Decide for Yourself
Transcript of chapel sermon by Rev. Dwight McKissic
Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary
August 29, 2006
__________________________
Good morning:
I’m delighted to be here today to share in this chapel service and, it reminds me, Dr. Patterson, when I came to Southeastern I went looking for a stoic and staid worship service, and it was much alive out there. And I have really appreciated this group of singers today, and that musician – we are looking for a pianist at my church and I want to talk to you afterwards and see if you’re looking for a job. Don’t go away because I need to see you before it’s over today.
I’m grateful for this opportunity to share today and I’m honored and privileged to serve as a trustee of Southwestern. I want to address a subject matter today. When I was asked to come and I asked the Lord about what he wanted me to share, he laid upon my heart a subject matter that took me many, many years in a pastorate to get a handle on. And I trust that this will help some of you who are probably also searching and grappling to get a handle on a subject that I want to address today. So I ask for your prayers as I deliver a message that I believe God has led me to share today.
I invite your attention to Acts chapter one, verse 5. Now I preached twelve minutes last time, so that means ya’ll owe me about thirty minutes today. Acts chapter one, verse five:
The words of Jesus.
He says, “For John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
I want to talk about the baptism and the filling of the Holy Spirit. There are seven passages in the New Testament which speak specifically of the baptism with the Spirit. Five of these passages refer to the baptism with the Spirit as a feature event. Four were spoken by John the Baptist (Mt 3:11; Mk 1:7-8; Lk 3:16; and Jn 1:33). One was spoken by Jesus after his resurrection. We just read it in this text, Acts 1:5. The expression “you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit” means that this action was to take place at one particular time.
The KJV tells us that this event was to take place “not many days hence.” John the Baptist and Jesus referred to the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a future, historical event. The sixth time we see this phrase “baptized with the Holy Spirit” is in Acts 11:16, referring to the baptism in the Spirit as a fulfilled promise.
In Acts 11:16, Peter uses the term in reference to Cornelius and his household, who had also receive the Holy Spirit. Peter viewed the Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit comparable with the Jews receiving the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, thus fulfilling the promises spoken by John the Baptist and Jesus.
The seventh, and last time we see this term, “baptize with the Holy Spirit,” is specifically mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:13. This passage speaks about the wider experience of all believers. We can conclude from these passages of Scripture that the baptism with the Holy Spirit was first of all a prophetic event fulfilled, a promised gift received, and a purposeful experience.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit may be properly defined as that activity of God whereby through his Spirit he brings the believer – at salvation – into a relationship with Christ and simultaneously into a relationship with the Body of Christ, the Church. So I want to raise a question today: Does the baptism in the Holy Spirit occur simultaneous with salvation or subsequent to salvation?
Don’t go to sleep on me now.
In the book of Acts we find four occasions for sure, and possibly five, where the baptism of the Holy Spirit occurred. No one occasion is identical to the other although there were some commonalities. In Acts 2:1-4, the 120 believers experienced the baptism and the filling of the Holy Spirit simultaneously accompanied with tongues at Pentecost. Also at Pentecost there were 3000 who received the gift of the Holy Spirit and salvation under the preaching of Peter, but no mention is made of them speaking in tongues.
The 120 were saved and received the baptism and filling of the Holy Spirit subsequent to salvation. The fact that the experience of the 120 was in two distinct stages was simply due to historical circumstances. They could not have receive the Pentecostal gift before Pentecost.
In Acts 8:12-17, we see where the Holy Spirit was received by the converts in Samaria after their water baptism. Philip preached the good news of the Kingdom of God and in the name of Jesus Christ they were baptized, both men and women. When Philip preached to Samaria, it was the first time that the gospel had been proclaimed outside Jerusalem. Evidently, because Samaritans and Jews had always been bitter enemies.
In Acts 8:16, it explains that although they were believers and had been baptized, the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon them. I believe that in this incidence and Samaria, God sovereignly withheld the Holy Spirit from them until Peter and John arrived so that they might see for themselves that God received even despised Samaritans who believed in Christ. There could be no question about it.
Also in Acts 8:26-40, we see the Holy Spirit directing Philip to go to Gaza to witness to an Ethiopian man. Thank God that the Ethiopians were included. The Ethiopian man, like the 3000 on the day of Pentecost, received the Word of God and was baptized. But there is no mention of tongues, a second baptism, or the laying on of hands. In verse 39 of Acts 8 it says he rejoiced in the Spirit as he got up out of the water when Philip baptized him.
Now Acts 2 is often referred to as the Jewish Pentecost, and Acts 8 is referred to as the Ethiopian Pentecost and the Samaritan Pentecost.
In Acts 10, verses 44-48, while Peter was preaching to Cornelius – the Italian, a Gentile – and his family and friends, the baptism and the gift of the Holy Spirit fell on this Gentile. Unlike at Samaria when the Holy Spirit was given after water baptism, these Gentiles were baptized with the Holy Spirit while Peter was yet preaching.
In other words, you can’t put God in a box. He does things like he wants to when he wants to. He’s the sovereign God. There is no formula.
In Acts 19:1-7, we find an encounter of Paul with the disciples of John the Baptist in Ephesus. Paul asked them, in verse 3, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” Behind the question is the assumption that this was usually when it happened – when you believe, when we believe, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, according to Ephesians 1. They pled ignorant of the Holy Spirit, stating that they had been baptized into John’s baptism.
Paul related John’s baptism to the ministry of Jesus, and they were baptized in water a second time and received the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Now to summarize this point: It is my belief that you cannot look to Acts for a fixed formula or a definite pattern as to how one receives the gift of the Holy Spirit. No one has the Spirit of God in a box. It is my belief that Pentecost instituted the Church, then all that remained was for Samaritans, Gentiles, Ethiopians, and Jews who were unaware of the gospel to be brought into the church representatively. This occurred in Acts 8 for Samaritans and Ethiopians; Acts 10 for Gentiles; and Acts 19 for the belated believers from John’s baptism. Once this representative baptism with the Holy Spirit had occurred the normal pattern applied. Baptism with the Spirit at the time that each person, of whatever background, believed on Jesus Christ. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is the initial experience of every believer at conversion.
Eph 1:3 says that “we have been blessed with spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” And one of those spiritual blessings, whether we realize it or not, that we received when we were saved is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Now the question that many of you will have to deal with when you pastor and people join your church from various backgrounds, influenced by television ministries and what have you, is the question, “Is speaking in tongues the evidence of being baptized with the Holy Spirit?”
That’s the question that every future pastor here will have to deal with. It’s something you will have to work out in your own theological pilgrimage. And the answer to that question, based on biblical authority, as far as I’m concerned, is “no.” Speaking in tongues is not the evidence of being baptized with the Holy Spirit.
However, I believe it is not the gift of the Holy Spirit, but the Bible makes it clear that for some it is a gift that God chooses to give to believers.
Now it was in 1981, on this campus, when I took a class from Dr. Jack Gray, a missions professor, that he was teaching on spiritual formations in the spiritual foundations class at the time. And I probably bought almost 1500 books, Dr. Patterson, just trying to figure out the Holy Spirit. Well over a $1000.00, and every book I would read would influence me and I would change my mind with every book.
I was a young preacher, a young pastor, called to a church at 21 years of age, and I was having to work through this issue. And Dr. Gray had a 50cent booklet in class that, had I purchased that book first, it would have answered all my questions for me.
[Laughter]
He spent a whole week speaking on the Holy Spirit, and he made this statement in class one day, and it changed my life. He said, “Up until 11 years ago I knew the Holy Spirit as a doctrine, then I met him as a person.”
[That’s right, Amen!]
He said, “I knew him as a doctrine, but then I met him as a person.” That statement riveted me that day. We also had a week of study and prayer in that class, and we would use Peter Lord’s 21/59 prayer guide, and I grew up in a traditional Baptist church that was very anti-tongues.
I remember when the tongues movement broke out in our church, my pastor preached a sermon against tongues. He said that Jesus never spoke in tongues, and he never commanded anybody to speak in tongues. He took a hard stand, and so I adopted the position of my pastor until I got to Southwestern Seminary and Dr. Gray passed out this booklet on the gifts of the Holy Spirit that validated the gifts. And I studied Jack MacGorman’s book on the Holy Spirit, and Billy Graham’s book on the Holy Spirit. I’ve even looked at Dr. Patterson’s First Corinthians commentary where not all Baptists believe that the gift of tongues went out with the completion of the New Testament.
Some of the foremost leaders and thinkers and theologians among Baptist life believe tongues is a valid gift for today. And at 12noon, Dr. Gray challenged us to establish a daily time of praying through Peter Lord’s prayer plan, and I was at Ft. Worth dormitory here. Twelve noon was my 29/59 prayer time, and every day I let nothing interfere with that.
I wasn’t seeking the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. I didn’t even believe in speaking in tongues. I was just going through my regular prayer time.
But I literally, on this campus, in the dormitory for the first time in my life, as I was praying, some strange words began to come out of my mouth. And I began to pinch myself and say, “what is this,” and the more I prayed I didn’t understand what I was saying. I said, “this must be what people call speaking in tongues.”
Now, I don’t believe that tongue-speaking is the evidence of the filling of the Spirit. Most of the religious scandals of our time have been led by men who practiced speaking in tongues. They certainly were not living a life that showed the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit.
But I think it’s tragic in Baptist life when we take a valid, vital gift that the Bible talks about and come up with a policy that says people who pray in tongues in their private prayer lives cannot work in certain positions. That to me is contrary to what many of our foremost Baptist thinkers and leaders think.
[Amens heard]
[Applause]
Well you can understand I’m not the most popular man in the world, but at my age I don’t preach for popularity or applause, I preach what I believe is the truth of the Word of God.
[Applause. Laughter]
So, I don’t believe it’s the evidence, but I’m here to say that as the Spirit gives me utterance I pray in tongues in my private prayer life, and I’m not ashamed of that. I’m thankful for that. I don’t believe it makes me spiritual or superior or inferior to anybody. I have no prejudice or bias against tongues; however, I must stand on biblical truth and not popular opinion.
I do believe that all spiritual gifts listed in Scripture are operable today, and by the grace of God some Christians will experience the gift of tongues when filled with the Holy Spirit, although the teaching that all Christians should experience speaking in tongues as evidence of being baptized in the Holy Ghost is unscriptural. The Scripture does not preclude speaking in tongues for some when they are filled with the Holy Spirit.
As the Spirit rushes into the corners of their lives, awakening new desires for prayer and praise, speaking in tongues will naturally flow forward in some. Whatever your spiritual gift is, if you are filled with the Holy Spirit, that gift will be used to the maximum.
Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 12:13 that all believers are baptized by the Holy Spirit, but he also makes it clear 1 Corinthians 12:30 that all do not speak with tongues. Now since all Christians do not speak in tongues, it cannot be the proof of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
There is only one baptism in the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:5). “One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” And I believer that’s referring to Holy Spirit that occurs at salvation. Being baptized is equated with being a child of God. Believers are never commanded in Scripture to be baptized, but to be filled with the Holy Spirit. As Dr. W.A. Criswell used to say, “one baptism, but many fillings.”
There is the ongoing filling ministry of the Spirit for power. There is only one baptism but many fillings. But all born-again believers are baptized in the Holy Ghost. All born again believers, who have experienced Jesus Christ as Lord, whether you’ve ever had a tongues speaking experience or not – you may never have one; that may not be God’s will for your life – but you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. And the purpose of this baptism is to place believers in the Body of Christ.
Even carnal Christians are seen in 1 Corinthians 12 as having been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
The filling of the Spirit means the whole control of the Spirit, then enthronement of Jesus as Lord. When a person receives salvation, baptism with the Spirit, or the gift of the Spirit, I believe the Holy Spirit is resident. But when you’re filled with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is then president.
The filling with the Holy Spirit makes one experience Jesus as complete Lord. It is God-intoxication. Not drunk with wine, but be filled with the Spirit. Paul wrote of bringing every thought captive to Jesus Christ, to acknowledge his authority in 2 Corinthians 10:5. The fullness of the Spirit is for that specific purpose and service to bring every thought captive.
The promise in Acts 1:8 was power. And the service was witnessing. The report in Acts 2:4-11 was that they were “all filled” and unbelievers heard them telling in their own tongues of the mighty works of God. In Acts 4:31, believers were filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the Word of God boldly. In Ephesians 5:18-21, the result of being filled with the Holy Spirit was that they would give thanks to God, that they would have submission in their lives, and they would acknowledge one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.
The fruit of the Holy Spirit is the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit, not one of his gifts. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit himself.
In conclusion, where does the Bible teach that all Christians are to speak in tongues as the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Nowhere.
I also believe that non-Pentecostal evangelicals must recognize that the gift of tongues is a legitimate spiritual gift – that it always has been and will be a part of the church until Jesus returns. Some believers will experience the gift of tongues, and some will not. Pentecostals need to recognize that tongues is not a sign of spiritual power, although it does edify the one who is speaking (1 Cor 14:4). Baptists and other evangelicals need to recognize the Spirit-filled life and the fact that the Holy Spirit desires to have intimate fellowship with us daily for empowerment, fellowship, service, comfort, and guidance.
Now for what most Pentecostals refer to as a baptism of the Holy Ghost, I refer to as the filling of the Holy Spirit. However, regardless of what terminology we use, we both agree we need the fullness of the Holy Spirit to render effective service for Christ for our families, and even on our jobs.
Now as I hurry to my seat, how to be filled with the Holy Spirit?
Dr. Gray, in his booklet has several suggestions.
You need to remember that the Holy Spirit lives in you now. Thank God for his presence. We refer to the Holy Spirit as an it but he’s a person. He shouldn’t be referred to as “it” but rather “he.”
Know that he will never leave you, according to Hebrews 13:5. We’ve been sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13-14). We need to get on our knees before God and thank him that he lives in our hearts now. We need to rejoice in him that he lives in us and he will never leave us. There is no complex formula given in the Bible or a certain order as to what do you do first, second, and third in order to be filled with the Holy Spirit. The Bible says ask and you shall receive. It’s God simple word to his children. There is nothing to fear in being filled with the Spirit. God blesses, Dr. Gray says, not blasts. He helps, not hurts.
To be filled with the Spirit is good, and will result in your good and God’s glory. It is as simple as this, and I’m not just preaching this for an academic purpose. I’m not just preaching this so that we’ll know more about the doctrine of the Holy Spirit. I agree with Dr. Gray. What I need, what you need, is to know him as a person.
When Paul said, “that I may know him and the power of his resurrection.” That same power that raised Christ Jesus from the dead, that was the Holy Spirit. I need to know him intimately. I need to know him experientially. I need to know him deeply. So to be filled we need to request him to fill us.
We need to repent of our sins as he directs. When I asked him recently to fill me afresh and anew with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit reminded me of a thank you letter I refused to send to my uncle because I was upset about something that had happened in my family, and the Lord made it clear to me that until I repented of that sin and sent him that thank you letter I would never enjoy his fullness.
And enjoying his fullness meant more to me than holding onto a grudge.
There may be some sin. There may be some insensitivity. There may be some issue in your life and in my life that keeps us from being filled. Ask the Lord to point that out to you. Ask him to search your heart, to try you, and if there be any wicked way in you, to lead you into a way everlasting. Believe him to fill you. Receive his filling. And we should do this daily.
Here’s what Jesus said if we want to be filled with the Holy Spirit. If you’re hungry, eat.
I love reading through a book of the Bible in chapel every day. That’s eating the Word of God. Blessed are they that hunger and thirst. If you’re thirsty, drink! Jesus said you’ll be satisfied, that you’ll never thirst again.
He says come unto me all you that labor and are heavy-laden, and I will do what? Give you rest!
I believe I was filled with the Holy Spirit the day I was saved. I believe I was filled with the Holy Spirit when I was 17 years of age, and I never spoke in tongues that time. I didn’t believe in speaking in tongues. But God got ahold of my life when I was planning on going to the University of Arkansas at Fayetteville to study political science. I wanted to join my brother’s law practice and become a lawyer. But I fasted for three days seeking God’s will for my life, and he called me into the ministry and led me to Ouachita Baptist University. It totally changed my life and my outlook on life and gave me new direction in life.
I believe I was filled with God’s precious Holy Spirit when I preached my first sermon at St. Paul Baptist Church in March of 1974. I believe that at different times in my life, God has filled me and anointed me for a specific purpose and a specific task. But I believe God also filled me with the Holy Spirit even in a dormitory room on this campus just crying out to God to be in the center of his perfect will. As the song-writer said:
Like the woman at the well, I was seeking.
Sometimes for things that could not satisfy.
But then I heard my Savior speaking,
Draw from the well that never shall run dry.
If you want to be filled today, all you have to is cry out:
Fill my cup, Lord.
I lift it up, Lord.
Come and quench this thirsting of my soul.
Bread of Heaven, feed me till I want to more.
Fill my, cup.
Fill it up, and make me whole.
One baptism…but many fillings.
Jesus said, “If you being evil will give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him.”
Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary
August 29, 2006
__________________________
Good morning:
I’m delighted to be here today to share in this chapel service and, it reminds me, Dr. Patterson, when I came to Southeastern I went looking for a stoic and staid worship service, and it was much alive out there. And I have really appreciated this group of singers today, and that musician – we are looking for a pianist at my church and I want to talk to you afterwards and see if you’re looking for a job. Don’t go away because I need to see you before it’s over today.
I’m grateful for this opportunity to share today and I’m honored and privileged to serve as a trustee of Southwestern. I want to address a subject matter today. When I was asked to come and I asked the Lord about what he wanted me to share, he laid upon my heart a subject matter that took me many, many years in a pastorate to get a handle on. And I trust that this will help some of you who are probably also searching and grappling to get a handle on a subject that I want to address today. So I ask for your prayers as I deliver a message that I believe God has led me to share today.
I invite your attention to Acts chapter one, verse 5. Now I preached twelve minutes last time, so that means ya’ll owe me about thirty minutes today. Acts chapter one, verse five:
The words of Jesus.
He says, “For John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
I want to talk about the baptism and the filling of the Holy Spirit. There are seven passages in the New Testament which speak specifically of the baptism with the Spirit. Five of these passages refer to the baptism with the Spirit as a feature event. Four were spoken by John the Baptist (Mt 3:11; Mk 1:7-8; Lk 3:16; and Jn 1:33). One was spoken by Jesus after his resurrection. We just read it in this text, Acts 1:5. The expression “you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit” means that this action was to take place at one particular time.
The KJV tells us that this event was to take place “not many days hence.” John the Baptist and Jesus referred to the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a future, historical event. The sixth time we see this phrase “baptized with the Holy Spirit” is in Acts 11:16, referring to the baptism in the Spirit as a fulfilled promise.
In Acts 11:16, Peter uses the term in reference to Cornelius and his household, who had also receive the Holy Spirit. Peter viewed the Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit comparable with the Jews receiving the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, thus fulfilling the promises spoken by John the Baptist and Jesus.
The seventh, and last time we see this term, “baptize with the Holy Spirit,” is specifically mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:13. This passage speaks about the wider experience of all believers. We can conclude from these passages of Scripture that the baptism with the Holy Spirit was first of all a prophetic event fulfilled, a promised gift received, and a purposeful experience.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit may be properly defined as that activity of God whereby through his Spirit he brings the believer – at salvation – into a relationship with Christ and simultaneously into a relationship with the Body of Christ, the Church. So I want to raise a question today: Does the baptism in the Holy Spirit occur simultaneous with salvation or subsequent to salvation?
Don’t go to sleep on me now.
In the book of Acts we find four occasions for sure, and possibly five, where the baptism of the Holy Spirit occurred. No one occasion is identical to the other although there were some commonalities. In Acts 2:1-4, the 120 believers experienced the baptism and the filling of the Holy Spirit simultaneously accompanied with tongues at Pentecost. Also at Pentecost there were 3000 who received the gift of the Holy Spirit and salvation under the preaching of Peter, but no mention is made of them speaking in tongues.
The 120 were saved and received the baptism and filling of the Holy Spirit subsequent to salvation. The fact that the experience of the 120 was in two distinct stages was simply due to historical circumstances. They could not have receive the Pentecostal gift before Pentecost.
In Acts 8:12-17, we see where the Holy Spirit was received by the converts in Samaria after their water baptism. Philip preached the good news of the Kingdom of God and in the name of Jesus Christ they were baptized, both men and women. When Philip preached to Samaria, it was the first time that the gospel had been proclaimed outside Jerusalem. Evidently, because Samaritans and Jews had always been bitter enemies.
In Acts 8:16, it explains that although they were believers and had been baptized, the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon them. I believe that in this incidence and Samaria, God sovereignly withheld the Holy Spirit from them until Peter and John arrived so that they might see for themselves that God received even despised Samaritans who believed in Christ. There could be no question about it.
Also in Acts 8:26-40, we see the Holy Spirit directing Philip to go to Gaza to witness to an Ethiopian man. Thank God that the Ethiopians were included. The Ethiopian man, like the 3000 on the day of Pentecost, received the Word of God and was baptized. But there is no mention of tongues, a second baptism, or the laying on of hands. In verse 39 of Acts 8 it says he rejoiced in the Spirit as he got up out of the water when Philip baptized him.
Now Acts 2 is often referred to as the Jewish Pentecost, and Acts 8 is referred to as the Ethiopian Pentecost and the Samaritan Pentecost.
In Acts 10, verses 44-48, while Peter was preaching to Cornelius – the Italian, a Gentile – and his family and friends, the baptism and the gift of the Holy Spirit fell on this Gentile. Unlike at Samaria when the Holy Spirit was given after water baptism, these Gentiles were baptized with the Holy Spirit while Peter was yet preaching.
In other words, you can’t put God in a box. He does things like he wants to when he wants to. He’s the sovereign God. There is no formula.
In Acts 19:1-7, we find an encounter of Paul with the disciples of John the Baptist in Ephesus. Paul asked them, in verse 3, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” Behind the question is the assumption that this was usually when it happened – when you believe, when we believe, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, according to Ephesians 1. They pled ignorant of the Holy Spirit, stating that they had been baptized into John’s baptism.
Paul related John’s baptism to the ministry of Jesus, and they were baptized in water a second time and received the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Now to summarize this point: It is my belief that you cannot look to Acts for a fixed formula or a definite pattern as to how one receives the gift of the Holy Spirit. No one has the Spirit of God in a box. It is my belief that Pentecost instituted the Church, then all that remained was for Samaritans, Gentiles, Ethiopians, and Jews who were unaware of the gospel to be brought into the church representatively. This occurred in Acts 8 for Samaritans and Ethiopians; Acts 10 for Gentiles; and Acts 19 for the belated believers from John’s baptism. Once this representative baptism with the Holy Spirit had occurred the normal pattern applied. Baptism with the Spirit at the time that each person, of whatever background, believed on Jesus Christ. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is the initial experience of every believer at conversion.
Eph 1:3 says that “we have been blessed with spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” And one of those spiritual blessings, whether we realize it or not, that we received when we were saved is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Now the question that many of you will have to deal with when you pastor and people join your church from various backgrounds, influenced by television ministries and what have you, is the question, “Is speaking in tongues the evidence of being baptized with the Holy Spirit?”
That’s the question that every future pastor here will have to deal with. It’s something you will have to work out in your own theological pilgrimage. And the answer to that question, based on biblical authority, as far as I’m concerned, is “no.” Speaking in tongues is not the evidence of being baptized with the Holy Spirit.
However, I believe it is not the gift of the Holy Spirit, but the Bible makes it clear that for some it is a gift that God chooses to give to believers.
Now it was in 1981, on this campus, when I took a class from Dr. Jack Gray, a missions professor, that he was teaching on spiritual formations in the spiritual foundations class at the time. And I probably bought almost 1500 books, Dr. Patterson, just trying to figure out the Holy Spirit. Well over a $1000.00, and every book I would read would influence me and I would change my mind with every book.
I was a young preacher, a young pastor, called to a church at 21 years of age, and I was having to work through this issue. And Dr. Gray had a 50cent booklet in class that, had I purchased that book first, it would have answered all my questions for me.
[Laughter]
He spent a whole week speaking on the Holy Spirit, and he made this statement in class one day, and it changed my life. He said, “Up until 11 years ago I knew the Holy Spirit as a doctrine, then I met him as a person.”
[That’s right, Amen!]
He said, “I knew him as a doctrine, but then I met him as a person.” That statement riveted me that day. We also had a week of study and prayer in that class, and we would use Peter Lord’s 21/59 prayer guide, and I grew up in a traditional Baptist church that was very anti-tongues.
I remember when the tongues movement broke out in our church, my pastor preached a sermon against tongues. He said that Jesus never spoke in tongues, and he never commanded anybody to speak in tongues. He took a hard stand, and so I adopted the position of my pastor until I got to Southwestern Seminary and Dr. Gray passed out this booklet on the gifts of the Holy Spirit that validated the gifts. And I studied Jack MacGorman’s book on the Holy Spirit, and Billy Graham’s book on the Holy Spirit. I’ve even looked at Dr. Patterson’s First Corinthians commentary where not all Baptists believe that the gift of tongues went out with the completion of the New Testament.
Some of the foremost leaders and thinkers and theologians among Baptist life believe tongues is a valid gift for today. And at 12noon, Dr. Gray challenged us to establish a daily time of praying through Peter Lord’s prayer plan, and I was at Ft. Worth dormitory here. Twelve noon was my 29/59 prayer time, and every day I let nothing interfere with that.
I wasn’t seeking the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. I didn’t even believe in speaking in tongues. I was just going through my regular prayer time.
But I literally, on this campus, in the dormitory for the first time in my life, as I was praying, some strange words began to come out of my mouth. And I began to pinch myself and say, “what is this,” and the more I prayed I didn’t understand what I was saying. I said, “this must be what people call speaking in tongues.”
Now, I don’t believe that tongue-speaking is the evidence of the filling of the Spirit. Most of the religious scandals of our time have been led by men who practiced speaking in tongues. They certainly were not living a life that showed the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit.
But I think it’s tragic in Baptist life when we take a valid, vital gift that the Bible talks about and come up with a policy that says people who pray in tongues in their private prayer lives cannot work in certain positions. That to me is contrary to what many of our foremost Baptist thinkers and leaders think.
[Amens heard]
[Applause]
Well you can understand I’m not the most popular man in the world, but at my age I don’t preach for popularity or applause, I preach what I believe is the truth of the Word of God.
[Applause. Laughter]
So, I don’t believe it’s the evidence, but I’m here to say that as the Spirit gives me utterance I pray in tongues in my private prayer life, and I’m not ashamed of that. I’m thankful for that. I don’t believe it makes me spiritual or superior or inferior to anybody. I have no prejudice or bias against tongues; however, I must stand on biblical truth and not popular opinion.
I do believe that all spiritual gifts listed in Scripture are operable today, and by the grace of God some Christians will experience the gift of tongues when filled with the Holy Spirit, although the teaching that all Christians should experience speaking in tongues as evidence of being baptized in the Holy Ghost is unscriptural. The Scripture does not preclude speaking in tongues for some when they are filled with the Holy Spirit.
As the Spirit rushes into the corners of their lives, awakening new desires for prayer and praise, speaking in tongues will naturally flow forward in some. Whatever your spiritual gift is, if you are filled with the Holy Spirit, that gift will be used to the maximum.
Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 12:13 that all believers are baptized by the Holy Spirit, but he also makes it clear 1 Corinthians 12:30 that all do not speak with tongues. Now since all Christians do not speak in tongues, it cannot be the proof of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
There is only one baptism in the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:5). “One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” And I believer that’s referring to Holy Spirit that occurs at salvation. Being baptized is equated with being a child of God. Believers are never commanded in Scripture to be baptized, but to be filled with the Holy Spirit. As Dr. W.A. Criswell used to say, “one baptism, but many fillings.”
There is the ongoing filling ministry of the Spirit for power. There is only one baptism but many fillings. But all born-again believers are baptized in the Holy Ghost. All born again believers, who have experienced Jesus Christ as Lord, whether you’ve ever had a tongues speaking experience or not – you may never have one; that may not be God’s will for your life – but you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. And the purpose of this baptism is to place believers in the Body of Christ.
Even carnal Christians are seen in 1 Corinthians 12 as having been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
The filling of the Spirit means the whole control of the Spirit, then enthronement of Jesus as Lord. When a person receives salvation, baptism with the Spirit, or the gift of the Spirit, I believe the Holy Spirit is resident. But when you’re filled with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is then president.
The filling with the Holy Spirit makes one experience Jesus as complete Lord. It is God-intoxication. Not drunk with wine, but be filled with the Spirit. Paul wrote of bringing every thought captive to Jesus Christ, to acknowledge his authority in 2 Corinthians 10:5. The fullness of the Spirit is for that specific purpose and service to bring every thought captive.
The promise in Acts 1:8 was power. And the service was witnessing. The report in Acts 2:4-11 was that they were “all filled” and unbelievers heard them telling in their own tongues of the mighty works of God. In Acts 4:31, believers were filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the Word of God boldly. In Ephesians 5:18-21, the result of being filled with the Holy Spirit was that they would give thanks to God, that they would have submission in their lives, and they would acknowledge one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.
The fruit of the Holy Spirit is the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit, not one of his gifts. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit himself.
In conclusion, where does the Bible teach that all Christians are to speak in tongues as the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Nowhere.
I also believe that non-Pentecostal evangelicals must recognize that the gift of tongues is a legitimate spiritual gift – that it always has been and will be a part of the church until Jesus returns. Some believers will experience the gift of tongues, and some will not. Pentecostals need to recognize that tongues is not a sign of spiritual power, although it does edify the one who is speaking (1 Cor 14:4). Baptists and other evangelicals need to recognize the Spirit-filled life and the fact that the Holy Spirit desires to have intimate fellowship with us daily for empowerment, fellowship, service, comfort, and guidance.
Now for what most Pentecostals refer to as a baptism of the Holy Ghost, I refer to as the filling of the Holy Spirit. However, regardless of what terminology we use, we both agree we need the fullness of the Holy Spirit to render effective service for Christ for our families, and even on our jobs.
Now as I hurry to my seat, how to be filled with the Holy Spirit?
Dr. Gray, in his booklet has several suggestions.
You need to remember that the Holy Spirit lives in you now. Thank God for his presence. We refer to the Holy Spirit as an it but he’s a person. He shouldn’t be referred to as “it” but rather “he.”
Know that he will never leave you, according to Hebrews 13:5. We’ve been sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13-14). We need to get on our knees before God and thank him that he lives in our hearts now. We need to rejoice in him that he lives in us and he will never leave us. There is no complex formula given in the Bible or a certain order as to what do you do first, second, and third in order to be filled with the Holy Spirit. The Bible says ask and you shall receive. It’s God simple word to his children. There is nothing to fear in being filled with the Spirit. God blesses, Dr. Gray says, not blasts. He helps, not hurts.
To be filled with the Spirit is good, and will result in your good and God’s glory. It is as simple as this, and I’m not just preaching this for an academic purpose. I’m not just preaching this so that we’ll know more about the doctrine of the Holy Spirit. I agree with Dr. Gray. What I need, what you need, is to know him as a person.
When Paul said, “that I may know him and the power of his resurrection.” That same power that raised Christ Jesus from the dead, that was the Holy Spirit. I need to know him intimately. I need to know him experientially. I need to know him deeply. So to be filled we need to request him to fill us.
We need to repent of our sins as he directs. When I asked him recently to fill me afresh and anew with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit reminded me of a thank you letter I refused to send to my uncle because I was upset about something that had happened in my family, and the Lord made it clear to me that until I repented of that sin and sent him that thank you letter I would never enjoy his fullness.
And enjoying his fullness meant more to me than holding onto a grudge.
There may be some sin. There may be some insensitivity. There may be some issue in your life and in my life that keeps us from being filled. Ask the Lord to point that out to you. Ask him to search your heart, to try you, and if there be any wicked way in you, to lead you into a way everlasting. Believe him to fill you. Receive his filling. And we should do this daily.
Here’s what Jesus said if we want to be filled with the Holy Spirit. If you’re hungry, eat.
I love reading through a book of the Bible in chapel every day. That’s eating the Word of God. Blessed are they that hunger and thirst. If you’re thirsty, drink! Jesus said you’ll be satisfied, that you’ll never thirst again.
He says come unto me all you that labor and are heavy-laden, and I will do what? Give you rest!
I believe I was filled with the Holy Spirit the day I was saved. I believe I was filled with the Holy Spirit when I was 17 years of age, and I never spoke in tongues that time. I didn’t believe in speaking in tongues. But God got ahold of my life when I was planning on going to the University of Arkansas at Fayetteville to study political science. I wanted to join my brother’s law practice and become a lawyer. But I fasted for three days seeking God’s will for my life, and he called me into the ministry and led me to Ouachita Baptist University. It totally changed my life and my outlook on life and gave me new direction in life.
I believe I was filled with God’s precious Holy Spirit when I preached my first sermon at St. Paul Baptist Church in March of 1974. I believe that at different times in my life, God has filled me and anointed me for a specific purpose and a specific task. But I believe God also filled me with the Holy Spirit even in a dormitory room on this campus just crying out to God to be in the center of his perfect will. As the song-writer said:
Like the woman at the well, I was seeking.
Sometimes for things that could not satisfy.
But then I heard my Savior speaking,
Draw from the well that never shall run dry.
If you want to be filled today, all you have to is cry out:
Fill my cup, Lord.
I lift it up, Lord.
Come and quench this thirsting of my soul.
Bread of Heaven, feed me till I want to more.
Fill my, cup.
Fill it up, and make me whole.
One baptism…but many fillings.
Jesus said, “If you being evil will give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him.”
posted by Wade Burleson | Wednesday, August 30, 2006
127 Comments:
Wade -
The campus was hopping today with talk of this message. The hallways were buzzing with mixed emotions to the sermon yesterday and the reaction by the seminary.
God may have allowed this situation to occur in order that we all look deeper into this subject. Dr. Patterson graciously offered materials on this subject at a discounted price after chapel today.
Wade,
Thanks for getting this. I can't say I agree with his theology, but I wouldn't have censored him. Is he my brother in Christ? YES! Do we need men like him? YES! Can I work and worship with him? YES!!
Thanks to Benjamin S. Cole for providing the transcript.
I remind everyone the issue is NOT whether or not you agree with Dr. McKissic.
The issue is should Dr. McKissic be given the grace and respect due him as a trustee of the SWBTS and Pastor of a large, evangelistic SBC church, even if WE DISAGREE WITH HIM.
Further, should an institution supported by CP funds censure someone by saying what he teaches is "harmful" to churches, when what is being taught is based upon the pastor's interpretation of Scripture, falls within the BFM, and is not considered an "essential" of the faith.
Are we really desiring the SBC to be a narrow sect where everyone must conform to a specific ideology? What happened to critical, Biblical dialogue, discussion and even dissent?
Those are the issues.
Unfortunately, critical, Biblical dialogue does not exist on this topic, but Rev. McKissick’s just may have been the catalyst that SWBTS needed to get the ball rolling on this issue.
And as you have mentioned, I fear that the BF&M has become the constitution for denominational crucifixion. I am grateful for the BF&M, but not when we use it sensor someone’s Biblical interpretation of the scriptures.
Does anyone know how many students and professors received a "private prayer language" this week?
Thanks for posting this! Dr. McKissic has said that he wants SWBTS students to think critically about this topic and the IMB policy.
Now that this transcript is available, perhaps more people will also think critically about the IMB policy, and evaluate it biblically, regardless of whether one agrees with Dr. McKissic or not.
For this reason, I'm grateful that Dr. McKissic had the courage to say what he said.
In the same way that the printing press broke the stranglehold of the Catholic Church on the words of scripture, so too the internet will break the stranglehold of denominational executives who don't want laity to know certain things.
Praise God for this.
I had a watershed moment a few months ago at a Worship Conference with various denominations as we ascribed honor and glory to the Lord: On the day we stand before the throne of glory there will be no difference betwen those who were immersed and those who were (gasp)sprinkled. Nor will there be a special section for those who spoke in tongues and for those who do not.
As a Navy Chaplain (In OKC), I find it refreshing to work with those of differing faiths. When a sailor comes to my office for counseling, he or she is not looking for a Baptist Chaplain--they see the cross on my collar and are in need of love and care.
Blessings,
Steve
I know I'm saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit. I know the Holy Spirit on a first name basis. I have asked Him if tongues is for me; give it to me. He has not, maybe because He knows how much trouble I have with my mother tongue English.
I know many Godly people who do have tongues, and I know when we get to Heaven we will all speak the same. I wonder if there will be a papal edict there against it.
We had better serve Jesus and quit fighting or Acts 5 might happen again with those playing at religion, rather than serving God and winning folks to Jesus.
Dear Jesus use us or get us out of the way is my prayer.
WOW!!! What a message. Rev Mckissic is right on. Thanks for publishing his talk. He so clearly stated his views. I believe he is scriptual. For the post that asked and didn't recieve tongues. It is simple. Do like Peter "get out of the boat". If one wants to see GOD at work in the bile, ask and recieve the baptism, and see GOD put new words and meaning in the bible without changing the print. GOD's word came alive when I recieved the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT. He always was with and in me. I just kept HIM bottled up.
What a GOD we serve!!!!
Charlie
Wade,
Thanks for posting this. Agree or disagree with Dr. McKissic's theology, this message needed to be accessed by a wider audience.
In a manner which has become all too typical of some, the leadership at SWBTS chose to limit access in an effort to expand control.
And as many of your readers have stated in one way or another, in this information age, those who control access to information control literally everything.
Thanks for the "expose," if you will!
Interesting that this respected Texas pastor...and seminary trustee...could not be an IMB missionary due to the new guideline.
Of course, Dr. Rankin couldn't either.
There should be room in the SBC for different views on the subject without a cessationist position being taken. Some say that IMB trustees did not take a cessationist position. Sure they did. Either what this Arlington brother pastor described in chapel yesterday is of God, or it's not of God... What if, what if it is of God. I think Southern Baptists should be very careful in saying that folks like this are not welcome in our mission service.
That policy needs to be changed
Wade and Ben,
Thanks for the transcript. Like I mentioned in the previous post. Diverse and divergent interpretatons of scripture are good. They force us to know why and what we believe. They encourage our own study of the Word
Troy
There was an excellent series of posts on private prayer language and tounges in general on Jerry Corbaly's blog. I would refer you to it, but he has removed the archives and ended his blog. Maybe I am not entirely objective, but my impression was that the non-cessasionists, ecstatic utterance believers, and supporters of private prayer language more than held their own in straight up arguments about the appropriate interpretation of the relevant passages. It seems to me that the only people who oppose an open discussion on this are those who are on one side of the issue (like Dr. Patterson and Dr. Corbaly) and seem to want to convince everyone that their view is mainstream and others are not. If they are really sure that their arguments and interpretations are unassailable, why do they not want an open discussion? Dr. McKissick is an eloquent and gracious man. Why in heaven's name would we want to prevent him and others who believe like him on this issue from working for our SBC agencies or boards? I know, we haven't done that yet, only IMB missionaries have this restriction. Realistically, though does it make sense to have different rules on this issue for different agencies or employees? I would be surprised if this is not applied in the future across the board, which would preclude Dr. McKissick's further service as a Trustee. I just don't get it. Policies were already in place to prevent teaching that tongues are normative or practicing them publicly. Why wasn't that enough? Why wouldn't it be enough now? None of this makes even a little sense. I feel like have awakened into an Orwell novel. Maybe it's just a dream?!
We would have liked to have been there.
JRob, perhaps you can us your tight connections with Paige and the Hat Lady to get them to open the electronic vaults so that we may listen to the sermon.
Wade and Rt. Rev. Cole, we appreciate you two getting this out.
Wade,
Good job keep the focus on the issues.
ARB
I e-mailed back and forth with Dr. Patterson this evening over the issue and think that the seminary's argument is not whether or not they should allow or endorse this message and teaching, but whether or not they should "advertise" it.
In our conversation, Dr. Patterson clearly argued that this was not censorship as Dr. McKissic was allowed to teach as he pleased and finish his message, that the message is in the archives and that CDs, videos and transcripts are readily available.
The argument is that by placing the message (audio / video) on the web that it "advertises" the message and implies that it is the concensus view of the seminary.
Why should he be given grace just because he is the pastor of a large church? It was shameful of him to speak on a subject that has been so controversal. I wish he had used better judgment, chapel services should not be used to promote an agenda. I applaud Dr. Patterson's decision to withold. I will email him tomorrow and let him know how much I appreciate his decision.
Jeff
Wade...
Thanks for posting this... this message was a blessing!
Ben...
Thanks for obtaining this and seeing that it was shared!
Stephen...
Jerry has not yet deleted his posts and comments. I'm VERY thankful for that... as we're all learning from this issue, inhibiting access to information causes turmoil!
Brothers and Sisters I just read the Transcript Post and not any comments yet. The Holy Spirit lifted me up, like it did when I was 40 yrs old. What a testimony from Dr. McKissic. It just doesn't get any better and no greater High. Thank You Lord.
Thank you Wade for sharing this Love for the Lord.
A Brother in Christ without the Gift of Tongues.
I am saddend. National Conventions, State Conventions, Local Associations...all seem to be having trouble. God's Kingdom is under so much attack. And I'm sure the devil is having a hay-day while we fight amongst ourselves. He's been winning for too long. From the beginning of the takeover until now. When will we ever wake up, O' God.
Tim
I'm in full agreement with Dr. McKissic's right to speak his view as well as his theology. His perspective IS the mainline evangelical perspective. John Piper and Wayne Grudem would agree. It is the continualist position and it has a great deal of Biblical support and validity. Great evangelical scholars support this position. It is neither dangerous nor fringe.
An SBC where this position is not allowed or advertised as being a valid position to hold will be an SBC without my presence. I can work with people who disagree with this position. They have that right. But, if they say that I can't believe what Dr. McKissic so effectively stated yesterday and be a good Southern Baptist, then I will leave it to them. I'd rather be a good follower of Jesus Christ and His Word than a good Southern Baptist under that type of unbiblical authoritarianism, because the two positions would no longer be synonymous, in my opinion.
Folks, this is not the time to argue whether a cessationist or continualist position is right. I'm a continualist and I would fight just as hard if all the cessationists were being marginalized. It just isn't right. You can believe either position and be a brother or sister in Christ that I can work or fellowship with. But, if you tell me that my position is not valid and is unwanted, then YOU have broken fellowship.
This is crazy. This is no little thing. This will either pull us together because we will work through it, or the SBC will split in a way that made the prior divisions look insignificant. I am very concerned for our future.
Correction: I should have said that Dr. McKissic's position is A mainline evangelical perspective. Upon further reflection, I realized that there are competing views that carry a great deal of weight and I engaged in a subjective argument without documentation. That is not profitable to the discussion and only serves to alienate others who hold a different view.
By the way, can anyone see after reading that, how the reason for limiting access could have been one paragraph that contained a vague reference to the IMB's BOT decision. That seems ludicrous to me.
I am in total agreement with Rev. McKissic's message. The only difference is that (according to my understanding, at least) God, who in his sovereignty gives the manifestation of the Spirit "to each one, just as he determines" (1 Cor. 12.11) has not yet decided to give me the same experience he gave Rev. McKissic.
May we all heed Rev. McKissic's plea to seek the filling of the Holy Spirit in our daily lives, and leave whatever manifestations He chooses to give us in His hands.
Wade,
if I was sitting in Paiges lavish office (it is, I've been in there about a year ago, and met with Paige... that's what he told me to call him...with about 5 other pastors for two hours...he's quite a charismatic character...er, no pun intended) I would CERTAINLY put some sort of disclaimer on the audio/video. Something like, "some of the views expressed here are not nes. that of SWBTS, our staff...blah blah blah". This guy gave a one sided sermon, which is fine, but I think that swbts ought to feel free to make a disclaimer of some sort. BUT, not archiving this is simply INFLAMATORY and ridiculous. Period.
I guess I meant what David Rogers said. I guess I didn't mean Theology, it was more interpretation!
I appreciated Dr. McKissic's gracious words and reference to Dr. Jack Gray. Dr. Gray was a great mentor to me and many others who studied at SWBTS and went on to missions careers. I always remember him telling me in the early 80s how hurtful it was to him when people who did not even know him referred to him as a liberal simply because he was teaching at Southwestern and there were those in the Conservative Resurgence who claimed all teachers at Southwestern were liberals. Even though he was one of the most spiritually sensitive men I have known he would probably not be allowed to teach at SWBTS today under the current administration.
By the way, Ben or whoever transcribed this, it is Ouachita not Oachita. I don't know Dr. McKissic but as a Ouachita alumnus I am proud to see he also attended Ouachita.
Ron West
I might point out that there are more than two positions on this. Most commenters have mentioned cessationists and continualists. There is also a popular semi-cessationist position. Here's a brief description of each:
1. Continualist: The gift of tongues continues now and is normative, just like it was in the time of Paul.
2. Cessationist: The gift of tongues has ceased.
3. Semi-cessationist: The gift of tongues is no longer a normative gift. It rarely occurs so that a person can understand the word of God in his or her own language.
I don't want to make this comment too long, but a key issue is the use of the middle voice in 1 Corinthians 13:8. Notice that the three verbs describing what will happen to “gifts of prophecy,” “tongues,” and “knowledge” are all translated as future tense in English, but in Greek, two verbs are future passive and one verb (connected to “tongues”) is future middle:
“Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.” (NASB)
A pretty fair Greek scholar, our own A. T. Robertson, commented on the middle voice used in 13:8:
“They shall cease (pausontai). Future middle indicative of pauw, to make cease. They shall make themselves cease or automatically cease of themselves.”
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/Robertsons
WordPictures/rwp.cgi?book=1co&chapter=13&verse=8
See John MacArthur's comments:
http://www.biblebb.com/files
/MAC/sg1868.htm
Best wishes,
Mike Morris
(aka "Baptist Theologue")
Dr. McKissic preached a message that he felt the Lord had laid on his heart, the entire message was supported by scripture, and the conclusions he drew were consistent with the scripture that supported it. If there is disagreement with his conclusions, a seminary seems to me to be the ideal place for a discussion.
I feel very blessed to be serving on the staff of a church where stating my agreement with Dr. McKissic's position will not cost me my job. It is sad to think that there are many Baptists in places of service who would have to worry about that.
If I had the power over someone's livlihood, and I used that power to get him to agree with me on an issue of relatively low importance, what have I accomplished?
We'll offer it for sale; you can order it. You just can't get it as freely as other messages from the Website (as had been promised).
So, just a day or two into the new program, the Seminary flunks it's own exam.
"Restricted Access." Dissertations behind lock and key.
You can get it, you just have to work a little harder.
This, in the Age of Google.
No, we can't depend on the Spirit to guide us into truth. We need a Guide to limit access to potentially subversive ideas about the Spirit.
We need to restrict Chapel speakers to a smaller, tighter group of trusted voices. Even if we recycle the same speakers over and over. How did that guy get on the trustee board in the first place?
The tent is too large. That Spirit stuff is dangerous. The public doesn't have a right to know. They can't be trusted.
We know better.
I'm your father; you all are my children (spoken to adults).
This hurts me more than it does you.
Why offer the CD's for sale? The Nazi's burned unapproved books.
If it is of God, you can't stop it. If not, it will die out of it's own accord....
Thank you, Wade, for sharing this message. I very much worshipped as I read this message and LOVE reading the comments - the fellowship - of brothers and sisters across the nation through this bog. Sure appreciate ya & love ya - your sis, Cherri
I commented on this in someone else's blog, but I am going to comment on it here as well.
In some African-American Baptist churches (be theirs NAB, or Full Gospel Baptist, etc.), speaking in tongues (sp?) is a cultural practice and part of their faith tradition. The same is true in some AME churches as well.
I have a friend who is becoming a youth pastor at one of these churches (its Full Gospel Baptist, but it is also black Baptist, etc.) He wants to be a FT senior pastor, eventually, and I share Dr. McKissic's concern that he would be alienated if the Lord was leading him to attend SWBTS for seminary.
While my friend in ministry and I probably do not agree fully with Dr. McKissic with view, because we are both of the charismatic-Pentecostal persuasion, his view IS closer than the view of others who are cessationist, a view that is quite frankly waning in the Church.
I think it is good that Dr. McKissic is exhorting the students at SWBTS to think critically about the IMB policy concerning tounges. One thing I would like to insert in the discussion is a frequently overlooked Scripture, which Jesus said Himself in Mark 16, that those who believe would "speak in new tongues." I know we do not see this very much in the Church today (unless you go to a charismatic or Pentecostal church), but that's a promise for EVERY Christian, not just those with a gift that has the purpose of edifying a body of believers.
Those are my thoughts for now.
Word is spreading like Wildfire. All yall find go to this site immediately for a synopsis from the mostly young so called reform conservative bloggers on this latest. What is Frank Page saying. I sent him an email this morning I sent to the staff of FBC Ft. Payne Alabama, where Bobby Welch was baptized. It was about another matter.
But here is the roundup link
www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=7828
And read 7829 as well about Jim Henry's daughter Kate Campbell's latest that sings like an OT prophet.
Wade, my Brother, you and Flick and my Friend Webb bring Kate for a concert to your church there in Enid, and let Bruce Prescott have the opening prayer, and then friend we are getting somewhere.
Maybe later today I will cut and paste my latest enthusiasms about kate.
Traveling Home
foxofbama
Why do some Baptists believe we must always agree with every thing the preacher or professor or seminary prasident says? I personally do not believe in "unknown tongues" even as "private prayer" language. But why not open the minds of seminary students to both sides of the issues? If all we want from the seminaries is cookie cutter preachers, why not just give them canned sermons each week and be done with it? I want and need pastors, preachers and staff members who expand my understanding of God's Word by causing me to think and study on my own. I loved the explainations on why the sermon was not immediately put on the Internet. They reminded me of the TV interview where the Texas politician was denying taking money illegally in the Sharpstown Banking scandal. He ended the conversation by saying "Besides, I spent that money to pay outstanding debts." Censorship is censorship regardless of the reasoning behind it. Say What?
Mac
Since when does Dr. P get to run Southwestern as his own domain? That's part of the problem. A president of a seminary is a steward, not a dictator. All power cannot and should not be vested in one person. All of our consciences should be held captive to the Word of God. We should work with the community of the saints. If this argument were true, Dr. Dilday would still be at Southwestern doing what he wanted.
People are actually saying we should butt out of Dr. Patterson's perogative to run Southwestern the way he sees fit! Since when has this approach applied to any other agency or SBC institution. We don't have a bunch of little fiefdoms all over that are beyond the scope of accountability.
Man, why is my church sending in all those cooperative program dollars again? Should we just pay up and shut up? Why even have an Annual Meeting? Why don't we just let the big boys decide and go back to our little churches? This position is not tenable.
This made both the Channel 8 newscast last night(local abc affiliate) and the Dallas Morning News this morning
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/tv/stories/DN-baptists_31met.ART0.North.Edition1.3df8c6f.html
Alan,
Hear! Hear!
As they say in our mother country to the east.
Agreed Alan.
Thanks David, for your always kind and wise words in a time when we need them.
jthomas. Are you in Virginia? First perhaps?
I wish anonomous people would consider NOT being. I submit to you it gives a credence to your post if you will come to the light of day.
Selah
Regarding 1 Corinthians 13:8, the cessationist and semi-cessationist position holds that tongues will cease when perfection comes. You have to look at the context to see that an answer is given as to when these things would cease. Here it is:
9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
They claim that perfection is the completed canon of the Bible. Once we have the Bible, we will no longer need tongues or prophecy. Those gifts were just given to the early church until the Bible was completed. Do we really believe that once we have the Bible we will no longer see through a glass darkly? That we will know just as we are known? Obviously not, especially when you look at NT prophecies concerning false teachers, deception, and people falling away. Clearly, this is talking about when we see the Lord face to face in eternity. There will be no need for these gifts because Jesus will be with us, but faith, hope, and love will always remain.
You have to engage in theological gymnastics and be a Greek scholar with a particular interpretation to come to the cessationist or semi-cessationist positions. The continualist position comes from a straight reading of the text. Using MacArthur's hermenuetic, you can make the Bible say just about anything you want. He is not an authority on this issue to me, because he changes the way he does biblical scholarship at this point and he works form his own biases and presuppositions. It is always suprising to me that Biblical conservatives who believe in inerrancy would be cessationists.
McKissic responds to Patterson's criticism of statement on tongues in chapel sermon
http://www.abpnews.com/1335.article
Pastor Wade, Its obvious that, according to Craig from Georgia ,that Pastor McKissic does not know how to read the Bible correctly.... Is there any way that we can get Pastor McKissic and Craig from Georgia together so that Pastor McKissic can be enlightened.....
Alan, you said,
"Regarding 1 Corinthians 13:8, the cessationist and semi-cessationist position holds that tongues will cease when perfection comes. . . . They claim that perfection is the completed canon of the Bible."
Not all of us who are cessationists and semi-cessationists believe that "perfection" in the passage refers to the completed canon. Some of us believe it refers to the second coming of Christ. Verse 8 distinguishes tongues from prophecy and knowledge by use of the middle voice. Verse 9 only mentions prophecy and knowledge; it says they are in part. Verse 10 says when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. The gift of tongues is clearly in a separate category. Thus, the semi-cessationist believes the gift of tongues has gradually been ceasing of itself, and the cessationist believes the gift of tongues totally ceased much earlier.
If tongues or a part thereof were given to Jews for a sign, then why are some folks, especially non-Jews still seeking that sign when we have a completed text. Maybe one reason we see a decrease in areas of our SBC is because we are not committed to that text in total, and therefore cannot lead our congregations in the security of "Thus said the Lord". If our Pastors are weak on convictions of Bible doctrine, then what can we expect from their congregations? If in private prayer in some sort of communication a Pastor gets the message from the Holy Spirit that his salary should be doubled, what happens? Is there a business meeting called for that purpose or is he told to update his resume?
I should have identified the previous David as DavidinFlorida, and not David Mills above.
Wade,
First time to comment on your blog. It seems to me that the word of God can stand on its own. Dr. McKissic's message was not new to the SWBTS campus. He mentioned a great book by one of the best and most godly men I was ever blessed to sit under when I attended SWBTS. Everyone should get a copy of The Gifts of the Spirit by Dr. J. W. MacGorman. This man of God taught what the bible said consistently at Southwestern for over 50 years. He not only led the classes I attended opening the scriptures with such magnificent skill, but often would be moved to tears as he discussed the glorious truth revealed in those pages.
Much to my dismay many like him were forced to leave in the leadership changes. Most of them left with dignity and grace desiring the best for the seminary and those who made the decisions. Many of these were my mentors who not only challenged me to study and teach the bible for what it says not what I want it to say, but to pursue God with a whole-hearted passion. Many of these Saints of God are responsible for helping me along my path of following God to the ends of the earth and for this I am forever grateful. It is truly a disservice to the following generations of SWBTS students that they were not allowed to hear the voices of many of these conservative men and women and to be incouraged in the vision that burned in their hearts to take the gospel to the ends of the earth. Somewhere along the line the agenda became more important than the kingdom.
It is time that we as Southern Baptists stop fighting each other and actually fight an enemy that we should have been fighting all along. Living in a spiritually dark place leaves little time for fighting with those on your side. But I'm sure the forces of darkness are always pleased when we aren't on our knees burdened for the real priorities - the lost all around the world.
Thank you Baptist Theologue for the clarification. I was working from what I've seen MacArthur write on the subject.
Even if that's the case, that still doesn't seem to be a very strong position for the ceasing of tongues when Paul spends almost all of chapter 14 talking about the practice very clearly with statements affirming that he spoke in tongues, he wished they would all speak in tongues, and that we are to not forbid speaking in tongues. It seems that if they were going to pass away that he could have clearly said that and we would not be basing our whole perspective on this topic on the middle voice of a Greek verb.
When I was in seminary, I asked my two of my Greek professors independently about the differences between dechomai and lambano in the Greek. They both mean "to receive." Dechomai is a more passive reception while lambano implies a more active reception. Anyway, they both gave the same answer until I mentioned how those verbs are used intechangably in Acts 8 and they seemed to point to a different type of reception taking place when the Holy Spirit came to the Samaritans. I really wanted to know what they thought because it was confusing to me. As soon as I mentioned Acts 8, they changed their answer and ended up contradicting each other. It went from clarity to confusion as soon as the context and the implication of their answer was mentioned.
My point is that the Greek is helpful, but we all take our presuppositions, even to the Greek text. This is why Greek scholars disagree with each other. I feel that we are much safer letting Scripture interpret Scripture and looking at the context. Not that the Greek is not helpful - we obviously need it and I use it often. I just caution hanging your theology on the middle voice of a Greek verb, when there is a great deal of weight from Scripture that leans the other direction.
And, I obviously defend your right to do just that. I have no problem with working with you, even though I disagree. This is only an issue, because some say that McKissic's interpretation of these passages has no place in Baptist life. The continualist would never say that to the cessationist or the semi-cessationist. That is where the problem lies.
Thanks Baptist Theologue for the information. Even though we disagree, I praise God that we can discuss these things in civil and rational manner as brothers in Christ.
I think we should all just ask what Benedict thinks about this and settle this once and for all.
Seriously, Bob Cleveland makes a very good point elsewhere by asking, if this perspective could bring harm to our churches why make it available at all - even at a cost? Is it actually better to make a profit off of harmful theology? If so I'll sell my Scofield Reference Bible to the highest bidder [snicker, snicker].
Interesting. We will unlock dissertations that were kept out of the public eye for the security of our missionaries but we will not put a sermon on the website because someone disagrees with it. Very interesting. What has happened the the school that I attended?
Just because a sermon is on the website doesn't mean that the seminary endorses it.
To Alan Cross,
Right on! Amen! to everything you said.
Pastor Wade, Yes, my tongue was planted firmly in my cheek..... Just as I said the other day, if one has a prayer language than Praise God that great, if one does not than that is OK also...I dont believe that it should be a WEDGE issue for SBCers to get angry about...But thats just me , as I have been told by a guy in Georgia that I dont know how to read the Bible...
"davidinflorida said...
as I have been told by a guy in Georgia that I dont know how to read the Bible..."
No. You, like Dr.McKissic, just don't believe what you read.
Interesting that much of the sermon was about the filling of the Holy Spirit. As a lay person my teaching and reading of the scripture tracked the position that the Spirit ccomes with conversion baptism, and is an on going "filling".
Most of the responses have addressed the validity of tongues. I don't know the pastor, but if he said he had "tongue like utterences" I believe him! What right do I have to question how God is moving in his life?
At about age 72, I met a man on a bus in China. I identified myself as an American tourist, and a believer. He said "I am a bleiever too". I was amazed at his English. He asked after we arrived in the city where he taught at the university, if he could come to our hotel and visit. For about 3 hours we shared our spiritual journeys. God was present in the conversation and I was amazed that a 40ish man that was saved by a tract given by a tourist would be so grounded in the Word. The conversation moved to "tongues". He said he had spoken in tongues during intense pray times. I asked if the words were Chinese and he said no, more like utterances. I asked how he came to that place in his walk. He said a German man he met had said it was a gift that God gave to some people, and he prayed and it just came! Did I believe this fellow believer? Sure. Why would I doubt his word? He took no pride in the gift, just an open sharing between two lay believers. On a second trip to China, we spent time with this man and his family. We had worship in our hotel room and I witnessed to other family members. Since that time his wife that he had been praying for 20 years has come to faith.
I prayed for the gift of tongues, but don't have it, but it doesn't cloud my belief that others do!
George Klineberg,
A man who thinks like you is dangerous for those in control, but a breath of fresh air to people like me.
Look forward to meeting you some day.
Grace,
Wade
Amen, and Amen! That is good teaching from Dr. McKissic. I should know; I have experienced both the best and worst of fully