Conversion to Christ Over a Glass of a Wine
Some of my blogging friends believe the resolution on alcohol use in America, as amended by the Executive Director of the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Texas, is an attempt to embarrass me, or possibly remove me from the International Mission Board of Trustees.
I would caution anyone about assigning motives to certain members of the Resolutions Committee or the leadership of the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Texas regarding me. In addition, I am never embarrassed about my interpretations of the Word of God, because I have such a high view of the inerrant, sacred text. If anything, I sometimes get embarrassed by the actions of my fellow Southern Baptists, but never what the Bible says.
I teach my children and my church that abstinence is a wise choice for every Christian, and the best way to avoid drunkenness. I wholeheartedly support all believers who have an abstinence conviction. However, I believe the authoritative, inspired Word of God forbids drunkenness, not necessarily the drinking of an alcoholic beverage.
One person called me today and said this resolution is an attempt to "get me" off the IMB. I laughed. That won't work. If the trustees were to approve a policy of total abstinence for sitting trustees, I would, of course abide by it. As I have said, I am policy driven. I would, however, without hesitation, argue against such a trustee policy prior to adoption because of my belief in the inerrant Word of God. The trustees of any agency have the right to set any policy they desire, even extra-Biblical requirements for trustees, and though I will seek to prevent the adoption of any extra-Biblical policy during my tenure on the IMB, were the abstinence policy to be adopted, I would abide by it.
My Pledge
In fact, I will go even further. Resolutions are not binding, but since I am elected by and represent the Southern Baptist Convention, and since the convention adopted a resolution urging abstinence by trustees, I will abstain from drinking an alcoholic beverage during my entire tenure as an IMB Board member.
However, let me use this "alcohol" issue as discussed by Southern Baptists at our Convention as an example of the overall lack in our convention of sound, Biblical exegesis. The idea that to drink a glass of wine, or any other alcoholic beverage, is a sin against God is so foreign to the teaching of the inspired, inerrant Word of God that for anyone to say to a Christian who has no abstinence conviction, "You are sinning against God when you drink a glass of wine" is a sin in itself. To do so would be to accuse Jesus of possessing personal sin, the epitome of liberalism.
Jesus drank wine. The disciples drank wine. Jesus turned the water into wine. Paul commanded Timothy "Drink a little wine for your stomach." The Biblical prohibition is "drunkenness." The inerrant Bible says "Be not drunk with wine."
And make no mistake: Drunkenness is a sin. It is a scourge on our society. We must sharply rebuke anyone, including the alcohol industry, who minimizes or encourages drunkenness. Our church disciplines people for the sin of drunkenness, and we treat the sin very, very seriously.
However, the sin of drunkenness is similar to the sin of promiscious sex. We don't teach that a man should abstain from sex with his wife because other people are sex addicts. Similarly, we don't teach that individuals MUST abstain from alcohol because some commit the sin of drunkennes.
Likewise we don't DEMAND that those who are single get married, or those who choose to abstain from alcohol drink. Some things are matters of personal conviction and conscience. The pastor's job is not to force those who use sex properly, or alcohol properly, to abstain from either because some others cannot control the lusts of their wicked hearts, but rather, the pastor's job is to teach the Bible and urge God's people to live by Biblical principles.
I have never tasted beer. But I play golf every Friday with some wonderful men from my church that enjoy a glass of beer after the round. I don't condemn them for drinking beer and they don't condemn me for not drinking beer. And they don't get drunk.
There have been three people in our church in the last fifteen years, only three, who have undergone loving church discipline for the sin of drunkenness. All three people must now be --- by their personal choice and their corresponding accountability to our church --- absolute tea totalers. They have shown their inability to control their appetite for alcohol. Their drunkenness is a dishonor to the Christ who has saved them and a shame to the body of believers with whom they have joined. Their conduct has been a breach of our church covenant which forbids drunkenness.
Fortunately, the grace of God is apparent in all three and they willingly accepted the counsel of their families and pastors and agreed wholeheartedly that abstinence is now a requirement in their lives. If they drink, we all identify it as sin for them and immediately confront them. Yet, they understand abstinence is not demanded from others in the church.
Alcohol and the Bible
I believe one of the reasons Southern Baptists love to point to the act of drinking an alcoholic beverage as a sin in itself is because it is an action they can easily avoid and feel comfortable in their own self-righteousness. In fact, one messenger from Texas stated during the debate on the resolution that every Christian must ABSTAIN in order to be holy. Really?
The Bible teaches that claiming the righteousness of Christ is one's only hope of salvation. He is our holiness. We have His righteousness by faith. Imputed righteousness, of course, is not a license to sin, but the inspired Word of God never equates drinking an alcoholic beverage with sin. Drunkenness is the sin, according to God's word.
In fact, the Bible says wine was given by God for man's enjoyment. The Psalmist says that God gave wine to make men glad (Ps. 104:15). Jesus did not preach against the use of wine; instead he did like most other Jews of his day. He drank wine in moderation. In ancient times it was normally diluted with water for drinking purposes, but it was one of the principal beverages in Palestine at that time—as it is today-and it was, and is, alcoholic.
Jesus’ first miracle was to change water into wine (oinos). On this occasion Christ turned six jars of 20 or 30 gallons each into wine (oinos). This was no small miracle. This wine was of the finest quality— “You have kept the good wine until now” (John 2:10). At such wedding feasts, after people had drunk the better wine, the hosts brought out lesser-quality wines.
Jesus gave a parable involving the fermenting process of oinos in Matt. 9:17. At that time, instead of having metal or glass bottles to enclose wine, the skins of animals were used. The fermentation of the wine would break an old inelastic skin, but it would not break a new stretchable skin.
Another proof that oinos is fermented wine is the fact that the apostle Paul said, “Be not drunk with wine [oinos]” (Eph. 5:18). Paul did not mean to avoid getting drunk on grape juice! Paul instructed Timothy, “Drink no longer water, but use a little wine [oinos] for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities” (1 Tim. 5:23). He said to use only a little wine, not a whole lot. The purpose of this wine was Timothy’s frequent stomach ailments; small amounts of wine can help some stomach problems.
Some of the Corinthian Christians were getting drunk at the Lord's Supper (1 Cor. 11:21). They were using fermented wine, probably following the example that Paul had set for them. Paul did not tell them that they were using the wrong kind of wine. He simply told them to eat and drink at home, and to participate in the Lord's Supper in a respectful way. In Romans 14:21, Paul says that it is good not to drink wine or eat meat if it offends a weak brother. He is referring to fermented wine; grape juice wouldn't offend anyone. The implication is that there's nothing wrong with the wine in itself.
Drunkenness Condemned in Scripture
Both the Old and New Testaments contain many examples and commands against excessive use of alcohol and drunkenness. Drunkenness is listed as one of the works of the flesh (Gal. 5:21). That means it is the result of the undisciplined, indiscriminate use of alcohol. Jesus warned his followers not to be drunk (Luke 21:34).
The apostle Paul told the Corinthian church to “put away from among yourselves”—to have no fellowship—with a person who cannot control his or her drinking (1 Cor. 5:11-13). This refers to people who will not face up to or try to overcome drinking problems, not people who are working on and overcoming their problems. The Bible says that drunkards will not enter the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9-10, Gal. 5:21). No one who abuses alcohol should be ordained an elder in the ministry of Jesus Christ (1 Tim. 3:3, 8, Tit. 1:7). If a minister drinks, it should be in moderation.
Wine Used in the Conversion of a Sinner
The following story is a beautiful narrative of reconciliation, conversion, and ultimate redemption --- all initiated because of a glass of wine.
Years ago a man came into our services and sat through the preaching time weeping. He was a wealthy, high profile business man who had just gone through a heartwrenching divorce because of his own indiscretions.
After the service he introduced himself to me and set up an appointment to see me for some counseling. This began a six month pastoral relationship with this man that eventually led him to an understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the ultimate experience of Divine forgiveness.
All that was now needed was reconciliation with his wife. He asked if I would counsel them. I said I would, but when he requested his wife to come with him to see me, she said, "No. He's a Baptist preacher. All he will do is condemn me."
The businessman was crushed. I asked him why his wife was so hostile about Baptist preachers. He told me she grew up Roman Catholic and the only time she ever attended a Baptist Church the preacher yelled and screamed about the sins of the people in the pews including drinking, going to movies, wearing short skirts and long hair, etc . . . and it turned her off from "the Baptist religion."
I suggested that rather than have her come to my office that the man might want to see if his ex-wife (a divorce had since occurred) would have my wife and I over for dinner, just to get acquainted. To his surprise, she agreed.
To our surprise she was a gourmet chef. We entered the lovely home with the smell of French bread wafting in the air, and sat at the table meticulously crafted for a true dining experience.
Unfortunately, though the introductions were cordial, I could tell the evening might be a long one because of the chill toward this "Baptist preacher."
As we sat down, I noticed the brilliant table settings, the scrumptiously prepared French gourmet meal, and the solemn expression on the woman's face.
I also noticed there was tea and water on the table.
So this Baptist pastor said, "You can't have a meal like this without wine. Where is the wine?"
I wish you could have seen her expression. She smiled and warmly said, "But I thought you were a Baptist preacher."
"I am," was my response, "And this Baptist preacher knows a great chef when he sees one, and no chef worth her salt would prepare a meal like this without wine."
She asked my wife and I to follow her as she took us down to the cellar. She was a wine collector and she proudly showed us her collection, passed down to her by her grandfather. She meticulously chose a bottle of wine for the occasion and we made our way back to the table.
I led us in prayer and we thanked God for the food and the drink and His provision for us. We ate a wonderful meal and I enjoyed a glass of wine. Nobody around the table had more than two glasses.
To make a long story short, the walls that had hindered the relationship came down. We enjoyed the evening with the couple and as a result five things happened:
(1). I was able to lead this woman to faith in Jesus Christ, showing her that Christ alone provided the righteousness she needed, and that she must forsake any trust in her own "self-righteousness." She trusted Him and was baptized shortly thereafter.
(2). It was my privilege to perform the private ceremony where wedding vows were exchanged again and this man and woman were reunited in marriage.
(3). The couple became very active in our church and have led out in our outreach of the lost in our community through Sunday School.
(4). They have personally given tens of thousands of dollars to the Lord's work through our church and Christian school, and have personally been able to lead several of their own family members to faith in Christ.
(5). They still have their wine collection, but have never been drunk since giving their lives to Christ as Lord.
Now, I ask this simple question to my Southern Baptist friends. What, if anything, is wrong with the events just described to you?
I am convinced that we Southern Baptists have for too long avoided teaching our children the principles of God's Word, and instead, substituted a system of religious morality that is often contradictory to the Bible, and therefore, when kids leave Southern Baptists homes they go off the deep end into addictions, rather than live their lives in the enjoyment of the things of God within the parameters established by God.
I have heard the argument before that "Even if one person becomes a drunk then I will abstain from alcohol because of it." The power of the gospel is absolutely lost in that kind of thinking. The drunk is a drunk because of the sin in his soul. His soul is transformed by the gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit, not by observing cultural prohibitions of a Southern Baptist. Christians around the world drink beer and wine without getting drunk. It doesn't hurt their witness. It seems the only weaker brothers I keep running into are Southern Baptist pastors who "stumble" when they see a Christian drinking wine. We Southern Baptist pastors claim to believe the Bible, but I sometimes wonder what Bible it is we are reading.
Let's teach the Bible. Let's proclaim the gospel. Let's focus on the essentials.
There is a lost world out there. It's time Southern Baptists were known for the transforming power of Christ rather than are cultural prohibitions.
In His Grace,
Wade
I would caution anyone about assigning motives to certain members of the Resolutions Committee or the leadership of the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Texas regarding me. In addition, I am never embarrassed about my interpretations of the Word of God, because I have such a high view of the inerrant, sacred text. If anything, I sometimes get embarrassed by the actions of my fellow Southern Baptists, but never what the Bible says.
I teach my children and my church that abstinence is a wise choice for every Christian, and the best way to avoid drunkenness. I wholeheartedly support all believers who have an abstinence conviction. However, I believe the authoritative, inspired Word of God forbids drunkenness, not necessarily the drinking of an alcoholic beverage.
One person called me today and said this resolution is an attempt to "get me" off the IMB. I laughed. That won't work. If the trustees were to approve a policy of total abstinence for sitting trustees, I would, of course abide by it. As I have said, I am policy driven. I would, however, without hesitation, argue against such a trustee policy prior to adoption because of my belief in the inerrant Word of God. The trustees of any agency have the right to set any policy they desire, even extra-Biblical requirements for trustees, and though I will seek to prevent the adoption of any extra-Biblical policy during my tenure on the IMB, were the abstinence policy to be adopted, I would abide by it.
My Pledge
In fact, I will go even further. Resolutions are not binding, but since I am elected by and represent the Southern Baptist Convention, and since the convention adopted a resolution urging abstinence by trustees, I will abstain from drinking an alcoholic beverage during my entire tenure as an IMB Board member.
However, let me use this "alcohol" issue as discussed by Southern Baptists at our Convention as an example of the overall lack in our convention of sound, Biblical exegesis. The idea that to drink a glass of wine, or any other alcoholic beverage, is a sin against God is so foreign to the teaching of the inspired, inerrant Word of God that for anyone to say to a Christian who has no abstinence conviction, "You are sinning against God when you drink a glass of wine" is a sin in itself. To do so would be to accuse Jesus of possessing personal sin, the epitome of liberalism.
Jesus drank wine. The disciples drank wine. Jesus turned the water into wine. Paul commanded Timothy "Drink a little wine for your stomach." The Biblical prohibition is "drunkenness." The inerrant Bible says "Be not drunk with wine."
And make no mistake: Drunkenness is a sin. It is a scourge on our society. We must sharply rebuke anyone, including the alcohol industry, who minimizes or encourages drunkenness. Our church disciplines people for the sin of drunkenness, and we treat the sin very, very seriously.
However, the sin of drunkenness is similar to the sin of promiscious sex. We don't teach that a man should abstain from sex with his wife because other people are sex addicts. Similarly, we don't teach that individuals MUST abstain from alcohol because some commit the sin of drunkennes.
Likewise we don't DEMAND that those who are single get married, or those who choose to abstain from alcohol drink. Some things are matters of personal conviction and conscience. The pastor's job is not to force those who use sex properly, or alcohol properly, to abstain from either because some others cannot control the lusts of their wicked hearts, but rather, the pastor's job is to teach the Bible and urge God's people to live by Biblical principles.
I have never tasted beer. But I play golf every Friday with some wonderful men from my church that enjoy a glass of beer after the round. I don't condemn them for drinking beer and they don't condemn me for not drinking beer. And they don't get drunk.
There have been three people in our church in the last fifteen years, only three, who have undergone loving church discipline for the sin of drunkenness. All three people must now be --- by their personal choice and their corresponding accountability to our church --- absolute tea totalers. They have shown their inability to control their appetite for alcohol. Their drunkenness is a dishonor to the Christ who has saved them and a shame to the body of believers with whom they have joined. Their conduct has been a breach of our church covenant which forbids drunkenness.
Fortunately, the grace of God is apparent in all three and they willingly accepted the counsel of their families and pastors and agreed wholeheartedly that abstinence is now a requirement in their lives. If they drink, we all identify it as sin for them and immediately confront them. Yet, they understand abstinence is not demanded from others in the church.
Alcohol and the Bible
I believe one of the reasons Southern Baptists love to point to the act of drinking an alcoholic beverage as a sin in itself is because it is an action they can easily avoid and feel comfortable in their own self-righteousness. In fact, one messenger from Texas stated during the debate on the resolution that every Christian must ABSTAIN in order to be holy. Really?
The Bible teaches that claiming the righteousness of Christ is one's only hope of salvation. He is our holiness. We have His righteousness by faith. Imputed righteousness, of course, is not a license to sin, but the inspired Word of God never equates drinking an alcoholic beverage with sin. Drunkenness is the sin, according to God's word.
In fact, the Bible says wine was given by God for man's enjoyment. The Psalmist says that God gave wine to make men glad (Ps. 104:15). Jesus did not preach against the use of wine; instead he did like most other Jews of his day. He drank wine in moderation. In ancient times it was normally diluted with water for drinking purposes, but it was one of the principal beverages in Palestine at that time—as it is today-and it was, and is, alcoholic.
Jesus’ first miracle was to change water into wine (oinos). On this occasion Christ turned six jars of 20 or 30 gallons each into wine (oinos). This was no small miracle. This wine was of the finest quality— “You have kept the good wine until now” (John 2:10). At such wedding feasts, after people had drunk the better wine, the hosts brought out lesser-quality wines.
Jesus gave a parable involving the fermenting process of oinos in Matt. 9:17. At that time, instead of having metal or glass bottles to enclose wine, the skins of animals were used. The fermentation of the wine would break an old inelastic skin, but it would not break a new stretchable skin.
Another proof that oinos is fermented wine is the fact that the apostle Paul said, “Be not drunk with wine [oinos]” (Eph. 5:18). Paul did not mean to avoid getting drunk on grape juice! Paul instructed Timothy, “Drink no longer water, but use a little wine [oinos] for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities” (1 Tim. 5:23). He said to use only a little wine, not a whole lot. The purpose of this wine was Timothy’s frequent stomach ailments; small amounts of wine can help some stomach problems.
Some of the Corinthian Christians were getting drunk at the Lord's Supper (1 Cor. 11:21). They were using fermented wine, probably following the example that Paul had set for them. Paul did not tell them that they were using the wrong kind of wine. He simply told them to eat and drink at home, and to participate in the Lord's Supper in a respectful way. In Romans 14:21, Paul says that it is good not to drink wine or eat meat if it offends a weak brother. He is referring to fermented wine; grape juice wouldn't offend anyone. The implication is that there's nothing wrong with the wine in itself.
Drunkenness Condemned in Scripture
Both the Old and New Testaments contain many examples and commands against excessive use of alcohol and drunkenness. Drunkenness is listed as one of the works of the flesh (Gal. 5:21). That means it is the result of the undisciplined, indiscriminate use of alcohol. Jesus warned his followers not to be drunk (Luke 21:34).
The apostle Paul told the Corinthian church to “put away from among yourselves”—to have no fellowship—with a person who cannot control his or her drinking (1 Cor. 5:11-13). This refers to people who will not face up to or try to overcome drinking problems, not people who are working on and overcoming their problems. The Bible says that drunkards will not enter the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9-10, Gal. 5:21). No one who abuses alcohol should be ordained an elder in the ministry of Jesus Christ (1 Tim. 3:3, 8, Tit. 1:7). If a minister drinks, it should be in moderation.
Wine Used in the Conversion of a Sinner
The following story is a beautiful narrative of reconciliation, conversion, and ultimate redemption --- all initiated because of a glass of wine.
Years ago a man came into our services and sat through the preaching time weeping. He was a wealthy, high profile business man who had just gone through a heartwrenching divorce because of his own indiscretions.
After the service he introduced himself to me and set up an appointment to see me for some counseling. This began a six month pastoral relationship with this man that eventually led him to an understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the ultimate experience of Divine forgiveness.
All that was now needed was reconciliation with his wife. He asked if I would counsel them. I said I would, but when he requested his wife to come with him to see me, she said, "No. He's a Baptist preacher. All he will do is condemn me."
The businessman was crushed. I asked him why his wife was so hostile about Baptist preachers. He told me she grew up Roman Catholic and the only time she ever attended a Baptist Church the preacher yelled and screamed about the sins of the people in the pews including drinking, going to movies, wearing short skirts and long hair, etc . . . and it turned her off from "the Baptist religion."
I suggested that rather than have her come to my office that the man might want to see if his ex-wife (a divorce had since occurred) would have my wife and I over for dinner, just to get acquainted. To his surprise, she agreed.
To our surprise she was a gourmet chef. We entered the lovely home with the smell of French bread wafting in the air, and sat at the table meticulously crafted for a true dining experience.
Unfortunately, though the introductions were cordial, I could tell the evening might be a long one because of the chill toward this "Baptist preacher."
As we sat down, I noticed the brilliant table settings, the scrumptiously prepared French gourmet meal, and the solemn expression on the woman's face.
I also noticed there was tea and water on the table.
So this Baptist pastor said, "You can't have a meal like this without wine. Where is the wine?"
I wish you could have seen her expression. She smiled and warmly said, "But I thought you were a Baptist preacher."
"I am," was my response, "And this Baptist preacher knows a great chef when he sees one, and no chef worth her salt would prepare a meal like this without wine."
She asked my wife and I to follow her as she took us down to the cellar. She was a wine collector and she proudly showed us her collection, passed down to her by her grandfather. She meticulously chose a bottle of wine for the occasion and we made our way back to the table.
I led us in prayer and we thanked God for the food and the drink and His provision for us. We ate a wonderful meal and I enjoyed a glass of wine. Nobody around the table had more than two glasses.
To make a long story short, the walls that had hindered the relationship came down. We enjoyed the evening with the couple and as a result five things happened:
(1). I was able to lead this woman to faith in Jesus Christ, showing her that Christ alone provided the righteousness she needed, and that she must forsake any trust in her own "self-righteousness." She trusted Him and was baptized shortly thereafter.
(2). It was my privilege to perform the private ceremony where wedding vows were exchanged again and this man and woman were reunited in marriage.
(3). The couple became very active in our church and have led out in our outreach of the lost in our community through Sunday School.
(4). They have personally given tens of thousands of dollars to the Lord's work through our church and Christian school, and have personally been able to lead several of their own family members to faith in Christ.
(5). They still have their wine collection, but have never been drunk since giving their lives to Christ as Lord.
Now, I ask this simple question to my Southern Baptist friends. What, if anything, is wrong with the events just described to you?
I am convinced that we Southern Baptists have for too long avoided teaching our children the principles of God's Word, and instead, substituted a system of religious morality that is often contradictory to the Bible, and therefore, when kids leave Southern Baptists homes they go off the deep end into addictions, rather than live their lives in the enjoyment of the things of God within the parameters established by God.
I have heard the argument before that "Even if one person becomes a drunk then I will abstain from alcohol because of it." The power of the gospel is absolutely lost in that kind of thinking. The drunk is a drunk because of the sin in his soul. His soul is transformed by the gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit, not by observing cultural prohibitions of a Southern Baptist. Christians around the world drink beer and wine without getting drunk. It doesn't hurt their witness. It seems the only weaker brothers I keep running into are Southern Baptist pastors who "stumble" when they see a Christian drinking wine. We Southern Baptist pastors claim to believe the Bible, but I sometimes wonder what Bible it is we are reading.
Let's teach the Bible. Let's proclaim the gospel. Let's focus on the essentials.
There is a lost world out there. It's time Southern Baptists were known for the transforming power of Christ rather than are cultural prohibitions.
In His Grace,
Wade


125 Comments:
Folks,
This is why I am honored and thankful to call Wade my pastor and friend. Cant wait to see him when he gets back home.
Steve
When I heard of this and then the reaction to Tom Ascol's proposed resolution I was struck by the illogical thinking of the Convention today. They said that lapsed church members are our greatest prospect for evangelism (so much for having a regenerate church membership) while making abstinence a test of fellowship and the providers of alcholic beverages the enemy-the very people whom we should be evangelizing.
Simply amazing.
I'm reminded of the Corban rule and the way Jesus responded. Who really needs a stronger sense of Baptist identity, the M's on the mission field or the 75 percent of the Convention who voted not to consider Tom's resolution and the percent of the Convention who voted to affirm this one?
In all of this, however, Brother Wade, my pastor leaned over yesterday @ the Founders Breakfast and asked me to tell him about the CP. I spent quite a while explaining it to him, and there is real hope that we will be joining the SBC, which, as you know, I deeply desire for our church. This has been an odd Convention, but there is hope, and while I can't give them as good a report as I hoped, I think I can give them them a better report than I would have been able to give in recent years past.
You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'
Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into a man's mouth does not defile him, but what comes out of his mouth, that is what defiles him.
Nothing that enters a man's mouth can defile the man. Nothing.
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
I wish everyone had as much exegetical sense on this matter as you do.
Wade,
Does anyone realize that because of your pledge and the resolution that you and all SBC Trustees are breaking fellowship with Baptist around the world? As an IMB missionary that has lived overseas for two decades I have often taken the Lord’s Supper in national Baptist Churches. They use wine, not grape juice. No SBC trustee will be able to take communion with fellow Baptist. Does this mean that our IMB missionaries will no longer be able to take communion with fellow Baptists?
Robertson_Alexander
anonymous_imbmissionary@hotmail.com
Wade,
I would like to thank you for responding to, and soundly refuting, the illogical, and often unbiblical, thinking of many in our convention but doing so with a gracious and God-honoring spirit. Despite many of the possibly well-intentioned but misplaced and inaccurate accusations that have been leveled against you over the last several months, you have retained a very loving and gentle attitude (as has been apparent through your comments in various venues). This is the type of Spirit that was displayed by many great Christian leaders of the past, and it is a spirit that truly brings glory to our Sovereign God.
It is truly refreshing to find a like-minded brother who is not seeking his own advancement and comfort, but rather seeking to call our brethren back to the Scriptures as the basis for all that pertains to life and godliness. Often doing so at great personal costs.
May God richly bless and keep you.
Mike
I'm glad to see Wade stand up for what scripture requires from us, rather than the twisted imposition of culture upon scripture that the total abstinence position represents.
jim
This was one great blog...thanks for sharing from the heart, your experience, and your witness. Thanks so much...Wayne, from Alabama
Wade,
I'm sure you'll have some who don't agree, but I just want to thank you for your biblical perspective. One of the biggest issues that Christians face today is building relationships with the lost. You did not allow a man made tradition to become a stumbling block and because of your obedience, the Lord reconciled this couple and continues to use them for His glory.
Much of what I've seen at the convention has been encouraging, however, much of what I've seen leaves me shaking my head. Will we fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith before it's too late for the SBC?
Grace,
Jeff Parsons
Thank you for sharing this, Pastor Wade. It is very helpful to me. Personally I have never touched alcohol (unless you count the occasional small helping of nyquil liquid medication in the past). This is a personal choice from my childhood. I simply don't trust myself to be responsible with alcoholic beverages so I choose to refrain altogether.
Interestingly, my denomination demands total abstinence from all of its credentialed ministers. They even ask the question on the yearly quesiontaire they send out to renew credentials. While it has never been an issue for me due to my own choices, I do wonder about the biblical justification for the stance. Your blog helps to process it a bit. I appreciate your distinction between the scriptural forbidding of drunkenness as opposed to forbidding partaking of any wine at all. I have had people tell me that the wine that Jesus and the disciples consumed was not wine at all and that it was grape juice, or at best a milder form of wine with less alcohol content. I think this is disingenuous, given the extensive biblical warnings about drunkeness. In any event, I just wanted to point out that SBC is not the only denomination wrestling with this and a number of other issues you have noted on your blog. I think this is why outsiders like me are taking an interest. It gives us a broader perspective from which to view our own denominational issues. Thanks again for sharing. :)
Blessings,
Glen Woods
Can you come teach a class about this at Southern Seminary? Please?
God's people have no business having anything to do with alcohol.
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/should-biblechurches-abstinance.html
Wade, You put your finger right on the issue.....SIN and its power.
Jesus warned against the leaven of the Saducees AND the Pharisees.....neither the errors of Liberalism nor Legalism can adequately deal with the power of SIN....the Liberal answer to the power of SIN is to compromise with it by tacitly accepting its power as inevitable and the message is do the best you can.
The Legalistic answer to the power of SIN is to eliminate it, legislate it out of existence because of its inevitable power to control.
THANKFULLY there is another option; allowing the Holy Spirit to replace the power of SIN with the HIS power of HOLY LOVE!
Both erroneous extremes are attempts to cope with that which is humanly impossible to cope with....which is why THE SAVIOR is needed by all.
Unfortunately, Baptists have a blind spot about where SIN gets its power...we are in such a state that we are trying to "legal beagle" it out of our corporate lives, yet, SIN gets its power FROM THE LAW!! This is equivalent to trying to put out a fire with gasoline!! This is why the legalistic approach won't work in concrete reality...and why lost people are intuitively turned off by the censorious lovelessness that gets spouted as hypocrisy masquerades as love...they may be lost but they're not stupid!
This is also how hypocrisy starts; which is solidly condemned in Romans chptr. 2
The KEY CRITICAL ISSUE we are facing as a Convention is how will we deal with the power of SIN. Will we ignore our propensity toward living life in a spiritual subterranean slum of trying to outlaw it, thus insuring SIN continues to control? Or will we recognize our inability to counter the power of SIN and allow the love of God to be shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit?
Maybe we need to discover the book of Romans all over.....
Wade,
I concur with all you have said about drinking and drunkenness from a scriptural perspective.
For me, the matter of drinking is like the matter of eating that Paul addressed in 1 Corinthians 14. I do not condemn you for drinking. I do not sense that you condemn those who chose not to drink.
Yet, verses 19-23 is my absolute guide. I want to do what leads to peace and and to mutual edification. A great disappointment in my life would be to know that while I might exercise a freedom in Christ, I would destroy the work of God for the sake of drinking a glass of wine with a meal. I do take verse 21 seriously when it says is better "to not eat meat or drink wine or to do anyting else that will cause your brother to fall. (NIV)"
You have chosen to make known what you believe about this matter to others. When I preach, I preach just what the Scriptures reveal about both drinking and the sin of drunkenness. Yet, I know there are those in my congregation and especially lost persons in my town who believe wholeheartedly it is wrong for me to drink, no matter what freedom I personally may find in Christ. Paul hits the nail on the head when he says, "and everything that does not come from faith is sin." There are just too many who cannot drink any alcoholic beverage without it being sin for them. Thus, I cannot risk drinking, buying alcoholic beverage, or having alcoholic beverage in my home because some one who cannot raise a glass of wine in faith would be tempted to sin if they found me doing it or having that kind of beverage in my home.
So, for me, it does not matter what freedom I may find in Christ in this matter. My life is not adversely affected by not drinking. I hope you never find out that what you have so publically revealed about your personal freedom in Christ will cause someone to stumble.
Sincerely,
Jim Kirkland
To Anonymous:
Huh? I have plenty of ears, but not much white matter I suppose. Who is the audience of your prophetic utterance? Wade? Other posters? The SBC? To which is a hypocrite? Those who believe and practice the Word of God or practice the traditions of men? Your message is so general, it is hard to dicipher. The prophets were never unspecific, as they called the unrepentant by name, and were not anonymous for all to see. They never hid behind a cloak, and often paid for thier hard messages. How about you?
Rob Ayers
Mr. Anonymous.
I could not post your comment. However, don't be silly, marijuana is illegal and a crime. We discipline for the use of illicit drugs. Someone in our church who uses marijuana is confronted and if there is no repentance, eventually removed.
Rob,
Forgive me but you make no sense. I have no idea what you are saying
Mr. Alexandar,
If I am overseas I will never refuse communion with a brother in Christ. I would argue that is not covered by the resolution.
Why did John the Baptist not drink wine? And why did the Lord tell Zechariah that John should never drink wine or other fermented drink?
Wade,
You have portrayed exactly what I experienced as a young person growing up in a Southern Baptist Church. As young adults, my wife and I chose to leave the Baptist church because we were made to feel like hypocrites for taking an occasional social drink. We have been very active with another denomination for over 30 years before we began attending your church and worshiping with you and your congregation.
I support your position 100%.
One of your Friday golfing buddies
Excellent application of the Gospel, Wade. Thank you for this thoughtful post.
I am currently listening to the closing message of the SBC. Are you listening? Not trying to put words in the speaker's mouth, but he just made it sound like we could baptize more if we didn't spend so much time blogging.
I now feel guilty because I was reading your blog while I listened to this.
Pastor Wade,
I agree whole heartedly with your biblical stand on alcohol. For me not to drink is, like you said, a personal conviction. I choose not to drink because my family has seen the effects of alcohol abuse. It leaves deep scars that can only be healed by Christ. I thank you for your clear interpretation of God's Holy Word. My other reason why I don't drink is because in this country it would be a stumbling block to many. In other countries there is not as much of a stigma on alcohol and would be a stumbling block if I didn't drink.
amen and amen. Oh, now i'm a lush. But seriously, what a wonderful, well thought out post about alcohol. I'm convinced that most legalistic rules are about pride and self-righteousness, as you eloquently stated in your post. I appreciate your honesty, conviction, and biblical analysis. Legalists save themselves, and such is contrary to the gospel.
From a Ctholic to A Protestant...good post.
I am a 52 year old Baptist pastor who had just about given up on the SBC. Now I am seeing some hope. I was raised in an independent Baptist Church where women could not speak, shave, wear makeup or teach boys over 12. I once found a great SBC pastor with an incredible sweet spirit and he taught me about grace and love. However, he is now on the "attack everyone bandwagon"
I have never met Brother Wade, but I will say that I would love to have him for a pastor and/or serve on his staff.
God Bless You Brother, don't let the persecution get to you. Protect your wife at all cost. Answer to God and Him alone. Live in peace
Wade and all,
Just wanted to make everyone aware of some excellent additional discussion
taking place - especially my part of it :) - concerning this timely subject you've raised.
If interested, go to www.BaptistLife.Com and simply click on (1) "Forums", then (2) "SBC News & Views." It's the thread entitled "Tom Ascol, Calvinists, and Social Drinking...", or something close to that.
Carry on,
Mark R.
Oops...correction:
The thread from BaptistLife.Com that I referenced earlier is entitled "Tom Ascol, Ben Cole, Calvists, and Social Drinking."
(Sorry about that.)
Thanks,
Mark
Well written and well argued. Most of all, based on good exegesis of the Scriptures as opposed to our traditional teachings on the issue. And, if you'll pardon me, it was refreshing to read that from an SBC pastor. Too many of the ones I've known and heard over the years have confused personal convictions on the issue for Scripture.
To my fellow Baptist preachers who so frequently say that we must preach the whole Bible and do what it says, I offer Proverbs 31:6, 7: "Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more." Go ahead. Look it up. I had to. Perhaps at our next block party, we ought to offer free beer instead of cold water. After all, that's what the Bible says! It's scriptural! Let me say, since you don't know me, that I don't seriously advocate this but . . . And then again, maybe we are a little more selective in what we believe then we've like to admit. Oops. I think I just left the subject and went to meddling. Anyway, good job.
Wade:
I agree with your blog about wine.
I am at about the 99.9% abstinance level on alcohol myself.
However, I did get drunk one time. This was when I had a very bad chest cold. A lady at the church told my wife to give me brandy and this would help clear up the problem. I guess she was supposed to give me a tablespoon full. Instead, she gave me half of the bottle. I was stoned!
Whatever this was it was not "social" drinking.
We do use wine once in a while in cooking when we make Chicken Chaccatori but I guess the alcohol is all burned off before we serve it from the oven. If you come over to our place you would see a couple of wine bottles on the top shelf that we use in cooking.
Roger Simpson
Oklahoma City OK
Wade:
You know I agree with you 100% on the alcohol matter.
Now on to blogging .... did you catch that gratuitous slam at bloggers in Dr. Welch's sermon?
Waddya wanna bet that Dr. Page doesn't say anything REMOTELY like THAT, next year. Thank goodness, lest THAT be the subject of another "eligibility motion".
That story is truly an awesome example of God using you to tear down all the barriers that we put up in front of people to keep them from the gospel. I have had three sips of alcohol in my life, but I would hope I would have the ability to act with the grace you did. I enjoyed the short conversation we had Monday before the Young Leaders Summit. I hope your sons headache got better! May God keep blessing you greatly in your work and ministry. You are being prayed for.
Interpreting the Bible on this complex issue seems to me to center on whether we emphasize passages that directly indicate that Jesus and the Apostles permitted consumption of alcohol or passages that have to be generalized to be seen as prohibiting alcohol consumption. I cannot see any justification for giving more emphasis to passages that must be generalized than to passages that deal very specifically with the matter in question. Jesus did not view providing large quantities of wine for a wedding party as causing the weak to stumble. Therefore, I am not sure how we can justify generalizing Paul's warnings about causing the weak to stumble to preclude alcohol consumption by Christians.
The personal experience Wade related about the family he was able to reach by sharing wine rather than condemning it is a perfect illustration of the fact that we must be sensitive to the needs of those we encounter in order to prevent them from stumbling. Condemning or condoning consumption can cause stumbling, depending on the persons with whom we are dealing. God never promised life would be simple!
Recent events in Greensboro suggest to me that enough of our SBC brothers and sisters are reading and talking about blogs that issues such as this one can actually be debated and decided on the merits of careful biblical interpretation. It gives me hope that disagreements on other non-essentials can be aired in such a way that those who have been "certain" of their positions will be able to see that others can make equally good or better cases from the Bible for a contrary position. If we are the people we should be, this will lead to greater unity (though not immediate uniformity) as we all search the scriptures day by day to determine which things are true. Perhaps we will even be able to accept, along with Paul, that there is much about which we cannot be and need not be certain on this side of Glory. The Bible permits certainty with regard to the essentials, but it seems to purposely leave room for different views on many issues. Maybe to keep us humble and to prevent us from focusing on less important matters?
WADE,
You are so FULL of GRACE and TRUTH. I thank GOD for your stand for GOD'S WORD (TRUTH).
Why do such narrow-minded people want to ADD TO and TAKE AWAY from the BIBLE.
May GOD continue to BLESS YOU and YOUR'S.
In response to Mr. Hasse I would say that he should be careful when he abrogates the Word of God as written in Deuteronomy 14:22-26. Surely these commandments about tithing were written to "God's people", Israel. If it was acceptable, at the command of the Lord, to consume strong drink (not just wine), why would Mr. Haase make such a pronouncement?
There is an easier argument to condemn the crosses that we have mounted in our sanctuaries as graven images than to condemn touching alcohol. However, our Southern Baptist tradition is to have crosses and not touch alcohol. Not that I agree with removing the crosses, but Packer makes some good points in Knowing God.
In regards to the weaker brother argument, how many are concerned about offending the weaker brother when it comes to going out to eat on Sunday after church. There ARE some people that strongly believe you shouldn't. I have some friends who won't eat out on Sunday. But they'll buy a tank of gasoline. I guess you've got to pull the ox out of the ditch.
In summary, if you take a good thing (not drinking) and make it a requirement for "spirituality" apart from a command from the Bible, then you have just made it a lie from hell. It just diverts attention from the Gospel: God in His grace has given His Son to take His judgement away from me, so that I can be viewed by God as righteous. By faith, I trust the FINISHED work of the Son. It is in this that God changes my heart and makes me righteous in His eyes. Does a drink of alcohol or a Sunday dinner out change that? NO! Does God rejoice that I don't drink? No, He is pleased that I know Him (Jeremiah 9).
Wade,
I can't get away from Proverbs 20:1. "Wine is a mocker.... " I am not going to give the liquor industry a chance to mock me or one of my loved ones. Wisdom tells me to stay away. I Corinthians 10:23 also tells me that not everything we are free to do in Christ is spiriturally profitable or edifying. I do, however, agree with your example of the lady you led to Christ and the example of one of the bloggers taking the Lord's Supper.
I pray for my 6 children that God would bless them with wisdom, knowledge, discernment, and understanding. Except for the rare occasions, like those that have been chronicled in your blog, I teach my children that drinking wine is not the wisest or most dicerning choice. Strong drink is not up for discussion in my understanding of the scripture.
I thank you for your article and while I agree with the over riding principle of our freedom in Christ, I believe and teach my teenage and adult children that abstinence is the wisest choice, but a glass of wine is not a sin.
Thanks for letting me share!
Spriggs8
Great Post Brother Wade.
And exactly how I have read the scripture. Am not sure how my pastor feels.
I'm an Enid girl raised in the Wesleyan Church but married a Texan and now I sit under Mark Estep here in Houston at Spring Baptist.
I have really enjoyed 'getting to know you' through your blog.
THank you for your stands on behalf of a lot of us in the SBC!
I'll have to visit Emmanuel next time I'm visiting the folks (who by the way now go to Family Fellowship which is Christian Union in doctrine I believe).
In HIM <>< Denise
Wade:
While I appreciate your blog, how could you ever drink with lost people as if there were nothing wrong with it? I have crack smoking addicts across the parking lot of my church everyday that I share Christ with and I've never asked where the pipe was so we could share it! It sounds as if you were the one who initiated the wish to drink. Why? To make the man feel at ease? To soften the Gospel's blow? The Gospel is offensive. It should convict. For more info I suggest you order Dr. Johnny Hunt's "Why I Don't Drink Alcohol" CD. It is worth listening to. God bless.
Wade,
This is my first time to write although I Have been reading your blog for a few months. I deeply appreciate the balance of scholarship and spirit you bring to your blog. This is an excellent post you have written; insightful, biblical and refreshing on a subject that desperately needs clear instruction as you have provided. I hope you get some rest from the Convention prior to this coming Lord's day.
Your position is scripturally correct...
...but because of the legalists in the SBC...
...you are forever branded...
Personally I like being branded as a Bible believing Christian, and have been for more than 50 years.
Ditto, Scripture Searcher!
Gordan" left this comment in one of our articles on the SBC @ Strange Baptist Fire:
In my county we have a dry Sunday morning, in which no alcohol may be sold before noon. Traditionally, this has meant that the Baptists buy their beer on Saturday afternoon.
Dr. Gary North once suggested that if we really want Baptists involved in the pro-life movement, then we should spread the rumor that abortion clinics give each patient a post-operative glass of wine.
Cheers.
Y'know...he has a point. I know many who won't go with us to the abortion clinic to preach but will demand that nobody take a drink, even in the privacy of their own home.
"Taboo or Not Taboo?" - Chuck Swindoll preached a message using that very title probably twenty years ago. A great sermon because it was Biblical,Accurate, Relevant, and even Evangelistic.
As strong (versus weak) believers, we must use Godly judgement and discernment in whatever we do. I want to be a 10/31 man of God. "So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God" (I Cor. 10:31).
Good post, Wade.
Concerned pastor, it is not acceptable to take a legal thing like drinking alcohol, and equate it with something illegal like smoking crack. Also, you have to jump through exegetical hoops to find that interpretation in Scripture given the fact that our Lord provided wine for those people (with whom He is at the wedding) who were and were becoming drunk.
How drunk does one have to get before it becomes a sin? Falling down drunk? Just a little tipsy? Sluring a word or two? A little light headed? or Drunk enough to come home and smack the wife around a little?
I'm curious how you know when you're drunk enough that it is a sin that needs forgiveness?
I'm the first person to laugh and scowl anytime some lefty-extremist compares Christians in America to the Taliban, but this gnosticism that is prevailing in the Southern Baptist church, and many other protestant American churches, and what results from that Gnosticism, is really making it hard to defend them. These fundamentalists are really getting too close for comfort.
To teach that alcohol is evil in and of itself is not biblical, or logical, and is foreign to traditional, orthodox Christianity.
Troy Hasse: "God's people have no business having anything to do with alcohol."
Intersting. What do you have to say about the fact that Jesus blessed, and drank, wine?
I would really encourage folks to get a copy of the late Adrian Roger's sermon on social drinking. It's available at the "Love Worth Finding" site.
I've heard people use other countries as examples of social drinking being normal and acceptable, yet if you look at the spiritual condition of those countries you will see that, except for small pockets of believers, that Christianity is basically non-existent there.
Mr. Anonymous,
Only a sober man knows his need of forgiveness. We confront, discuss, urge repentance, and follow through with accountability with a sober man. We do not cast pearls before swine. Drunkenness is not hard to identify, particularly for any of us who have worked with homeless or street people.
In His Grace,
wade
Wade
As usual, good responses. It is amazing when you use the bible as your guide how man's restrictions really conflict. I believe wine was and is wine. John the baptist may how been a teetoteler but JESUS who gave HIS life for us (not John) was declared a glutton and wine bibber. I personally don't drink alchohol, I have in the past but by my own choice don't. My wife is a teetotaler and feels the evils of mankind is caused by alcohol. It does "pain" me to hear pastors rant about wine and try to say it was always grape juice. At pentcost was it grape juice that people thought was consumed/ I don't think so. All this hubbard around you is allowing biblical issues to be brought to the front in our lifes.You have met the test and passed with flying colors. I am proud of you and I believe the HOLY SPIRIT is also pleased. Continue with GOS's blessings
Charlie of Gainesville
Wade, you are on! Steve McKoy has a similar post at his blog.
Anonynous quoted the scripture in Proverbs in regards that "wine is a mocker..." I must remind that writer that Solomon wrote this scripture not as a command, but a wisdom. Just as he wrote, "train up a child in the way he shoud go..."
Wade's exegisis is beyond question. Let's not isegete what is not in the scripture.
I choose not to behave like "the world". Christ has called us to be strangers in a weary land holding forth a better way of life.
When you drink, for whatever reason you have lowered the standard of Christ.
To win someone with the argument of participation is nonsense. Why not tell the same truth, "I choose not to indulge." Rather than participate with the act that has even now harmed weaker brothers. Shame on you.
Rember, my warning from a couple of blogs ago?
Pastor you are arrogant and puffed up with yoiur OWN press(blog).
May God proyect your family and you from the sin that is so rapidly coming upon you.
You have little appreciation for the men who had alcohol issue settled by, "abstinance". God help you.
Pastor Dave
Romans 12:1-2
Wade,
I agree with your biblical perspective. I am an ex-alcoholic that God delivered. I am now a church planter. I would never personally take another sip. I would never encourage someone else to try it for the sake of liberty. I have been there and wish no one else the pain. You never know when the point is that a drink turns into drunkedness. I can't explain it, but it sometimes just hits you and different people can drink different amounts and not be drunk. So be careful. Not from a legalistic sense, but why drink in the first place? I found no enjoyment from it unless I could get drunk. Maybe that was the unredeemed me, but I would never want to take the chance on someone else. I would never condem someone for taking a drink. Maybe I am the weaker brother you talked about, but I never know who is in the kingdom and who is not. I do believe that God can overcome alcohol in someone's life because I am a living testimony.
I do understand and agree with your point on scripture.
Wade-
In honor of your blog design, I think we should all join Don Ho singing, "Tiny bubbles in the wine..."
First, I grew up in a home where alcohol was merely part of "my culture". My unbelieving father (now a believer) DID NOT drink. My mother, who I consider the reason I grew up a Christian and with knowledge of Christ, enjoyed a glass of wine with her meal and with her friends. I never saw her drunk and she never had more than one or two glasses.
I also enjoy a drink every now and again. There is a line between sober and drunkness.
Regardless, Jesus drank wine folks. He made water into wine, drank the wine, and blessed wine. You can't get around it. I don't think anyone should violate their consciences but at the same time, don't condemn your brother or sister who's conscience permits it. I would never drink in front of someone who felt it wrong. But I ask they do not doubt my love of God because I don't have a problem with it.
As for the comment about countries who drink and their level of spirituality, that's a non sequiter. That's like saying that because there's a drought it must be due to people making wheels. You're drawing conclusions based on no actual causal evidence (you see lots of people making wheels, you see it hasn't rained, you assume a relationship).
Jesus drank wine with sinners, so who are we to think we're more holy than Him?
Very well put Wade. The only thing I question is your statement that "Jesus drank wine." Logically, taking Jewish customs into consideration, we might conclude this. But Biblically,can we truly say that Jesus drank wine as God's Word does not say that he did?
Wade,
As a 30 year old pastor who has grown up in the SBC, allow me to say thanks.
The emperor has on no clothes!
Thanks for pointing that out.
Steve.
Brother Wade,
I applaud your courage and determination to live and minister according to the clear teaching of the inspired word of Truth.
Self righteousness is always wrong and sinful, even with the best intentions.
I could not agree more with your statement that Biblical exegesis is lacking in Southern Baptist pulpits.
The drinking of strong drink is only one of dozens of attempts of self righteous men to also put others in the yoke of bondage.
Paul said "...that you may grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Chirst." The sort of leagalism practiced by some shows clearly the need to do what Paul suggested. Only when we start to grasp the vastness of the grace of God do we discover the freedom to forsake man made rules.
Godspeed,
Royce Ogle
Monroe, LA
Craig from Georgia,
You seem to imply that the cause of the spiritual condition of other countries is the use of alcohol. However, when one looks at America, what do we blame our spiritual condition on? Let's get even closer...what do we as Southern Baptists blame our spiritual condition on? We can't find over half our members...is that the fault of alcohol? Our sexual sins are overwhelming (divorce, adultery, pornography)...is that the fault of alcohol? The conservative resurgence has not resulted in greater numbers of salvation/baptism...is that the fault of alcohol? We have wars within the camp (Calvinism, IMB, NAMB)...is that the fault of alcohol? Too many of our churches don't baptize even one person a year...is that alcohol's fault?
I'm by no means a pessimist...I think some of our greatest days are ahead as Southern Baptists. While I abstain and believe that to do so is a wise choice, I'd rather have a wine-drinking, sold out, soul winning, Bible believing, self-denying, cross-carrying, commandment-following Christian than what too many times passes as Christianity where we don't drink, cuss, smoke, etc. but we're empty of the power of God because we glory in our self-righteousness instead of the righteousness of Christ. It's always been interesting to me that Southern Baptists seem to quickly attack the easily visible sins while, to at least some degree, ignoring the sins of the heart. Why not say that any trustee who is coveting cannot serve? committed adultery in his/her heart? has bitterness toward a fellow believer? uses course language, jests, jokes?
zaac,
Matthew 26:27-29
27And he took a cup of wine and gave thanks to God for it. He gave it to them and said, “Each of you drink from it, 28for this is my blood, which seals the covenant ◙ between God and his people. It is poured out to forgive the sins of many. 29Mark my words—I will not drink wine again until the day I drink it new with you in my Father’s Kingdom.”
Matthew 11:18-19
18For John the Baptist didn’t drink wine and he often fasted, and you say, ‘He’s demon possessed.’ 19And I, the Son of Man, feast and drink, and you say, ‘He’s a glutton and a drunkard, and a friend of the worst sort of sinners!’ But wisdom is shown to be right by what results from it.”
WADE,
It's so sad so many people posting here and on other BLOG'S that don't KNOW or walk with the SPIRIT. If people walked with the SPIRIT, they would be corrected by the SPIRIT, AND THEY WOULD KNOW or SEEK GOD'S WORD. This is why the CHURCHES need to have and practice discipline.
JESUS said, "YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN"
May GOD continue to BLESS YOU and YOUR'S
Wade,
It is great to hear a recognizable leader in the SBC articulate this position. I am from OK, not far from Enid, in Tonkawa, but now I serve as a Worship and Small group pastor in Illinois. I used to drink in college, but gave it up for the love of my wife, who was unsure about it. I was pres. of my BCM in college at NOC in tonkawa, and it broke my heart to see the lost who so desperately needed Christ being reffered to by the "Christians" in the bible studies as "Those pe