That Which Unites Us Is the Gospel of Christ
And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him . . . And He opened the book, and found the place where it was written, ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are downtrodden, to proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.' And He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant, and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed upon Him (Luke 4:17-20).
Several months ago I received a phone call from Attorney Dan Malone in El Paso, Texas. Dan requested that I consider meeting with former President Jimmy Carter about the former Presidnent's desire for a convocation called 'The Celebration of a New Baptist Covenant' to be held January 30-February 1, 2008 in Atlanta, Georgia.
Frankly, I did not think much about the phone call at the time, but have since discovered that Dan Malone is a very intelligent and persistent Baptist layman from Texas who wishes all Baptists to live at peace and harmony with one another. He eventually arranged the meeting for yesterday, May 17, 2007, in Atlanta, Georgia at the Carter Center - which is located next door to the Carter Presidential Library and Museum. Marty Duren, C.B. Scott, and Ben Cole joined Dan and I in visiting with President Carter.
I learned during the meeting with President Carter several things about the convocation early next year:
(1). The theme of 'The Celebration of a New Baptist Covenant' is based on the first sermon Jesus preached (Luke 4:27-30), and there is a very conscientious effort to keep the convocation focused on those things Jesus said He came to accomplish.
(2). All four major United States African-American Baptist Conventions have moved their national meetings to the week of the convocation so their members can stay and participate. With their involvement, this very well might be the largest and most ethnically diverse Baptist convocation in history.
(3). Because a few have alleged that the convocation is nothing more than a 'Democratic' primary disguised as a Baptist gathering, the organizers have intentionally invited, and received acceptances from, key Republican Baptist leaders. These include Republican Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee; South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham; and Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley. However, it was reiterated to us time and time again that the meeting was about the gospel - not politics - and Baptists from every political background and ethnicity were being invited.
(4). If it was said once, it was said a half dozen times -- there is no desire by anyone participating in organizing the convocation to begin any new convention, any new denomination or any new Baptist entity. Everyone wishes to maintain autonomy. The goal is simply to convocate, dialogue, build relationships and ultimately encourage one another in the fulfillment of the Great Commission, and to rejoice over what others are accomplishing.
(5). We were asked to assist in informing Southern Baptists that the goal of the convocation is to focus on what we have in common (Luke 4:17-20) rather than that which divides us. In addition, we were asked specifically to contact a couple of Southern Baptists to request them to speak during the plenary sessions.
My Impressions of the Meeting
I was impressed with President Carter's humility, mental acumen at age eighty three, and his gentle manner. He was very sincere in expressing his desire that Baptists unite around the fundamentals of the gospel of Jesus Christ at this convocation and lay aside all political and minor doctrinal differences for the greater purpose of building the kingdom of Christ. Not once was a negative word spoken about anyone. Not once was there expressed critical statements about the SBC or SBC leadership. Rather, there was a repeated desire expressed that everyone in the SBC feel welcome and a fully participating partner at the convocation.
The discussions for an hour were around the world's need of Jesus Christ and the great possibilities if Baptist Christians were to unite to help eradicate some of the major problems in our world including poverty, disease and injustice. President Carter shared that he teaches anywhere between 200 to 600 guests who attend his Sunday School class during the forty weeks out of the year he is at First Baptist Church, Plains, Georgia. He still uses the traditional Southern Baptist literature (he's been teaching Revelation the last four weeks), but makes it a point to share the gospel of Christ every Sunday because there are people who have come to hear him preach that are in need of Christ. Mr. Carter keeps the main thing the main thing on Sunday morning.
The prayer time at our meeting yesterday was truly a prayer time. The Spirit was present, the words were heartfelt, and the yearning for God to send revival among all Baptists very real. I am not sure what the outcome of the meeting may ultimately be, but I can assure you that it was refreshing to be someplace where discussions of denominational or national politics were taboo, discussions of Christ and kingdom ministry encouraged, and the ideas of all parties respected.
What I Anticipate
Driving back from Will Rogers Airport this evening my wife asked me if I was prepared for those who would seek to crucify me for meeting with President Carter. She said that she was already tensing because of the realization that some would attack my character, my theology, my commitment to the SBC, etc . . .
I smiled to myself and told her to relax. I then said this:
"There is no Christian that I have ever met - not one - Southern Baptist or not, who would EVER be offended or disturbed by what was discussed around that conference table at the Carter Center today."
She agreed with me, but she also said that the problem is some Southern Baptists are so entrenched in their views of others that they refuse to even begin talking. I told her that it was my desire to help Southern Baptists see that fellow Baptists are NOT the enemy. We can keep our unique way of doing missions in the SBC; we can keep our distinct structure and autonomy as the SBC; we can keep others out who will not affirm the BFM if we so choose; but we don't have to keep acting as if other Baptist Christians are our competitors or our opponents.
The Difficulty We Must Overcome
At the DFW Airport on my way back from Atlanta I ran into a very well known oil executive from Oklahoma who has been a friend of mine for several years. He is a Southern Baptist and we have served on different boards together within the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma. He asked me where I had been and I told him of the meeting with President Carter.
Immediately a cloud came over his face and he said that Carter was a terrible politician. He then mentioned something that Carter had done in Venezuela regarding oil that damaged the USA's oil interests (including the company with whom this man was associated). I am quite sure that my friend knew exactly what he was talking about, and I am even almost certain I would agree with him if I knew all the details of that to which he was referring.
However, what troubled me was the cloud that came over my friend's face at the mention of Carter's name. It seemed to me that his views of Carter's business and political decisions trumped his views of Carter's decision to follow Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. In other words, the man had a hard time getting past politics and business to see a brother in Christ.
My prayer is that we as Southern Baptists can get to the point where our relationship with Christ and each other is more important than our political, philosophical or national ideology. We are part of a kingdom that transcends the natural. It is eternal and spiritual. The head of that kingdom is Christ and He himself said By this shall all men know that you are my disciples; if ye have love one for another.
I shall maintain my conservative values. I have no desire, nor shall I ever have a desire, to recant my conservative beliefs. My love for Scripture and its sufficiency in my life for faith and practice is a bulwark against theological liberalism. I am who I am. However, I refuse to let others define who or who is not my brother in Christ. Nor will I relent to the demands that I not associate with those Baptist brothers who are different than I.
It's time we focused on what unites us with other Baptists instead of what divides us from other Baptists.
In His Grace,
Wade Burleson


144 Comments:
The first comment?
Wade, it was good to see you yesterday. Thanks for the invite and I pray that things will go well in any way the the Lord my have us to go.
We just need to get Ben to pray more "beautiful prayers."
Wade,
I expressed on Ben's blog (using a variation of my blog name - radreformfan) that I'm extremely encouraged by the steps that you all took to attend the meeting with President Carter and Bill Underwood. I share Rachelle's concern that you and your fellow bloggers who attended will be further subjected to false accusations of liberalism for associating with moderate Baptists, but I commend you for your willingness to dialogue with fellow Baptists about such important issues.
I shared on Ben's blog that I see the potential in the Celebration of a New Baptist Covenant for many of the scars generated by the Conservative Resurgence to be healed. The key I believe as you well express in this post is to not allow others to define for you who is or is not a brother in Christ. There's been far too much of that taking place in recent years.
Rex Ray said…
An old saying goes like this:
“I don’t like that dog!”
“Why?”
“I don’t like the dog he runs around with.”
Wade, you said, “What troubled me was the cloud that came over my friend’s face at the mention of Carter’s name.”
I’ll bet that “cloud” was not as dark as the cloud when people say, “CLINTON?”
I respect Carter very much, but why in the world did he hook up with Clinton?
At present, Clinton may be as ‘good as gold’ or the most repentant Christian in the world, but because of his past actions he will always be remembered as a joke in representing Christian moral principles.
In my opinion, Carter shot himself in the foot when he let Clinton join him.
I believe in most Baptist minds, if the convocation is to be a success, Clinton should fade out of the picture.
I’m glad you didn’t mention him.
Wade,
Great Post! I have followed your blog for some time now. We disagree on numerous issues but you sound like someone with whom I could be friends.
Too many anonywusses out today.
Marty,
What is the difference in someone posting with out a name and you posting with a name but not showing your profile?
This is what I read when I clicked on your name:
"The Blogger Profile you requested cannot be displayed. Many Blogger users have not yet elected to publicly share their Profile. If you're a Blogger user, we encourage you to enable access to your Profile."
Just a wee thought...
IMBM
IMBM-
It could be because I've been using www.sbcoutpost.com for almost a year; the blogger link to which you've been referred is old. I've never elected a "private" display, so I'll have to check that out.
I have used my name from Day 1 in all comments.
IMBM-
Try it now.
Wade, I'm proud of you and the others who went to talk to the president.
BTW, did you read Sam Storms post yesterday on Fundamentalism. Opened my eyes to an historical look and a clearer look at what it means today.
This post is an example of those who look through that lense and those who don't.
Thank you guys for your willingness to venture outside the camp.
Wade,
It begs a question for me. Is there ANY doctrinal stance, moral conviction, theological camp, etc. that a "Baptist" could hold to and publicly proclaim that would exclude you linking up with them in ministry?
Dear Wade,
It's been so long since we've chatted, my Brother! I see you have been quite the travelling man of late.
And how disappointed I am you did not contact me. Heck, I would have met you at Hartsfield less than an hour away for me and had a delicious cup with you. Perhaps next time...
Whatever gave you or your dear bride the idea you would be crucified for meeting NCBs, I hardly can tell. To your "enemies" it makes perfect sense and to your supporters, you have the Amen.
To folk like myself, who fit nicely in neither of the above, simple says a man has a right to associate with whom he darn well pleases and people who don't like it, they can just go to...well, you get the picture, do you not?
The most striking thing, at least from my side of the street, is the title of your post, Wade: "That Which Unites Us is the Gospel of Christ." I think that is one cool--not to mention, Scriptural--principle by which various Christian traditions unite as, what F. Schaeffer dubbed, "co-belligerents" to accomplish a common goal.
Presently, I am heavily involved in a major evangelistic project for a metropolitan city where the Executive Team is made up of United Methodists, Baptists, Disciples, Church of God, Wesleyan. Not to mention last evening we excitedly signed on the Associate Pastor of a large Foursquare Church to lead the women's project (don't tell anybody the Associate Pastor is a woman though:^).
Our working paradigm is very similar to yours, Wade: "That Which Unites Us Is The Gospel of Christ."
And while that principle works nicely pulling together various Christian traditions as evangelistic co-belligerents, precioely how it is supposed to be the working principle between Baptist and Baptist sails on by me deep into the night.
I fear we continue to drift toward a cloudy, quasi-baptistic like existence in which being Baptist can mean just about anything one wants it to mean...A sorta religious relativism, if you will: What's Baptist for You is Not Baptist for Me. Professor Fletcher would be proud.
Have a day of grace, Wade. With that, I am...
Peter
3 prominent Republicans join Carter, Clinton, Gore on New Covenant roster
By Greg Warner
Published May 17, 2007
ATLANTA (ABP) -- Organizers for next January's New Baptist Covenant gathering announced the speakers for the historic three-day meeting -- with former President Jimmy Carter making good on a pledge to enlist prominent Republican Baptists to complement the mostly Democratic headliners.
Republican Senators Lindsay Graham (S.C.) and Charles Grassley (Iowa) join Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee as recently named participants for the Jan. 30-Feb. 1 New Baptist Covenant Celebration in Atlanta, billed as the broadest Baptist meeting in America since Baptists divided over slavery before the Civil War.
Carter, Clinton and Gore?
Brother Wade - perhaps you aren't to experienced in the art of political operations. Please don't be so naive to believe that this is only about the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God?
This meeting is about the "world", not the "Kingdom".
Did you asked President Carter if he plans to apologize to all the Southern Baptist he has maligned during our family fight and why
doen't he invite our National leaders Himself ?
"That Which Unites Us is the Gospel of Christ."
Nice expression. Nice view. Now let's examine what Jimmy Carter believes about the Gospel.
He considers Mormons to be Christians (apologies for the possible broken links) -- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/16/AR2007021601704.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17723147/site/newsweek/page/2/
He does not believe and even argues against evangelism of the Jewish people --
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=14032
I will offer no editorial comment. I will simply allow the readeres to decide after reading the web articles for themselves.
Wade,
I agree with your statement, "That which unites us is the Gospel of Christ." However, we must agree on what the Gospel is. That is our first task. Jimmy Carter has made some very public comments that call into question his belief in the exclusivity of Christ. He has stated that Mormons do not need to be evangelized because they are Christians, which calls into question his understanding of Mormonism, Christianity, or both. He has also made similar statements about Jews.
Wade, I appreciate your desire for dialog and wish to bring people together. However, if we have to paper over the Gospel for unity, such unity is not worth having.
In Christ,
Tony
Wade,
It was good to talk with you as you drove from OKC to Enid last night and to hear of the meeting in Atlanta.
I have some reservations about politicians of any stripe much as I do about SBC politicians. Were there to be an attempt to make this a political rallying point for a presidential bid by anyone, Republican or Democrat, I would struggle with that tremendously as I know you would.
It is the same struggle I have with politicians addressing the convention with messages other than the gospel or how to promote the gospel being proclaimed. I love America, but "Americanism" is not our message.
I, as do you, have problems with some of the non biblical views of sinfulness and life some of the Republicans AND Democrats have and always will continue to struggle as I determine who it is that will get my vote.
This is much like my struggle with some SBC folks about what is right and wrong biblically in other areas and even some lack of ethical behavior I see in some SBCers from my perspective.
That said, I REALLY like the idea of rallying around the message of Christ and His work on the Cross for humanity and telling the nations of that work.
I also like the idea of not letting anyone say with whom I should or should not link hearts and hands.
My encouragement to you is to continue to rejoice over the fact that the gospel is preached even if it is by some that don't exactly fit in with our group. I think there is biblical precedent for that.
I would also encourage you and others, as even I must myself, leave the judgment of people to the one who truly knows the heart. He does and will.
Our message is and always must be the gospel. "Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the Gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you unless you believed in vain.
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures."
That is our message and may we be diligent is seeing that it is declared to the nations, including America.
Dad
May we be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
'Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice.'
Paul didn't seem to be worried about motives.
Heath-
That is the goal.
Motives? Maybe, maybe not. But he sure was concerned about doctrine...
To those posting anonymously please remember that I have IP addresses and I do not consider it funny when one who has been previously identified on this blog comes back and pretends to be someone he is not.
Christian character demands honesty and integrity and I feel you are lacking in both.
"Amen" to what Heath said.
Wade,
I share your wife's concerns and the concerns of many about the potential conflicts. I would hope that people who are aware of carter's drift from an exclusive gospel will find away of expressing that without attacking you. I think that the spirit of your attempts is greatly needed by all of us and I commend you for it. However, I think that some clarifications on the gospel are going to be necessary.
If the purpose of the convocation is about how we can come together to alleviate suffering then it is easy to get past our differences. We do disaster relief with all sorts of believers and non-believers. But if the emphasis is going to be our union around the gospel then we must be united around the same gospel. I am not even remotely questioning your integrity on the gospel. I am not sure if we have enough information to reject Carter's. However, we do have enough public confusion derived fromhis own comments that we must question what he considers the gospel to be.
To those who are expressing these concerns with typical mean spirited attacks I simply plead with you to drop it. The chest beating bravado in "defense" of the gospel is nothing less than an man made obstacle to the gospel.
Wade: I am excited to read your take on the Celebration. I spent most of yesterday in Atlanta with others planning to make this historic gathering the best it can possibly be. Later in the day we also got to meet with former President Carter yesterday and I was also impressed with his desire for this gathering.
I know you are going to be criticized by some but that is going to happen no matter what. I think those who attack you for this need to work on putting aside the anger they have toward their Baptist brothers and sisters in Christ. This is going to be a great demonstration of Baptist unity. I’ve written more about this here.
wade,
how can you encourage joining around the gospel of Christ with someone who doesnt even believe the gospel? and, would you not consider the gospel an essential of the faith?
apparently, mr. carter denies that Jesus is the only way to heaven. who knows what bill clinton believes.
david.....volfan007
Dear Marty,
What a great pic of you Big Daddy Weave posted. Ben, you and Wade all together. Hey! Wait a minute! B,M,W...BMW--The Beamer Boyz!
I count it faintly comical that, with all the posthumous criticism of our dear Dr. Falwell and his in-bed relationship with politics--especially criticism from moderate Baptists--that the Beamer Boyz find themselves on a picnic with political celebrities while our moderate brothers drip with ooh and ahh.
Peace, Marty. With that, I am...
Peter
p.s. I'll give the link to my Pastor. He'll give you what for!
Marty,
I wish everyone could have heard Mr. Carter express his opposition to abortion at the meeting and his puzzlement at why people attack him without knowing him or his positions. In addition, for someone to allege Mr. Carter does is a universalist and does not teach and preach the exclusivity of Christ is also puzzling. I can assure you that his love for missions, consistent Bible teaching on Sunday morning to those in need of Christ, and as one of the principle architects of the 1978 Bold Mission Thrust does not jive with that view.
I do not agree with Carter about everything theologically -- never have, never will. I just believe it is time that Southern Baptists practice more grace and wisdom before attacking another Baptist. In fact, Carter pointed out that he stills consider himself a Southern Baptist. His church gives half of their mission funds to the International Mission Board of the SBC and raises money for Lottie Moon.
Wade,
I too like the idea of Christians cooperating together for the gospel. Our church plant has worked hard to work with the few tiny churches that still have the gospel. However, I would echo the concern of others that the gospel according to Jimmy Carter is not the gospel according to the Bible. I will not reiterate the reasons as others have.
Paul pointed out accurately that holding to a deficient gospel is found on both sides of the political aisle. However, if it is as you stated, this gathering is not political, so we need not be concerned with their political parties.
My main question, and this is in no way intended as a slight to you, Ben, or Marty: Why, if they want to invite Southern Baptists, would the three of you be their chosen emissaries? Seems like an odd approach. Might it be that they see you, correctly or incorrectly, as leading a dissident movement within the SBC?
Wade,
I remember Dr. Rogers saying that President Carter had made some false accusations about the statements of which Dr. Rogers did not remember making. He has shown is desire for damage to the SBC more than once. I began reading your blog about a year ago with great interest. I then became somewhat supportive of you. Since the Klouda issue I have begun to disagree with you on most issues. I must say, this issue pretty well seals the fact, in my opinion, that you have either began walking down a road that may be very difficult to recover from [a la Clayton Sullivan] or your motives are in question from the get go. I will not decide which one, as it is not my place to do so. I simply conclude this: this is the most definitive post of all. One need not question where you stand any longer. You stand outside the realm of orthodoxy and within the realm of gospel compromise. I do not believe one should villify Carter, simply we should speak the truth and recognize that the god he speaks of is one other than the One revealed in Scripture. I do not say that with hate nor anger, only an observation of the press releases already linked by writers above. Wade, do not let the political stars blind your eyes to truth. I, a spooky fundamentalist by your definition, did not agree with Dr. Falwell's political inclinations, nor can I agree with this. I am sure you could care less about my personal opinion, but know this, your attempts to broaden the tent are now working to shrink the tent. As a matter of fact, at best, you have simply chopped off the right side of the tent to re-sew it onto the left. My opinion... this is the gravest mistake you have made to date. The goal is not for the SBC to become bigger, but more faithful. This effort will not accomplish said goal. May San Antonio come quickly that the rhetoric may end and the work continue.
With Grace,
John B.
Good call Brad.
Wade,
the interviews and articles are out there where Carter shares his views on the gospel. I just read three of them. How could anyone miss the confusion and compromise in his answers about:
1) Is Jesus the only way to heaven?
2) Are mormons Christians?
He's left little room for doubt as to where he stands. Remember,he was the president. He knows how to put a spin on things so that all sides involved believes he agrees with them.
Amen, wade. Way to go.
To all who are quick with the criticism: who are you to judge another's servants? "who knows what Clinton believes" someone said. Well, for starters, that he is a follower of Christ? Just maybe? Ask yourself this: how many ministers have had an affair exposed in public? Now, how many of those had their salvation questioned? Don't confuse an all-too-common human frailty on the part of a leader with a lack of a desire to follow Christ. When you do that, you are on dangerous ground. I have honestly, really, lost patience with this kind of talk over the last few weeks. We, as Christians in America, have proven that we lack the ability to forgive as Jesus taught us to by the way we have treated former president Clinton. Quite frankly, we need to get over it.
In Christ,
Tim Cook
Brother Tim,
Not to get side-tracked, but...
Restoration comes with repentance. What does the Bible say we are to do with the brother who is not repentant?
I have never heard public repentance from Clinton. Does that mean I don't personally have a forgiving heart for him? No. But neither does it mean I should treat him as one of the brethren.
Brad,
"In October 1998, Baptist Press reported that Clinton had written a letter to his 4,500-member church asking for forgiveness. Clinton, Horne told the Arkansas Baptist newsmagazine at the time, had “expressed repentance for his actions, sadness for the consequence of his sin on his family, friends and church family, and asked forgiveness from Immanuel.” According to church records, Clinton had been a member of the church since 1980."
Full article here: http://www.bpnews.org/bpnews.asp?ID=24982
I find no fault in how Clinton's church handled things, though I don't know all the details (and don't need to)
I do agree with need to let Clinton's past sins go b/c of his repentance.
I do not trust Clinton nor agree with his religious views, but we must forgive and forget.
On another site, my friend Dr. Bart Barber quoted Mr. Carter (see quote below) and said Mr. Carter denied the exclusivity of Christ. My answer to Bart follows the quote:
Question to Carter: Your first lesson on Ephesians describes man's reconciliation to God through grace and the sacrifice of Christ. Do you believe that grace ultimately applies to people who don't presently believe in Jesus?
Answer from Carter: Yes, I do. I remember two things. One is that in John 3:16, which is probably the best known verse in the Bible - "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son."
And Jesus, in the Sermon on the Mount, for instance, said we should love our neighbors, but also love those who despise us and hate us and our enemies. So, the opportunity for everyone to be saved through the grace of God with faith in Christ applies to everyone.
And I have been asked often, you know, in my Sunday School classes, which are kind of a give and take debate with people from many nations and many faiths - what about those that don't publicly accept Christ, are they condemned? And I remember that Christ said, "Judge not that ye be not judged."
And so, my own personal belief is one of God's forgiveness and God's grace. That's the best answer I can give.
Bart, are you alleging that Mr. Carter does not believe in the exclusivity of Christ? Obviously, if that were so, he would not be an evangelical believer in the good news of Christ. However, after personal conversation with him it sounds to me like he is truly an evangelical with a desire to take the gospel to the nations.
The quote you use simply tells me that Mr. Carter believes in common grace. Bart, I think you would agree with Mr. Carter that the 'grace' of God extends to every man, would you not? You and I may be more precise and call this 'common' grace, but not one time have I ever heard Mr. Carter say 'saving' grace is a possession of all men -- it is a gift only to those who trust Christ.
He was quite clear with us yesterday that faith in Jesus Christ and His work at Calvary is the only hope for a sinner. You allege his answer belies a hidden universalism. I disagree. Ultimately, the only way to know is to ask him and talk with him. I'm wondering when you visited with him about your concern?
Dialogue, a gracious heart, and a willingness to listen is the only way to determine where there is agreement. Until and unless Mr. Carter clearly denies the exclusivity of Christ, I'll take his word to me that he does not.
Chris,
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I was unaware of it. I stand corrected. While I stand by the principle, I have obviously been proven wrong in this case, and publicly repent.
The tone of some who are criticizing Wade concerns me. To suggest that Wade has motives other than those he states is to go into areas of judgment that are clearly unbiblical.
I also have concerns about President Carter's orthodoxy, based upon public statements he has made. But, I find Wade's personal conversation with Carter to be intriguing. If President Carter would make a clear public statement of his belief that salvation is only through personal faith in Jesus Christ, it would go far in allaying the concerns of those of us who are familiar with his previous public statements.
Tony
Wade,
Why don't you ask him?
"President Carter, do you believe that faith in Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven and that those who have not put their faith in Jesus will face an eternity separated from the Lord in hell?"
Join me in calling for Carter to make a clear public statement where he stands.
Of course, with his clear statement that mormons are Christians too, it begs the question which "Jesus" and does it matter?
I have trouble with the "Forgive and forget" thing. Mainly because I cannot forget things.
But neither does God. As I recall, God says He will remember our sins no more. That word means "call to mind". He doesn't promise not to forget it, He promises never to bring it up, and if we bring it up, He remembers He forgave it, too.
I like that better, and it ties in with instructions I heard from my mentor years & years ago: forgive, and remember it as forgiven.
And never call it back to mind.
Kudos to you, Wade, and the others who met with Carter and Underwood.
I see the attack Jimmy-fest has begun in several of these comments. The Celebration is not about his theology nor his politics. Carter was needed to organize the event. More often than not, you need a "big name" to make a simple dream into a reality. I'm thankful Carter was willing to lend a helping hand.
But a focus on Jimmy Carter is a red herring.
Let's talk not about one man. But, if we must, let's have a talk about the participating organizations including all of the African-American denoms, North American Baptist Conference, Lott Carey, and others that are JUST AS if not more theologically conservative than the average Southern Baptist.
Dear Those,
To question the action and/or prudence, Those, of a Brother--in this case, Wade's decision to eat at the table with a democratic who's who--is not quite the same as questioning his motives or heart for doing so.
Hence, this chatter from Those about "who are you to judge your brother" or "Why are we questioning Wade's motive's" stands moot.
With that, I am...
Peter
Questioning Wade, his motives, his judgments, his actions - hardly moot.
It happens here every day, many times HERE and on Blogs too numerous to mention.
Strange to me, especially with a man who has always been, in my experience with him, honest and open.
I wish we were all so 'obvious.'
Wise words Big Daddy
My Brother BDW,
I may be mistaken, but you are welcome to correct me. Have you not made it a point more than once to question the politically adulterous liason of SBC leaders like say, Dr. land, for his much too cozy relationship with political republicans?
If I am anywhere near target, it surely seems odd to offer kudos to BMW for warmly cuddling up to political democrats, does it not?
Grace. With that, I am...
Peter
Alycelee,
I can say it no clearer. "Wade, I do not question your motives. I disagree with you."
Peter, amen.
Grace,
John B.
Peter,
I am a Republican politically. I am a hard line conservative fiscally, politically and ideaologically. The only people I get 'cozy' with politically are those I agree with politically.
I'm not sure that I will ever be able to convince you that the gospel transcends politics. I do not agree with Carter's politics, but I can unite with other Baptists who come from diverse political, social, ethnic and cultural backgrounds for the advancement of the gospel.
Wade:
One truth that often gets missed in this kind of discussion:
How do you know where and when you can work with another person in Kingdom enterprises unless you meet them, visit with them, pray with them, and seek areas of common ground?
What is the wisdom in determining you cannot work with someone without talking to them?
And what is the virtue in refusing to talk with them?
BSC
Dear Alycelee,
Good afternoon, my sister. I suppose your words, though not directly, were in response to my post. You wrote: "Questioning Wade, his motives, his judgments, his actions - hardly moot."
I agree wholeheartedly with part of your statement--"...his motives..."--and its implication. Personally, I think one is in deep trouble trying to scale the mountain of discerning motives. And, while I'm unsure you were implying such, we surely can agree that no man's actions or judgements stand beyond question.
Grace, Alycelee. With that, I am...
Peter
Maybe I'm missing something but I fail to see how discussing Jimmy Carter's orthodoxy is a red herring. The conference organizers chose Carter and Clinton for publicity purposes because they are public figures who are Baptists. The conference is a celebration of Baptist identity. Endemic to any discussion of Baptist identity is the nature of the Gospel we are to rally around. Therefore, in my mind, a discussion of the orthodoxy, or lack thereof, of those who have become the public face of this conference, is extremely pertinent.
Peter,
Simple answer, Celebration of the New Baptist Covenant is not a political event. NBC is not proposing partisan legislation or policies of any kind. Carter's role is as a well-known Baptist layman with lots of pull and influence. Perhaps, only he can get the ball rolling to make such an occasion possible.
All those who attend, whether CBF, SBC, or National Baptist will get the hear the wonderful preaching of my pastor, Julie Pennington-Russell, William Shaw, Charles Adams, and Joel Gregory. I'm sure more speakers will be named later.
Those in attendance will also hear from Democrat Baptists as well as Republican Baptists including Mike Huckabee, Charles Grassley, and Lindsey Graham. All will be speaking as committed Baptists.
Dear Wade,
Good afternoon. You oddly write: "I'm not sure that I will ever be able to convince you that the gospel transcends politics."
Convince me? To assume, as do you, Wade, that somehow I believe such a truncated gospel demonstrates, at least to me, an evident void in our conversations. Facinating.
Peace, Wade. With that, I am...
Peter
We seem so easily to translate disagreement into enmity, especially where politics are concerned. You can disagree with someone's politics and still consider them a friend, or partner with them in areas where you do agree.
This reminds me a lot of the flack Rick Warren took for hosting Obama at Saddleback. The same rational applies: God wants us to do something to help hurting people. We should help hurting people with whoever will help us do that. period. I hear a lot of talk coming from this effort to organize Baptists about social justice, poverty, and similar things. If we can agree with Carter and Clinton on those issues, can we not allow their influence to assist us in helping people who need help? Incorrect theology on the part of some of the participants does not negate the glory that would be given to God if this effort actually translates into more love, more unity, and more people reached with good news ( I mean good news both as in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and also "Your child can go to a hospital" or "you can drink clean water". that is good news, amen?). Rather than offering endless criticism, let us pray for everyone involved and pray that God use this for HIS purposes, regardless of the motives of the people involved.
In Christ,
Tim Cook
Excellent point Ben.
And Tim
Dear BDW,
All who believe that, stand on their head.
With that, I am...
Peter
p.s. Note, BDW, many of Wade's otherwise supporters, contrary to my prediction, are not standing on their heads either.
Peter
Wade,
What exactly do the planners of the conference plan to accomplish? What would you like to see accomplished by the conference? What I have read about the conference, I find the goals to be somewhat vague. Please clarify.
Gene
Gleason
tim cook,
this aint about politics. it's about joining with people who deny the inerrancy of scripture,and who deny that Jesus is the only way to heaven...amongst other things that are against God's Word.
david...volfan007
Peter,
I, for one, believe what BDW is saying.
In fact, that was the SOLE reason for agreeing to the meeting. To confirm that the convocation in January was to be exactly like BDW described.
I am convinced that the purpose of the meeting is EXACTLY as BDW described. If it were for any other reason I could not, and would not, see any benefit to it.
Peter,
You're in the Atlanta-area I believe? Next January you'll have to check it out. You might just be surprised.
If you do, I'll introduce you to several of the historians that you often quote on your blog.
Gleason,
Dialogue, encouragement, partnering in missions with each other, and fostering a spirit of placing the gospel above everything else are the stated goals.
Nobody desires anyone to change. Nobody desires the creation of any new entity, convention, or denomination. Everyone wishes to express appreciation and acceptance of the differences, while emphasizing what it is we have in common -- salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and a desire to help the world through the words and works of the gospel (those were the exact words given to us).
Sorry folks, but I'm off for my Friday golf game. :) That trumps everything on Friday afternoon!
I thought Carter was a poor president also but actually no worse than our current president George Bush. It's a toss up for me between the two. The point is, as you stated, can't we love each other as Christians and not let our differences politically or doctrinally in non-essential areas damage our fellowship? I imagine that Jimmy Carter would be much stronger in this area than most of the fundemental conservative Repubican chritians that we know.
Bobby Brown
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Wade's last post was his best. This is my off day and I think I'll follow his lead.
One more thing...Wade wrote, "Dialogue, encouragement, partnering in missions with each other, and fostering a spirit of placing the gospel above everything else are the stated goals [of the conference]"
All of these plus the social activism of helping the poor are very commendable and are things we should be doing. However, if we cannot agree on what the Gospel is, we would be best to pursue these laudatory actions separately.
God is never glorified by a unity that disregards the primary thing that we should be unified about.
Sola Dei Gloria
To me, Carter seems like a wonderful man, and I would jump at the opportunity to spend time with him.
I have been alarmed recently, though, by his comments on the Mormons in Newsweek. Under the surface of what appears to be a wonderful organization, the Mormons disagree with biblical and historic Christian orthodoxy, concerning the person of Christ and salvation.
Yet Carter believes that Mormons are no different than Christians, according to recent and past comments.
I don't know if you had the chance to ask him about this, but it seems that he is willing to blur the lines of Christian orthodoxy, in order to promote better Christian orthopraxy.
Can we be truly unified if we disagree on essential aspects of Christology?
Can we preach contrary gospel messages and still unify ourselves under the cross (Galatians 1:8-9)?
Wade,
May I ask again, as you may have missed it earlier: Did you wonder why you, Ben, and marty were selected for this honor of being the emissaries to Southern Baptists?
I certainly would have accepted the invitation as well. I just wondered if the thought crossed your mind.
Thanks.
A few observations about the Carter quotes referenced by Bart Barber:
The quotes came from an interview by Elizabeth Sams on Beliefnet.com. Here is the title she gave for the interview: “Jimmy Carter, Sunday School Teacher: The former president on why he believes Jesus will save everyone, and how his faith complicated—and sustained—his presidency.”
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/214/story_21478_1.html
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Notice that only the first half of John 3:16 was given in the interview.
Here is the key part of the interview:
“And I have been asked often, you know, in my Sunday School classes, which are kind of a give and take debate with people from many nations and many faiths - what about those that don't publicly accept Christ, are they condemned? And I remember that Christ said, ‘Judge not that ye be not judged.’ And so, my own personal belief is one of God's forgiven