give us back the money,’ ” he said at the Portfolio event.
But why? What happened to the victims of Bernard Madoff is terrible. But every day in this country, people lose money due to financial fraud or negligence. Innocent investors who bought stock in Enron lost millions when that company turned out to be a fraud; nobody made them whole. Half a dozen Ponzi schemes have been discovered since Mr. Madoff was arrested in December. People lose it all because they start a company that turns out to be misguided, or because they do something that is risky, hoping to hit the jackpot. Taxpayers don’t bail them out, and they shouldn’t start now. Did the S.E.C. foul up? You bet. But that doesn’t mean the investors themselves are off the hook. Investors blaming the S.E.C. for their decision to give every last penny to Bernie Madoff is like a child blaming his mother for letting him start a fight while she wasn’t looking.
That being said, you shouldn't being reviewing a book if you have a personal animus against the author. Or if he's your cousin and you want his book to sell. Either one kills your credibility.
Amen.
Brett and Greg Harvey,
Brett wrote: “Imagine if [the internet] had been available to Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John. Or even Christ.”
Greg replied to his statement, but the question did not come up ‘Who would have put Christ on the cross?’
I believe it would be ‘religious leaders’…those with the attitude and BI intelligence of demanding obedience to their way of thinking such as signing the BFM 2000.
Maybe Ben Cole’s book would give us a clue…”On a Hill which to Kill”.
Many comments reminded me of the song “Harper’s Valley PTA”.
L’s,
Your funny story of your father was worth reading all the comments.
Dear Pastor HIBBARD,
I agree with you that blogging breaks down barriers.
There are also times, on Wade's blog, where those of other faiths can participate in the care of those in need in the SBC, such as people in deep mourning, and seriously ill children in hospital.
I know that some of those from other faiths 'pray without ceasing' in convents, keeping vigil through the night, surrounding those in crisis with prayers to the Merciful One.
It's not the FORM of media that is 'good' or 'evil' in and of itself; it is the WAY that the form of media is used. If pastors can use blogging to let people know of a need to pray for others, then they are participating in an act of Christian charity in obedience to the Laws of Christ. L's
Hi REX RAY,
It's me, L's
Oh, you should have been there to see the whole thing.
My mother, God love her, knew that Pop said 'Kelley's Pool Hall'
before he picked up the phone, just to get her goat. It was all in fun: my parents adored each other.
But REX, my father, a humble man, was also very reserved in that special French Canadian way: formal and proper. And Catholic to the back bone. He had only the highest respect for the nuns who taught us. When the 'incident' occured, the look on my father's face was PRICELESS. I don't think he ever got over it. He asked me to 'apologize and explain' to Sister Ruth, but I was too shy to speak to her about it, and she never mentioned it. Whew !
The Family all still laugh about my father's 'faux pas'. :)
Love, L's
New bbc,
If your comment to me were not so sad I might be laughing. At least Wade has some class and attempts to show respect - even for people he does not know! You on the other hand proved far less class and total lack of christian respect. I pitty you!
Dear THY PEACE,
I am sorry to hear about Elie Wiesel. One would think that he had suffered enough already for one lifetime, being a Holocaust survivor. This time, at least, it's 'only money'. Years ago, he lost most of his family to the gas chambers and the ovens.
Sad news. L's
"If your comment to me were not so sad I might be laughing. At least Wade has some class and attempts to show respect - even for people he does not know! You on the other hand proved far less class and total lack of christian respect. I pitty you!"
Awww, come on, Tim. Laugh a little! It would do you good! You don't seem like a very happy fellow when you come here.
Hey, shall I dig up and post here some of the early comments you posted on the NBBCOF? Kind of a trip down memory lane, if you will. After reading the things you wrote back then, you're one to be talking about showing "christian respect." Now, that's funny! I seem to recall you said something about us being "evil" and that you were praying for a "blog malfunction," and then you blamed me for deleting several of your comments when the truth is I did no such thing. Back when comment moderation wasn't on (which it wasn't back then) I had no problem admitting when I deleted a comment, but I let all of yours stand.
You're right about one thing though. I'm not nearly as sweet as Wade, but I'm not in need of your "pitty."
Pastor Hibbard made my point quite succinctly:
"That being said, you shouldn't being reviewing a book if you have a personal animus against the author."
That's what I meant by "credibility" and "objectivity." I find it difficult to believe, just based on the things you've written, that you could be either when it comes to reviewing anything Wade writes. I sincerely hope you prove me wrong about that.
Dr Phil
It looks like peter removed the video link to
The Passion that Pushes Me
Do you have a backup link?
wally
Wally,
I had a feeling that would happen. Not to worry. Link will be posted later. :-)
dr Phil now has a post on his blog for all to see.
http://sbcdrphil.blogspot.com/
wally
Well, Dr. P has 'diagnosed' PB and now we can ask, 'what is the prescribed plan of treatment in cases such as this?'
Notice, the reference is not to the 'case' personally. :)
wade, you are such a victim.
oh, poor wade, look at how people just bash you and tear you down...everybody, let's feel bad for wade. please...
The guy's just looking to pick a fight. Hardly worth your effort, Wade.
Wade,
Today you write, “It's obvious that this former pastor wants me to feel shame for my writing. I'm interested in your opinion. What say you?”
I hope you are serious in your assertion of “interest” in others’ opinions. Mine is patterned after your post four days ago entitled, “Spiritual Abuse Masked as Spiritual Authority.” That post gets at the fundamental roots of your question.
Spiritual Abuse Masked as Religious Blogging (a parallel/sequel to Wade’s March 7 Post)
Today is part one of a seven-part series on identifying the characteristics of spiritually abusive religious blogging. Future comments on the subject will be linked with this one to form a complete series on the subject of spiritually abusive religious blogging. When finished over the next several weeks this independent perspective on spiritually abusive religious blogging, should contribute to a better understanding of the perilous evils of this despicable practice. Regrettably, “This subject is an important one in our day.” (WB)
Spiritual abuse on the Internet has become the favorite weapon of a few individuals and groups who have failed in their face-to-face efforts to effectively dictate to others who actually hold positions of genuine religious authority. An Oklahoma acquaintance, Wade Burleson, has developed the epitome of spiritually abusive blogsites, which he has dubbed, with fitting irony, “kerussocharis.” Using his website as a guide, the following descriptive definition of spiritually abusive blogging is self-evident.
Spiritually abusive bloggers publish named and anonymous defamatory blogging attacks in blogposts and comments on the Internet. They assume the role of the “Lord’s anointed.” They seem to see themselves as modern-day all-knowing prophet/theologians, overseers and critics of anyone in a position of religious authority, who has the temerity to decline any of their admonitions. Spiritually abusive bloggers all seem to share a common experience. They all have failed in one or more self-initiated efforts to persuade or dictate to one or more actual religious leaders. Once a religious leader rejects their advice/dictates, these self-appointed volunteer prophet/theologians morph into spiritually abusive religious bloggers.
The First Characteristic of a Spiritually Abusive Religious Blogging System:
There is a preoccupation with the blog leader’s intellectual and spiritual authority. The constant need to remind others of that authority is ubiquitous. Posts and comments constantly reflect and reinforce this within the blogpack.
Leaders and blogpack commentors spend a great deal of time explicitly or implicitly writing about their "rightness and authority" and reminding others of it. This posturing appears most frequently in ridiculing or shaming remarks toward anyone who holds opinions contrary to the judgements deemed acceptable to members of the blogpack, especially those opinions held by their leader. The spirit of the blogpack demands total attention and deferential allegiance to the leaders' writings.
“The difference between real spiritual authority and abusive spiritual authority is that the former actually possesses it, the latter only postures it. When Jesus taught, He possessed spiritual authority because His life and His character backed up what He was saying.” (WB, capital H’s added)
One of the best ways to identify spiritually abusive religious blogging is to pay attention to how much time and effort is expended on the blogsite smearing people and points of view found objectionable to the blogpack. The blog leader and pack members are quick in their posts and comments to attack anyone daring to comment or act out from - under their word, under their "authority." Independent thought and conduct on the part of others is routinely targeted by spiritually abusive religious bloggers. Their incessant attack mode is the clearest indication that spiritually abusive religious bloggers are operating under their own authority and not the Spirit of God's authority.
An opinion, as requested,
With due credit to you, Wade,
Hiram Smith
Psa.23:1
+++
Wade, Had you not a blog, how would so many of us have known about Dr. Klouda and what was done to her by an SBC entity? How would she have been helped by so many other brothers and sisters in Christ in that same SBC?
Scriptures for Reflection
3rd Sunday in Lent
"Isaiah 55:1-9 (New International Version)
Isaiah 55
Invitation to the Thirsty
1 "Come, all you who are thirsty
come to the water
and you who have no money,
come, buy and eat!
Come, buy wine and milk
without money and without cost.
2 Why spend money on what is not bread, and your labor on what does not satisfy?
Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good, and your soul will delight in the richest of fare.
3 Give ear and come to me;
hear me, that your soul may live.
I will make an everlasting covenant with you,
my faithful love promised to David.
4 See, I have made him a witness to the people a leader and commander of the peoples.
5 Surely you will summon nations you know not,
and nations that do not know you will hasten to you,
because of the LORD your God,
the Holy One of Israel,
for he has endowed you with splendor."
6 Seek the LORD while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake his way
and the evil man his thoughts.
Let him turn to the LORD,
and he will have mercy on him,
and to our God,
for he will freely pardon.
8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD.
9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher
than your ways
and my thoughts
than your thoughts."
LIN wrote this:
"Wade, Had you not a blog, how would so many of us have known about Dr. Klouda and what was done to her by an SBC entity? How would she have been helped by so many other brothers and sisters in Christ in that same SBC?"
Did Wade's accusers also throw stones at the innocent ones? Did his accusers stand in silence while Dr. Klouda was persecuted?
Wade has credibility BECAUSE he stood up against abuse.
Hiram Smith, did you speak for Dr. Klouda ? Where were you then?
Where were you ?
Did you care ?
Were you 'afraid' to speak ?
Did you weep for her and her family ?
An ancient saying:
'if I am not for others,
what am I?
if not now, when ? '
"Wade, Had you not a blog, how would so many of us have known about Dr. Klouda and what was done to her by an SBC entity? How would she have been helped by so many other brothers and sisters in Christ in that same SBC?"
So true. And I would have never heard of the "BI Movement" (thanks to Dr. Phil for the befitting abbreviation and his professional medical diagnoses), Peter Lumpkins, Wes Kenney, Tim Guthrie, C.B. Scott, Robert from Geneva, Hiram Smith, KMC, and a raft of other he-man, woman-hater bloviators who make me ashamed to call myself Southern Baptist.
You guys should be eternally grateful! Wade has given you free publicity and more exposure than all of you could have ever gotten combined. But now it appears you're getting a little more exposure than you'd like, and people are seeing your motives, dirty tactics, and intolerance of anyone who doesn't fall into lockstep with you. People like Wade and the FBC Jax Watchdog are shining the light into the dark places, and y'all can't stand it. Scurry, little bugs, scurry!
Hiram,
It seems to me that, for someone in a position to be spiritually abusive of me, he'd have to be in a position to affect me in some way. Spiritual authority over me (pastor, employer, etc), or have authority over some entity which can affect my fate.
I believe Wade's post was "Spiritual Abuse Masquerading as Spiritual Authority.
For me, there's no such blogger.
Bob,
Again, you nailed it.
A blogger has no authority - only that given to him by his or her credibility.
This is why strong arm tactics to shut down a blog only confirm the credibility of what is being written.
The "lost" videos are baaaaack.
The Passion That Pushes Me
WeakEnd Book Review
New BBC,
You said "So true. And I would have never heard of the "BI Movement" (thanks to Dr. Phil for the befitting abbreviation and his professional medical diagnoses), Peter Lumpkins, Wes Kenney, Tim Guthrie, C.B. Scott, Robert from Geneva, Hiram Smith, KMC, and a raft of other he-man, woman-hater bloviators who make me ashamed to call myself Southern Baptist."
You know nothing you speak of!
1. As several have written - there is no BI movement! There is no organization.
2. "Woman haters" ? Totally untrue. I have more than one lady on my staff! I also have a lady who leads our early Worship service! Propaganda does not always equal truth. Again, you no nothing of what you claim to know!
3. I for one sat under the teaching of Dr. Adrian Rogers and was taught the very things I am writing about by him as he expounded on the Word of God. He taught clearly to settle differences as the Bible teaches. That is what I champion.
Before you falsely accuse, you might want to make sure of your facts. I do not agree with abuse in any form be it Pastor and staff or pew sitter! None of the guys you mentioned do either.
I preach in at least 7 different types of churches (non Baptist) every year. I even have another type of church using our facilities weekly were I Pastor. Man are you off base here!
Today the world wide web has turned 20.
Can we all imagine how we would be without the internet?
Correction:
W3.org > Berners-Lee - FAQ > Q: What is the difference between the Net and the Web?
(Sometimes the links to actual questions do not work properly, so please scroll up or down to find the question.)
A: The Internet ('Net) is a network of networks. Basically it is made from computers and cables. What Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn did was to figure out how this could be used to send around little "packets" of information. As Vint points out, a packet is a bit like a postcard with a simple address on it. If you put the right address on a packet, and gave it to any computer which is connected as part of the Net, each computer would figure out which cable to send it down next so that it would get to its destination. That's what the Internet does. It delivers packets - anywhere in the world, normally well under a second.
Lots of different sort of programs use the Internet: electronic mail, for example, was around long before the global hypertext system I invented and called the World Wide Web ('Web). Now, videoconferencing and streamed audio channels are among other things which, like the Web, encode information in different ways and use different languages between computers ("protocols") to provide a service.
The Web is an abstract (imaginary) space of information. On the Net, you find computers -- on the Web, you find document, sounds, videos,.... information. On the Net, the connections are cables between computers; on the Web, connections are hypertext links. The Web exists because of programs which communicate between computers on the Net. The Web could not be without the Net. The Web made the net useful because paeople are really interested in information (not to mention knowledge and wisdom!) and don't really want to have know about computers and cables.
WebOPedia > The Difference Between the Internet and the World Wide Web
How Stuff Works? > What's the difference between the Internet and the World Wide Web?
Wiki > History of the Internet
Wiki > Internet
Histories of the Internet > A Brief History of the Internet
New BBC,
You bear false witness by calling me a woman-hater for I do not hate woman. I am quite confident that the Lord loves each of the men you have listed. Do not be ashamed of that which the Lord loves. For in doing so you place yourself atop your own personal tower of Babel. So, if I may, and if you please, come back down and stay awhile with us. If you are ashamed of being a Southern Baptist because of people, then Christendom ought to make you flee to hell. If what you say is true then you indeed deny soul competency and the priesthood of all believers?
Btw,
I am not sure we have ever spoken. I am a very reasonable and understanding person. You might try emailing me your grievances before smattering me and others on the web. Unless of course Christian unity is not your goal.
k
"You know nothing you speak of!
1. As several have written - there is no BI movement! There is no organization."
Exclamation point! What do you call a group of people who think the same way and promote the same rules and regulations or you are not a real Baptist? A group? A movement? A clique? A minyon?
"2. "Woman haters" ? Totally untrue. I have more than one lady on my staff! I also have a lady who leads our early Worship service! Propaganda does not always equal truth. Again, you no nothing of what you claim to know!"
Exclamation point! I have to say, you are a regular pioneer in the use of women in a church. Well done.
"3. I for one sat under the teaching of Dr. Adrian Rogers and was taught the very things I am writing about by him as he expounded on the Word of God. He taught clearly to settle differences as the Bible teaches. That is what I champion."
Are you sure? Read your entire comment again. BTW: Sometimes AR settled differences by sweeping them under the rug...like when some wanted to fire Patterson years ago. He also called Calvinism the doctrine of demons. How is that for settling differences?
"Before you falsely accuse, you might want to make sure of your facts. I do not agree with abuse in any form be it Pastor and staff or pew sitter! None of the guys you mentioned do either."
We can only go by comments. Do people mean what they write? I agree that not all of them are women haters. But not all of them edify women, either, or see them as true equals in the Body of Christ. Most of them are quite clear that women should 'know their place' or 'role' which is UNDER men.
Especially Robert. He is just down right mean and hateful. Especially toward Dr. Klouda.
"I preach in at least 7 different types of churches (non Baptist) every year. I even have another type of church using our facilities weekly were I Pastor. Man are you off base here!"
What does this have to do with anything?
Let me introduce you to the period:
.
See?
It is real simple and easier to do than 'shift'-- hit 1. The period requires no shifting. Try it more often. Please. :o)
Lydia
"Should a Minister of the Gospel Have a Blog?"
I know that when folks say "minister of the gospel" they mean paid "professional" ministers -- but, biblically speaking, aren't all Christians actually supposed to be ministers? In that case, the question becomes "Should a Christian Have a Blog?" If the answer to that is "yes" then the question is "Should Paid 'Professional' Ministers Have to Follow a Different Set of Rules than Other Christians?"
Lydia,
!!!! :-)
You might be careful of falling into the trap of the propoganda movement!(ooooops . )
I can remember Dr Rogers speaking clearly about those who think they know all that is going on in a church versus those who truly know. As for sweeping - I would be careful attaching something to someone that which you cannot prove.
Speculation is no excuse for bearing false witness.
Tim,
The problem with many SBC pastors is that they do not practice what they preach. But they are very good with dishing out the warnings... except to themselves.
Periods are your friends.
Lydia
"You bear false witness by calling me a woman-hater for I do not hate woman. "
This is really quite enough. Few were upset about Patterson bearing false witness about Klouda. He never produced the students he said came to him with concerns. He also lied about her 'new job' and other things. But it is different when a male with a title does it.
One can take comments and deduct that many here are not exactly what one would call women edifiers. Gals are fine as long as they know their place.
IF one is a woman, that thinking can easily translate into "woman hater". Just like many here call women who believe that women can be ministers, "feminists" which is usually translated into "women who hate men". But you would not call that bearing false witness. You would agree with calling her a feminist = man hater. Wouldn't you? Seems the word 'feminist' has become a vile cuss word we sling at folks in Christendom. It has been used in such a way as to conjure up visions of women who hate men. And it is used quite a bit in the SBC that way.
Lydia
Hiram Smith
dr phil has your number.
http://sbcdrphil.blogspot.com/
wally
New BBC Open Forum
thanks for recovering the missing videos
the pewter bunkens removed from his blog
wally
Lydia,
I am unclear as to why you are telling me "that is enough?" You are an anonymous blogger and I assure you that you will not dictate to me my thoughts or beliefs or when or where I can express them. It will be enough when I say it is enough.
Your comment did nothing more than join in calling me a woman hater. So, you along with BBC continue to bear false witness. I do not hate women nor do you have evidence to the fact that I do or do not edify women. So what is your beef?
Do you just enjoy spreading lies? Or are you getting paid to tear down the body of Christ?
I can just see Mother Angelica shaking her finger at you...shaking her head...and giving you some piece of stern advice which seeks to exalt the Lord and admonish your actions like she has done so many time to the pesky callers to her show.
k
PS: This comment was intended to admonish you to Christ-like behavior--building you (a woman) up in the Lord.
"One can take comments and deduct that many here are not exactly what one would call women edifiers."
Translation-Anyone who opposes the feminist agenda is a woman hater.
About MOTHER ANGELICA :
"Recovering from 2 strokes suffered since late 2001.
Her parents, John Rizzo and Mae Helen Gianfransisco, divorced in 1929.
Before becoming a nun herself, she had disliked all the nuns she had met, describing them as "the meanest people I've ever known."
Young Rita Rizzo's mother was opposed to her desire to become a nun. So she ran away from home to enter a convent under the name Sister Angelica, which nearly ended their relationship entirely. Several years later, her mother not only reconciled with her daughter, but became a nun herself. She was admitted into the same convent as her daughter, just as Sister Angelica was promoted to Mother Angelica. Reflecting on this turn of events, Mother Angelica recalls "I called my mother Sister and she called me Mother."
Personal Quotes
"We (my mother and I) were like a pair of refugees. We were poor, hungry, and barely surviving on odd jobs before my mother learned the dry cleaning business as an apprentice to a Jewish tailor in the area. Even then, we pinched pennies just to keep food on the table."
"If you combine all the love of every person in who ever existed from Adam and Eve to everyone alive today, that's still not as much love as God feels for you right now."
Where Are They Now
(2004) Is Mother Superior at Our Lady of the Angels Monastary in Irondale, Alabama.
Translation-Anyone who opposes the feminist agenda is a woman hater.
Sun Mar 15, 09:46:00 PM 2009
What is the feminist agenda?
Lydia
"I am unclear as to why you are telling me "that is enough?" You are an anonymous blogger and I assure you that you will not dictate to me my thoughts or beliefs or when or where I can express them. It will be enough when I say it is enough."
Yes Sir! (cowering in corner)
"Your comment did nothing more than join in calling me a woman hater. So, you along with BBC continue to bear false witness. I do not hate women nor do you have evidence to the fact that I do or do not edify women. So what is your beef?"
What you call 'bearing false witness' is in reality another persons perceptions based on comments here from SOME. I thought I had explained that? Guess not very well. Oh well.
"o you just enjoy spreading lies? Or are you getting paid to tear down the body of Christ?"
No, only pastors get paid to do that. (wink)
" can just see Mother Angelica shaking her finger at you...shaking her head...and giving you some piece of stern advice which seeks to exalt the Lord and admonish your actions like she has done so many time to the pesky callers to her show."
Now, I AM really scared. She is mean.
"PS: This comment was intended to admonish you to Christ-like behavior--building you (a woman) up in the Lord."
It 'missed the mark'. :o)
Lydia
Doug said...
Thy Peace.
Listen to Pastor Wade's Christmas message called "Counselor" from two weeks ago in the series "The Christ We Know." I think you will like it and it will give you a sense for what it is like to listen to him Sunday after Sunday. Let me know what you think.
Tue Dec 16, 11:48:00 PM 2008
-----------------------------------
Just finished listening to sermon 2. Counselor (Isaiah 9:6) of the series The Christ We Know. If you watch the video, it's titled, "The Christ We Know: COUNSELOR", December 7, 2008 - Part 2 of series on Isaiah 9:6. The sermon is from 20:00 to 50:25.
I would encourage all of Pastor Wade's critics and supporters to listen to this sermon. There is lot of personal testimony in this sermon and some humor related to the name of Pastor Wade. This series is very dynamic and powerful. And it's ALL about Jesus. Down the road, I intend to re-listen to these sermons many more times.
I feel listening to Pastor Wade' sermons balances reading his posts and you get a better picture of who he is.
Don't answer that Joe. Its a trap.
Don't answer that Joe. Its a trap.
Sun Mar 15, 10:39:00 PM 2009
Seriously, Crowder. It is not a trap. I cannot figure out what people mean when they say "feminist agenda".
Lydia
Here are posts supportive of Voddie Baucham:
Founders: Voddie Baucham
Pyro: What He Must Read
On the other side, Cindy does extensive analysis of Voddie Baucham:
Cindy's blog: Voddie Baucham
I wonder where women would choose to be? Which of the above would they identify with?
My nomination for better picture to use in your post, Wade:
http://www.ahajokes.com/crt015.html
j
I have become aware of your blog through notification by fellow members of the CBE blog, THE SCROLL. And so I have read several articles. I want to say, as someone who is both a Calivinistic Baptist and Egalitarian, I appreciate the honesty, integrity, balance and completeness of your analysis and commentary on the controversies regarding Calvinism vs. Arminianism, and women in ministry. And as far as the irrate pastor who criticizes your using the Internet blog, to proclaim, defend and confirm the Gospel, reaching people who either would never enter a regular SBC, or, who have left it for various reasons--well, I think the poor man just doesn't have the vision for Christ's kingdom that you do. So be faithful to our Lord, and be valiant for the Truth, my Christian brother.
Your qouted this pastor as saying, "This wretched, condemning chatter which floods the internet--unfortunately many time by pastors bored because there's no one to minister to, no one to lead, no one to mentor, no one to pray for, no one to see in the hospital, no programs to plan, no vision to dream, no sermon to prepare, no book to read, so they obsessively blog--in the form of "engagement" must come to a close."
I found myself immediately wondering if he considered himself to this wonderful he layed out. I recently started my own blog as a way to expand my ministry, not as "filler." I still plan programs, prepare sermons, make hospital visits, etc. and post on my blog. So that is my question, is he posting these comments because he has nothing better to do than disparage a brother in the Lord?
"I want to say, as someone who is both a Calivinistic Baptist and Egalitarian,"
And I thought I was the only one. :o)
Lydia
No, Lydia, you are not the only Calvinist Baptist and Egalitarian, either inside or outside the SBC. However, I would not want you or anyone else to be misled by some of what I said in my previous comments. I was not raised or saved in the SBC, but in an Independent Baptist Church in Michigan. When I came out to attend Bible college in Colorado, 1977 to 1980, it was a result of my studies there that I became both a Calvinist, Progressive Creationist, and an Egalitarian. And I am of those persuasions still.
However, from 1978 to 1988, I was an active member of Bear Valley Baptist Church, led by Pastor Frank Tillapaugh, and which had a dual affiliation with the Conservative Baptist and Southern Baptist Conventions. And when the international student ministry, of which I was a part, lost church support, I went over to the Evangelical Free Church for several years. However, I have friends who have served as missionaries and theological professors in the SBC, and would attend a SBC church when I visited my lat mother in Georgia. So such are my past connections with the SBC.
And to be honest with you, I might be willing visit an SBC church, especially if had the mind and spirit of Christ that Pastor Burleson and his church seem to have, as evidenced in this blog. But with the SBC taking such a rigid stand on Calvinism, Women in Ministry, and the adoption of the Semi-Arianism being promoted by CBMW, I could never be a teacher or committee member, as I have been in my present church. Nor would there be, I believe, any liberty for me to express my views on these issues, if Patterson and company have their way. So I might occasionally visit a SBC church, but I don't think I could ever be a member.
Wade, I don't think it takes as much time to blog for some as for others. It depends on fast you can read, and how good a typist you are.
I can read your blog pretty easily, then look at some of the comments. I always know when it's time to stop reading, though. It's when I get to the first comment by Kenneth Keith Crowder.
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