As I drove my 14 year old son to school this morning he asked me, "Dad, do you think the world is coming to an end?" Yesterday was my son's first experience with Presidential elections in terms of his own personal interest, being of the age that he is beginning to pay attention to the future of our United States. I asked him what he meant by his question and he explained that he had heard several Christians say that Obama's election is a sign of the end of the world. I would have laughed had I not read similar statements by Southern Baptists on the internet. For instance, Big Daddy Weaver points out that one Southern Baptist pastor has written:
Obama is the most dangerous man in America. He is a greater threat to this nation than is Bin Laden....Obama will kill this country as we have lived free in it like no other before.... We must defeat the Obamas, Carters, Clintons . . . or they will destroy this nation.
I thought that the statements above were hyperbole until the author of them, when asked by other Southern Baptists if he actually wrote them, stated "I made those statements and many more like them. I stand by them for they are true." Then, he asks us to pray for Bin Laden, er, Barack Obama.
At some point we Southern Baptists need to realize that extremist statements like the above only do damage to our Convention's reputation, our country, and our stature in the evangelical community. Not to mention the fact that the Bible specifically teaches that all governmental leaders are "ordained" (i.e. "appointed") by God (Romans 13), and in fact, God calls them His "servants," so to "fight" against them is to fight against God. Barack Obama is our President, and the notion that he is worse for our nation than the man who masterminded 9/11 passes the boundary of Christian civility and moral decency.
I told my son, "No, son, the world is not coming to an end. God has given us Barack Obama to be our President. He is called God's servant in the Bible, and we trust that God will direct Him for the ultimate good of our nation to fulfill God's purposes for our world." I then encouraged my son to lift up Barack Obama and his family, to pray for them and their protection, and to do his part to speak a kind word about our next leader. He got out of the car, with a spring in his step, now believing that the world is not coming to an end, but more importantly, committed to show others that it is possible for Southern Baptist Christians to know and believe that President Barack Obama is precisely who God intended to be our next President, and to commit to pray for him, support him, and to show kindness toward him in the days to come. Would to God some of our Southern Baptist pastors would know and show this as well.
In His Grace,
Wade Burleson
249 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 249 of 249Jim:
Thanks for the attack. I shall not respond in kind.
Responding like Christians (by Ligon Duncan)
Some worthwhile and timely thoughts from Ligon Duncan on how to respond to the
election of Barack Obama as president of the United States:
We will pray that God will protect this nation even as our new President
settles into his role as Commander in Chief, and that God will grant peace as he
leads the nation through times of trial and international conflict and tension.
We will pray that God would change President-Elect Obama’s mind and heart on
issues of crucial moral concern. May God change his heart and open his eyes to
see abortion as the murder of the innocent unborn, to see marriage as an
institution to be defended, and to see a host of issues in a new light. We must
pray this from this day until the day he leaves office. God is sovereign, after
all.
For those Christians who are more dismayed than overjoyed about the prospects
of an Obama presidency, there should be a remembrance that as our President,
Barack Obama will have God-given authority to govern us, and that we should view
him as a servant of God (Rom. 13:1, 4) to whom we should be subject (Rom. 13:1,
5; 1 Pet. 2:13-14). Thus, again, we are to pray for Barack Obama (1 Tim. 2:1-2).
We are to thank God for Barack Obama (1 Tim. 2:1-2). We are to respect Barack
Obama (Rom. 13:7). We are to honor Barack Obama (Rom. 13:7; 1 Pet. 2:17).
For those Christians who are more overjoyed than concerned about the prospects
of an Obama presidency, there should be a remembrance of our ultimate
allegiance: Jesus is Lord (and thus, He, not we, decides what is right and
wrong), we serve God not man, and the Lord himself has promised to establish
“the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves
God and one who does not serve him” (Malachi 3:18). Thus, where our new
president opposes or undermines biblical moral standards in our society, fails
to uphold justice for the unborn, undermines religious liberties or condones an
ethos that is hostile to the Gospel, we will pray for God’s purposes to
triumph over our President’s plans and policies.
Without doubt and whatever our particular views may be, we face hard days
ahead. Realistically, we must all expect to be frustrated and disappointed. Some
now may feel defeated and discouraged. While others may all-too-soon find their
audacious hopes unfounded and unrealized. We must all keep ever in mind that it
is God who raises up leaders and nations, and it is God who pulls them down, and
who judges both nations and rulers. We must not act or think like unbelievers,
or as those who do not trust God.
When the reality of Obama being our next president sunk in, this hymn came to
my mind:
My hope is built on nothing less
Than JESUS’ blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on JESUS’ name.
When darkness veils His lovely face,
I rest on His unchanging grace;
In every high and stormy gale,
My anchor holds within the veil.
His oath, His covenant, His blood
Support me in the whelming flood;
When all around my soul gives way,
He then is all my hope and stay.
When He shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh, may I then in Him be found;
Dressed in His righteousness alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne.
Refrain:
On CHRIST, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand,
All other ground is sinking sand.
—Edward Mote (1797-1874)
Info about Ligon Duncan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligon_Duncan
Tom Parker:
Amen, bro. Preach on. I like and respect you more with every comment of yours I read.
John
Greg Harvey,
You referenced Cal Thomas. He said:
“Barack Obama…Born in 1979 and midwifed by the late Rev. Jerry Falwell...”
Wow! What did Thomas mean by midwife?
Obama’s grandmother didn’t say anything about Falwell delivering Obama when she was in the room when Obama was born in Kenai.
If Obama ever gets around to releasing his birth certificate, is it going to have Falwell as the midwife? Hard to dispute a dead man. Didn’t know they had midwifes in the hospitals in Hawaii.
Ha, Ha…I’m still laughing at myself. I wrote the above but stopped to show Thomas’s article to my wife.
She didn’t need her Master’s Degree in English to straighten me out. That’s what I get for skimming and looking for trouble. I also missed seeing the ‘bear’ in the previous post.
I just blew my chance of being “know and recognized”. (1 Corinthians 11:19)
I am trying to find the logic in the responses that if all kids had health care (they do, ..free clinics all over the US..we even have them attached to schools in our state) then Barak Obama would NEVER have BEEN FOR WITHHOLDING MEDICAL CARE for born alive late term aborted babies?
Is that what you all are trying to tell us? It is the mean republicans fault that Obama believes born alive aborted babies should not be given medical help?
Please tell me this is not what you are saying, Susie. YOu have always made more sense than this.
Lydia
I do not know all the details, but I understand that the born alive bill that so much fuss is made over was unnecessary because such care of newborns was already provided for in the laws in force at the time. The story I read was that it was an effort, as some other proposals have been, more to make a point than to actually change anything.
Susie
An African-American vote:
http://theologica.blogspot.com/2008/11/eric-redmond-living-soli-deo-gloria.html
From the Southern Baptist Geneva
Robert I Masters
"The story I read was that it was an effort, as some other proposals have been, more to make a point than to actually change anything."
If that is the case, then Obama certainly made his point in what he chose not to defend. And it was not innocent babies.
It seems the case wants to be made that democrats care more about children who are allowed to live. Republicans only care about them before they are born. And want them to die after being born by withholding medical care.
Is that the case you all are trying to make?
Lydia
Brothers and Sisters in Christ:
We are commanded to preach the Gospel, not fight the “culture wars.”
Yet here we are battling each other as lost people all around us die without knowing Christ’s love.
For God’s sake (literally) please beat your swords into plowshares, ask God’s (and your brothers’) forgiveness --- and let’s get back to what we have been called to do.
Otherwise we are going to witness more exchanges like this one I just watched in horror on the “Baptist Identity” blog:
***
Dr. Rodney Cate Says:
November 5th, 2008 at 12:46 am
I just recently became aware of Thomas White's statement on birth control. It is the sort of statement that prompted me to leave the Southern Baptist denomination after a lifetime of membership. In fact, my father was the organist at a Southern Baptist church for 40 years. So, I have considerable experience with the denomination.
I will ignore the issue of when life begins, as no one knows the answer to that question. But, I am sure that such pronouncements as that of White does nothing to further the physical and spiritual well-being of anyone. All it does is promote devisiveness between people. I am continually distressed at the SBC and others of their ilk, as they take extreme positions on issues both trivial and important. I am appalled that the denomination promotes sexism by condemning the ordination of women and treating women as second class citizens in their own families. The S. Baptist people I grew up with were compassionate, and caring people. I fear that those types people are becoming an endangered species.
Rod Cate
cb scott Says:
November 5th, 2008 at 8:03 am
The pitiful confession of Rodney Cate:
"I just recently became aware of Thomas White's statement on birth control. It is the sort of statement that prompted me to leave the Southern Baptist denomination after a lifetime of membership."
Rodney,
If the preaching of Thomas White is a sample of the kind of preaching that made you leave the SBC then it is evident you left because you love darkness better than light.
"So, I have considerable experience with the denomination."
Rodney,
The SBC is not actually a denomination. It would seem that within 40 years someone would have told you that.
"I will ignore the issue of when life begins, as no one knows the answer to that question."
Rodney,
Sticking your head in the sand does not relieve you of your accountability before God for the blood of the helpless.
"But, I am sure that such pronouncements as that of White does nothing to further the physical and spiritual well-being of anyone."
Rodney,
Murder is always negative toward a person's "physical"well-being. I praise God that He has provided for the "spiritual" well-being of the aborted. Otherwise, our homeland's damnable, national sin would be of even a greater magnitude.
"All it does is promote devisiveness between people."
Rodney,
If obedience to God in the seeking to protect human beings from murder divides us, then by all means, let us be divided.
"I am continually distressed at the SBC and others of their ilk, as they take extreme positions on issues both trivial and important."
Rodney,
How can you say abortion is a "trivial" matter. Shame on you. May you find place of repentance before you meet judgment.
" The S. Baptist people I grew up with were compassionate, and caring people. I fear that those types people are becoming an endangered species."
Rodney,
If the "S. Baptist people" you grew up with did not express compassion for murdered babies, yet attended a Southern Baptist church, then some ministers greatly failed in their ministry to proclaim the Word and worship God in Spirit and truth and miserably neglected their accountability before God and His flock for at least forty years.
I am glad they are "becoming an endangered species" among Southern Baptists.
Rodney,
Just what kind of doctor do you claim to be? It is sad to waste an education. It is sin to have bloody hands.
cb
volfan007 Says:
November 5th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Rodney,
With views like you've just expressed, then we're glad you left. We didnt need people who believe like you in the SBC. That was the whole reason of the Conservative Resurgence.
Now, if you'd like to repent of those unbiblical views and get on board, then welcome. We'd be glad to worship and serve alongside of you. But, if you're unwilling to repent, then it's better for you to be gone.
David
***
The last two individuals in the comment stream above are SBC pastors. Please pray for them.
Jack,
You say....
We are commanded to preach the Gospel, not fight the “culture wars.”
Wrong answer according to Gods Word.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_mandate
Agent of Common Grace
Robert I Masters
Robert:
Sorry, but I do not recognize "Wikipedia" as the infallible word of God.
Jesus and Paul were surrounded by perhaps the most decadent culture the world has seen.
Even so, we still see Jesus advise the Pharisees to “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s."
In His Grace,
-jack-
Let me presumably close this comment stream by saying one thing I think is a HUGE statement and one that only the blindest of Obama supporters can overlook (and they will, of course).
Who did ALL the enemies of the US (and you know who they are) want to win the election?
EVERY single one, without exception, wanted Obama to win.
Some people are such idiots and can't even realize the clearest of signs.
And this was reported by CNN even!!!
DEAR DAVID,
When you say this,
" then we're glad you left. We didnt need people who believe like you in the SBC. " to 'Rodney'
I can see that the 'conservative resurgence' is not a Christian entity. A church doesn't need people, people need the Church.
A church doesn't rejoice when people leave. That is time for reflection on how well the Church reflected Christ: and then for a 'counter-reformation' if need be.
A Church and Christian people never have comtempt for others who disagree, just invitation and welcoming into a Christian community, if the person wishes to come and be with them.
I am surprised, David. If it weren't for Wade and many of the good people here, I would now believe that the Southern Baptist Church of my grandmother was vanished from the Earth. You do not represent these people to me. I see you as an exception because of your attitude towards 'Rodney'.
Please think about what you said and reflect on how it looks to someone who is not a Protestant. You need to center yourself on Jesus again and then write back to Rodney in Christian charity.
L's
We are commanded to preach the Gospel, not fight the “culture wars.”
YOU FORGET HOW POWERFUL IS THE GOSPEL OF THE LORD WHEN IT IS PREACHED SO THAT ALL MEN CAN UNDERSTAND, EVEN THE DEAF AND THE BLIND.
As Francis said,
"Preach the Gospel always,
if necessary, use words.
L's
IF THE GOSPEL IS NOT ENOUGH,
WHAT IS BETTER ?
So this is where all the Conservative idolatry of government authority and the Republican Party has its origin:
"Barack Obama will have God-given authority to govern us"
Good grief.
This attitude REALLY sets everybody up for a Christian Nation, doesn't it?
THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: who is in charge?
THE PEOPLE
The president and all government officials are accountable to the PEOPLE. Basic Civics.
Now I can see why GWB and DC were pushing for a 'hyper-presidency' and the destruction of the Balance of Powers.
The founders would be horrified by this idolatry of power.
Barack Obama will have God-given authority to govern us, and that we should view
him as a servant of God (Rom. 13:1
BARACK IS NO KING, he was elected by the people of this country, not by God.
, 4) to whom we should be subject (Rom. 13:1,
IN THIS COUNTRY, WE ARE NOT 'SUBJECTS' TO ANYONE IN AUTHORITY. THEY ARE 'SERVANTS' TO THE PEOPLE.
5; 1 Pet. 2:13-14). Thus, again, we are to pray for Barack Obama (1 Tim. 2:1-2).
NO PROBLEM. BUT DON'T FORGET TO PRAY FOR THE COUNTRY AND FOR OUR TROOPS.
We are to thank God for Barack Obama (1 Tim. 2:1-2).
ONLY IF YOU ARE SINCERE. GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED.
We are to respect Barack
Obama (Rom. 13:7).
RESPECT ALL HUMANS.
BARACK IS HUMAN.
We are to honor Barack Obama (Rom. 13:7; 1 Pet. 2:17).
HONOR THE OFFICE, NOT THE MAN.
HONOR THE BEST IDEALS OF OUR COUNTRY, NOT THE WORST EVIDENCE OF CORRUPTION
HONOR THE SOLDIERS WHO FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM
HONOR THE GOD WHO BROUGHT OUR FOREFATHERS TO THIS LAND WHERE WE COULD WORSHIP AS WE SEE FIT
Never blindly follow any leader.
Nor any political party, certainly not in the name of Jesus.
Many Germans, still living, will tell you that.
JIM PASLAY said about GWB:
"He has kept our country safe."
Respectfully, NO SIR.
"He" stayed in the White House while his veep stayed at 'undisclosed locations'.
MY SON and his brothers-in-arms kept our country safe. Some of my son's friends didn't survive.
Don't EVER give GWB credit for anything but lying us into a war that has cost our country thousands of its really brave young soldiers. They died out of love for their country and to protect each other. GWB never even showed up for his duty assignments in the service. I mourned their deaths as I cast my vote this week.
GWB should be ashamed.
I'm glad he has been repudiated by the American People. He's one reason so many turned out to vote.
Jack,
So if I post the Scripture from the wikipedia
article will you then believe
In Genesis, God gives what we might call the first job description: "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it." The first phrase, "be fruitful and multiply" means to develop the social world: build families, churches, schools, cities, governments, laws. The second phrase, "subdue the earth," means to harness the natural world: plant crops, build bridges, design computers, compose music. This passage is sometimes called the Cultural Mandate because it tells us that our original purpose was to create cultures, build civilizations-nothing less.
In Grace
Robert I Masters
L.s Gran
You said.....
I can see that the 'conservative resurgence' is not a Christian entity.
Dr Hunt seems to disagree with you in his recent speech to the executive committee.
Not sure why a catholic would even care...unless he had an agenda!
In Grace
Robert I Masters
Robert Masters:
Why would you say the following to L's Gran--"Not sure why a catholic would even care...unless he had an agenda!
That seems like a very unkind statement.
Tom.
I guess I might disagree with a roman catholic but not on a roman catholic website or a one that is discussing r.c issues.
Seems like me going on the vatican website and arguing for priests to marry.
unless of course someone has an agenda!
In Grace
Robert I Masters
R.I.MASTERS,
Hi, it's me, L's Gran
I DO have a hope: that my grandmother's Church is healed of troubles and divisions caused by its B.I. or Conservative Resurgence or whatever you wish to call it. I am sad when I hear what has happened and I hope things get better. Why would ANYONE not want to see the Church healed, unless THEY had another agenda.
Please, by all means, go to any Catholic blog you like. Just one caution: a lot of people use the word 'catholic' so you do need to be somewhat discriminating.
If you would like to experience a Catholic setting: visit a Benedictine Monastery for a week. They would love to have you. They do not 'proselytize', goodness, they hardly talk: mostly pray and work and sing. You can expect to hear the Bible read aloud during meals. Very quiet and peaceful, if you should ever need a place to go for sanctuary and healing. Believe it or not, I think it will make you a better Baptist.
I promise. :)
P.S. By the way, I DO think it's a great idea for priests in the Roman rite to be able to marry: Catholic priests in some other Eastern Catholic rites CAN MARRY.
We have many rites within the Roman Catholic Church. L's
L.s Gran,
I dont really see any problems from the conservative resurgence.
yes I do have an agenda .....as do you.
That was what Dr Hunt seemed to indicate. he said that he supported and was involved in resurgence.
In Grace
robert I masters
Robert:
That was more helpful - thanks.
I will consider the scripture you have posted.
-jack-
Robert:
Did you really mean to say--"I dont really see any problems from the conservative resurgence."
No problems???
Barry King said, "At least C.B. didn't call the readers of this blog "bird brains."
That kind of condescending name-calling surely wouldn't be appropriate would it?"
C.B. Scott said, "You see, Wade, I am really not interested in what these wild geese who flock to you. . ."
Barry, please pardon the intrusion of one who counts himself as fully in agreement with Wade's remarks in this blog; and, consequently, identified by C. B. Scott as a "wild goose" flock member. Do you suppose that he had something other in mind other than a "bird brain" to fit into my cranium? ;^) So much for your attempt to minimalize Scott's other appellations for those who find consensus with Wade's observations as being "groupies", "nuts" and "flakes".
And an additional "so much" for your perspective that Scott's appraisal of the dangers President-Elect Obama presents to our nation is O.K., so long as he doesn't equate their mental capacities to those of a bird. ;^)
Barry, does it not trouble you that Scott has become so consumed with anger and hate in defending his accusations that our President-Elect as more dangerous than Osama Bin Laden? It is likely that there is consensus that loyal Americans, Republicans, Democrats, Baptists, and other Christians alike, would not object to ultimate justice being exacted upon Bin Laden for his horrendous crimes. Therefore, does C.B. Scott conclude that our President-Elect deserves the same, or rather, greater punishment, since he is "more dangerous than Osama"?
What is dangerous is the venomous hate being spewed against our nation's duly elected leaders, be they Republican or Democrat.
That said, this "groupie, nut, flake, and wild goose", who happens to also be a sinner eternally saved solely by the grace and mercy of my Lord, Jesus Christ, will make it a point to add C. B. Scott and all who agree with him to my prayer list.
In His Grace and Peace,
T. D. Webb
T.D.
You missed my point. Thankfully, not everyone did.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.
I would appreciate your prayers anyway.
In Him,
Barry
Barry,
As perhaps the only "wild goose" here to "miss your point", I sincerely apologize. ;^)
In His Grace and Peace,
T. D. Webb
T.D.
No problem, my friend.
Barry
Tom,
yes that is what I said....
1. Its a generalization
2. I have only been a Southern Baptist since 96 maybe
3. Iam a layman but have read alot!
ROBERT I. MASTERS SAYS:
L's Gran has an agenda!
"Goodness, I did not know that," says L's.
Let me think. AN AGENDA!
HOW ABOUT THIS:
Okay, I would like for anyone in the B.I. group who harmed Dr. Klouda or the 77 missionaries to ask their forgiveness and make restitution. Then I hope all the Church will pray with them as they ask God's forgiveness and then, all may pray to God to heal the wounds of the SBC.
This IS possible, with God's help.
HOW'S THAT FOR L'S AGENDA???
I like that.
I can live with that.
I have, I am, and I will continue to pray for that to happen.
And yes, with all the strength of my own faith will I pray for healing of another denomination: for the sake of the Body of Christ; and out of respect for the blessed memory of my dear grandmother. :)
That is a very GOOD AGENDA, I think.
L's Gran
Thank you, Robert Masters, for helping me to clarify in my own mind why I blog here. :)
P.S. I also enjoy learning from everyone and I have learned much.
Thank you, dear people. L's
L.s Gran,
Fine
I will pray that the Pope comes to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus through Faith alone.
Robert I Masters
Robert:
I really do not understand why you are writing the way you are to L's Gran.
Hi Tom,
Don't worry about me.
We both know and care about Robert. He means well. It just comes out backwards sometimes.
And this week, a lot of people are upset over the election results, so many are needing to vent.
BTW, I see you are trying to walk the 'gentle walk' with Lord Jesus and reach out to them kindly. It's not easy. Sometimes, I can do it, more often not. He will help you, if you immerse yourself in Him. There is that prayer/hymn:
Be Thou My Vision in my faith. I will print it here for you to help you with your new efforts. :) L's
Getting back to the original post:
We have a conflict between two Christians that I have respect for.
Wade gave a link to C.B. saying: “Obama is the most dangerous man in America. He is a greater threat to this nation than is Bin Laden…Obama will kill this country as we have lived free in it like no other before…We must defeat the Obamas, Carters, Clintons…or they will destroy this nation.”
Wade, do you remember saying in ‘concrete’ words to the effect that Jesus was a Southern Baptist? Of course you didn’t mean to say that, but you denied saying it. The closest you came to saying you wrote it wrong was saying something like: “Sometimes words don’t say what they mean.” You put the blame on words, instead of admitting you made a mistake.
In essence, your post implied that C.B.’s words were saying Obama was more evil than Ben Laden. That’s taking his words out of context. Several times C.B. accused you of this, but you won’t admit it.
This is an example of what C.B. said:
I (Rex) believe sugar made from sugar cane is the most dangerous ingredient in America. Sugar is a greater threat to this country than is heroin…sugar will kill this country like no other before…We must defeat sugar, dessert, junk food…or they will destroy this nation.
Did I say it was more harmful to eat a spoonful of sugar than a spoonful of heroin? No.
Did C.B. say Obama was more evil than Ben Laden? No.
I’m saying since sugar affects most Americans; and only some are on heroin, then sugar is worse for the health of American than heroin is just like C.B. saying Obama will kill this country more than Ben Laden.
Wade, if you criticize me like you did C.B, then I believe it wouldn’t hurt you to give us both an apology.
C.B., since you left (?), you will probably not read this, but I’d like to bring up a ‘mystery’ of: Who was Anonymous in the following comments?
1. Anonymous said, “I suggest that you all read this ABP article, ‘Seminary leaders, employees give different accounts of car sale, which details C.B. Scott’s 2004 termination from Southeastern Seminary…” and gives a link. (Nov. 5, 9:02 PM)
2. Thy Peace said, “Anon 9:02, I read that article, and C.B. Scott comes out OK.” (Nov. 5, 9:57 PM)
3. C.B. repeats what ‘Anonymous 9:02’ said and calls him a coward. He brags on Southeastern and its president who fired him. He rakes Wade over the coals of fire and those “wild geese” who flocked to him. He said he would depart and hopefully not return to Wade’s blog. [Or did he depart?] (Nov. 5, 11:45 PM)
4. Anonymous said: “To C.B. Scott, The glimpse into your situation with Akins and Patterson is like peering into Hell…a free car given to an aid of Patterson…Two people let go…punishment for telling the truth.” (Nov. 6: 12:21)
5. Anonymous said: “THY PEACE: Please look at what I found. If true, then CB Scott is deserving of sympathy. For further insight, I suggest that you all read this ABP article, Seminary leaders, employees give different accounts of car sale. You can click on the article link on: Anonymous posted 9:02 P.M. (Nov. 6, 1:02 AM)
6. Thy Peace said. “Anon 1:02 am; I had already commented on Anon 9:02 pm here.” (Nov. 6, 8:32 AM)
In these six comments, #! and #5 make the identical statement: “I suggest that you all read this ABP article, Seminary leaders, give different accounts of car sale.”
This would indicate that they are the same person, but the question arises why would this same person befriend C.B. again after he has been called a coward?
In #4, the ABP article has enraged anonymous so much he said it was “like peering into Hell.” Who would be that angry unless it was the person fired? On those grounds and the one benefited by the ABP article, I believe these three comments by anonymous were all made by C.B.
If this is true, C.B., it wouldn’t hurt you to do what you’re asking Wade to do.
For the ABC article, October 25, 2004
Let’s see who’s responsible for “Hell”.
From reading the article and in short, C.B. was fired for being a whistleblower at Southeastern. The aide of the school’s president, Paige Patterson, received a new car from the Seminary at half the cost. At the time Patterson knew about the car deal, but when he became president at Southwestern, he refused to comment. When asked if he had any influence in the termination of Scott or Prescott, Patterson said: “Do I look like I just fell off a pumpkin truck? It would be inappropriate for me to comment. I’m not the president there.”
I believe with Patterson’s record, some more of his chickens came home to roost.
Tom, here is 'Be Thou My Vision'
a Celtic hymn sung in Ireland by monks twelve centuries ago.
It will help to keep you focused on Him:
"Be Thou my Vision, O Lord of my heart;
Naught be all else to me, save that Thou art.
Thou my best Thought, by day or by night,
Waking or sleeping, Thy presence my light.
Be Thou my Wisdom, and Thou my true Word;
I ever with Thee and Thou with me, Lord;
Thou my great Father, I Thy true son;
Thou in me dwelling, and I with Thee one.
Be Thou my battle Shield, Sword for the fight;
Be Thou my Dignity, Thou my Delight;
Thou my soul’s Shelter, Thou my high Tower:
Raise Thou me heavenward, O Power of my power."
Tom, it is IMPOSSIBLE to pray this hymn and still be hateful to anyone. I hope it helps.
We are all proud of your new efforts. L's
Riches I heed not, nor man’s empty praise,
Thou mine Inheritance, now and always:
Thou and Thou only, first in my heart,
High King of Heaven, my Treasure Thou art.
High King of Heaven, my victory won,
May I reach Heaven’s joys, O bright Heaven’s Sun!
Heart of my own heart, whatever befall,
Still be my Vision, O Ruler of all."
Tom, if you feel tempted to be impatient with anyone, this prayer/hymn makes it impossible.
Hope it helps.
Don't ever stop trying. L's
Rex Ray,
Now, I will comment here due to your comment suggesting (I use the word "suggesting" to soften what I would say to you if not for us having communication in the past and me having a degree of respect for you.)
Please notice the following with a great desire to believe me:
I did not make an anonymous comment on this thread or any other one. Wade can validate this by telling you my IP address does not match the Anony coward.
Why would I speak as a low living Anony and then say all I have said as cb?
I could not care less what most of the people over here on the farm think of me.
If I said it over here I would have claimed it.
The SEBTS thing is history. What I did say about it is my true conviction. I do hope you do not doubt it and if you do I do sincerely hope you don't put your doubts in print here.
Rex if you would like to talk to me about this, here is my email: cb5512@charter.net
Email me and I will call you on the phone and we will talk privately and I, unlike one other particular individual (some people just can't be trusted one on one) will not post our phone conversation on a blog post.
Rex, we don't agree much, but there are things I like about you as we have commented back and forth over the last couple of years. I hope that does not change.
You take care of your self. I still owe you a cup of coffee if we ever meet in person and we will talk about better things.
I am not an Anony on this blog. Take that to the bank. Being an Anony over here would take all the fun out of it for me.:-)
cb
Tom parker,
Not that hard to figure.
I have not been mean...just oppositional!
I really dont think that anything was wrong with the conservative resurgence or Sheri Kloudas firing.
Wade does
you do
I have seen no facts that support your position only statements by those who did not like the BFM policy change.
In Grace:
Robert I Masters
Robert,
I ask you if there is any tender mercy in your heart not to bring up the Sheri Klouda thing anymore. She has suffered enough at the hands of Southern Baptists, don't you think?
cb
CB Scott
More likely at the hands of Ben Cole and Wade Burleson ...but I will cease as you request.
In Grace
Rob Masters
CB:
It breaks my heart to read a comment made like Robert Masters made about Dr. Klouda-"I really dont think that anything was wrong with the conservative resurgence or Sheri Kloudas firing."
It just astounds me.
Thanks for asking him to cease. I for one greatly appreciate your kind gesture.
Tom,
I really believe Robert Masters is a good man. He does seek to be an honorable one. At least that has been my observation.
I guess I have personal reasons for making the request of him that I did.
Frankly, I believe if he knew of that situation what some of us do he would never have mentioned it in the first place.
I do hope we never see such a thing in the SBC like that again. If we do not, then that will be the only good thing reaped from the sad ordeal it truly was.
cb
Anonymous said...
To C.B. Scott,
The glimpse into your situation with Akins and Patterson is like peering into Hell. What a frightening world. If that kind of stuff goes on in a seminary, how can anyone expect to find Christianity out in the world?
A free car given to an aide of Patterson. Then, the fall-out. Two people 'let go'. (These 'firings' are beginning to sound familiar in the SBC)
A quick check for half the cost of the car as a donation, to cover up because people found out.
And then, punishment for telling the truth.
Like looking into the mouth of Hell. You are deserving of some sympathy, if you have endured this trouble, no matter what your views about Obama.
Christianity is not served when people are treated so.
Thu Nov 06, 12:21:00 AM 2008
"I ask you if there is any tender mercy in your heart not to bring up the Sheri Klouda thing anymore. She has suffered enough at the hands of Southern Baptists, don't you think?
Thank you. Yes, she has. It must be truly frightening for some people to read the words of misguided young men like Robert.... that it is a good and godly thing to ruin people for the sake of what they believe is the Gospel. They really believe that...and with power they can hurt lots of people.
That is the same mentality that locked people up for refusing to baptize their babies...for the sake of the Gospel. It truly is unbelievable how people think.
Klouda's crime was being a woman at the wrong place and time.
Personally, I think SWBTS should give her back the money she spent on a PhD there. They owe it to her because they allowed her to pursue a PhD there under false pretenses.
And Patterson should be fired.
Lydia
Robert Masters,
Why don't you ask Sheri Klouda what she thanks of Wade Burleson. I have. She says that Wade and his church restored her daughters faith in the people of Christ. Doesn't sound like you have a clue of what you are talking about above.
Sharon
I know I'm late on this discussion. I haven't read the comment either. So, i don't know if this has been stated already.
How can you say with definiteness that the world isn't coming to an end? maybe it is,maybe it isn't. you can't state for sure either way.
I don't find the pastors comment extremist at all. And I completely agree with your comments about God ordaining all this.
Just because God ordained him doesn't make him great, right, and safe.
I think you jumped the fence to the other extreme.
I just preached this past week about honoring and respecting the president God has ordained us to have. But I'll also state my legit concerns that he is probably one of the most dangerous presidents we have ever had.
CB,
You act like a moron. I will refrain, at the urging of our host, from calling you one.
But you act like one.
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